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Luckers

Perrin's Arc

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Perrin's unhealed wound is a bit worrisome.

 

That would be the wound from the arrow that killed Hopper. The only other wounds that don't heal are Rand's, and those from Myrddraal blades. Yet I expect the Wise One who healed him would have noticed a tainted wound.

 

Actually, it's not. Verin tells Egwene in TDR when she gives her the Dream ter'angreal that getting hurt in T'A'R can be bad, and shows her a scar that she said didn't heal properly, because of some property of T'A'R. It's not necessarily some uber-bad thing. :)

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I am not a huge fan of Graendal in this book.

 

The whole Dreamspike idea was awesome, and I loved Slayers role in the book. But wouldnt it have been easier for her to just Travel into Perrins tent while he slept, fireballed him or whatever, and then got out of there? All it would take is five seconds. Heck, she doesnt even have to do it herself. A male channeler was bringing in the Trollocs; should have just used him. Or a bunch of Black Ajah. In, fireball, out. And if its Black Ajah, who cares if they get caught, Perrin is still dead. I liked Perrins ploitline and the Trolloc fight was awesome, but it just seems rather.. pointless when there are much easier ways to kill someone.

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I am not a huge fan of Graendal in this book.

 

The whole Dreamspike idea was awesome, and I loved Slayers role in the book. But wouldnt it have been easier for her to just Travel into Perrins tent while he slept, fireballed him or whatever, and then got out of there? All it would take is five seconds. Heck, she doesnt even have to do it herself. A male channeler was bringing in the Trollocs; should have just used him. Or a bunch of Black Ajah. In, fireball, out. And if its Black Ajah, who cares if they get caught, Perrin is still dead. I liked Perrins ploitline and the Trolloc fight was awesome, but it just seems rather.. pointless when there are much easier ways to kill someone.

 

It was a rather lame plan from someone who is meant to be so devious. I got the feeling Slayer didn't really give a hundred percent. Also how come he got off scott free? Also what was the point of Greandal in this book? Moggie could of done what she done and it would of side stepped the whole compulsion thing with Aran'gar and Delana.

 

Where is Moggie? I miss her. :wub:

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I am not a huge fan of Graendal in this book.

 

The whole Dreamspike idea was awesome, and I loved Slayers role in the book. But wouldnt it have been easier for her to just Travel into Perrins tent while he slept, fireballed him or whatever, and then got out of there? All it would take is five seconds. Heck, she doesnt even have to do it herself. A male channeler was bringing in the Trollocs; should have just used him. Or a bunch of Black Ajah. In, fireball, out. And if its Black Ajah, who cares if they get caught, Perrin is still dead. I liked Perrins ploitline and the Trolloc fight was awesome, but it just seems rather.. pointless when there are much easier ways to kill someone.

 

Thing is it's almost impossible to kill the three. Moridin already knows this that is why he gave her the dreamspike as an advantage. If you or I were Rand and got attacked by 10 guys... we'd either Inspector Gadget our way through it or learn a hidden skill and win or someone would just happen to be there to help or etc. Fate prevents them from dying. I think that is part of the reason Ishy tries to turn him. We know even when the Dragon turns it's not enough for the DO to break free.

 

Honestly, the way the book is written people around them seem to have the best brought out in them or fill important roles.

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I am terrible with names and do not have the book in front of me.. so I hope you get what I am saying,

 

In the scene where Perrin is fighting Trollocs it mentions the hammer hissing when it touches there skin. I was thinking it is not just power made, but one of the devices like the items that even non chanellers can use. Like it has a little something extra to hit shadowspawn with or something.

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Yeah there's a aiel sept or clan whatever in the blight. That's the blank. Portal stone would be rather disappointing.

Aiel do not have dark eyes. Aiel do not have dark eyes. Aiel do not have dark eyes.

 

 

 

Like the discussion of the dark prophecy. The text is "In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning, and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come. Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself."

 

So who's the Broken Wolf? Well, it's obviously not Perrin, since he's the Blacksmith, and it would be strange to change his title one sentence later. Plus, death hasn't known him. So who are the other candidates?

 

Hopper- fits the first sentence quite well. However, there's no reason for his destruction to bring fear and sorrow to men. Maybe three men in the entire world even knew he was around.

 

Jain- he was broken, and his confrontations in the blight could very well have brought him into contact with Death. As a famous hero, his death would shake the will of humanity, and he was consumed (maybe literally) by/in a tower. However, there's nothing connecting him with wolves that I'm aware of, and most of the world already assumed him dead, so that's not as great a blow as it might have been.

 

Ituralde- has been called the "Little Wolf," and his death would shake humanity. Maybe he's met Death through his constant battles. He seems to fit best, but it strikes me as viscerally wrong.

 

Elyas- Got the wolf part, but that's about it. Not him.

 

 

I think the two reasonable options are Jain and Ituralde. Given the circumstances of Jain's death, and the fact that prophecies given at the end of the books are generally fulfilled within that book (IIRC), I favor Jain.

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I think the two reasonable options are Jain and Ituralde. Given the circumstances of Jain's death, and the fact that prophecies given at the end of the books are generally fulfilled within that book (IIRC), I favor Jain.

 

 

Is still think it's Mat, what with the Odin archetype and all.

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For a moment, after I remembered Ituralde as "the Wolf", I thought maybe that sentence:

"Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself."

actually refers to Ituralde in this very book. He is broken in many ways, he thought his and Arad Doman's end had come, he fell, his stand was consumed. And the men who remained defending Maradon surely were filled with fear, sorrow and had their wills shaken. Anyone else got that idea? Im not so sure about that part but I still mainly believe that it refers to Ituralde. It could maybe be Elyas or Slayer but I don't see how any of their "destruction" could really "bring fear and sorrow [etc...]".

 

I cannot believe the Jain idea, why would he be a "Broken Wolf" plus everyone thinks he's dead already.

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In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning, and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come.

 

To me, that reads like: In that day, when [Mat] travels the halls of [*Finnland], and [Rand] lifts his hand to bring freedom to [The Dark One], the last days of [Perrin's] pride shall come. So, that bit refers to the day when Rand breaks the seals. We don't know precisely when Mat exits the Tower of Ghenjei, but this suggests he's in there on the day Rand travels to Shayol Ghul. The 'last days of pride' could mean many things.

 

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers.

 

No timeframe is given, but 'yea' implies a continuation of the previous one. So this happens after Rand breaks the seals.

 

And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will.

 

It's not definite, but 'he' is likely still referring to the 'Broken Wolf'. Now Moridin has analyzed this prophecy a lot, so I'm inclined to trust his interpretation (somewhat), which makes the 'Broken Wolf' Perrin. Something bad happening to him would definitely shake the hearts of men.

 

Theory Time

 

There's a hint that things may not all be well with Perrin: that unhealed leg wound (ToM, Gateways, pp. 776-777). This is the wound caused by the arrow that killed Hopper (ToM, Darkness in the Tower, p. 585). Recall that it was healed by Masuri (ToM, Wounds, p. 598), who, with Annoura, was secretly meeting with Masema. Curiously, Edarra once stopped Masuri from healing a maiden of the spear, claiming that the wise one Janina was more skilled (KoD, The Last Knot, p. 628). Why would she not have the most skilled healer work on Perrin now?

 

I begin to wonder if Greandal was secretly meant to fail, and that Moridin's intent wasn't to kill Perrin outright, but to cause that wound which would later bring about Perrin's downfall.

 

-- dwn

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Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers.

 

This is somewhat mystifying...It could refer to Ituralde, the "Little Wolf." The "Midnight Towers" imply he would fall to the Seanchan who control the actual Towers of Midnight. With the state of affairs being as it is and the Seanchan expanding towards Arad Doman, it makes some sense. I don't know if he has that big of a role to be mentioned in the Dark Prophecies.

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There's a hint that things may not all be well with Perrin: that unhealed leg wound (ToM, Gateways, pp. 776-777). This is the wound caused by the arrow that killed Hopper (ToM, Darkness in the Tower, p. 585). Recall that it was healed by Masuri (ToM, Wounds, p. 598), who, with Annoura, was secretly meeting with Masema. Curiously, Edarra once stopped Masuri from healing a maiden of the spear, claiming that the wise one Janina was more skilled (KoD, The Last Knot, p. 628). Why would she not have the most skilled healer work on Perrin now?

 

Yeah I was wondering about that wound myself. Seemed like such a throwaway comment that it instantly made me suspicious. It didnt help that I thought he was going to die basically throughout the entire book :P

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I am terrible with names and do not have the book in front of me.. so I hope you get what I am saying,

 

In the scene where Perrin is fighting Trollocs it mentions the hammer hissing when it touches there skin. I was thinking it is not just power made, but one of the devices like the items that even non chanellers can use. Like it has a little something extra to hit shadowspawn with or something.

 

Mjölnir has been imbued with Perrin's resolve and strength. While at ease, the hammer is heavy enough for him to have trouble wielding it in one hand. Even tho the hammer is made completely of steel it feels warm to his touch and grows warmer by his resolve (thinking about the Two Rivers.) The weapon most likely magnifies Perrin's strength while also burning Shadowspawn with his intense hatred for them.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see trollocs flung through the air as blows from Perrin's hammer landed, their bodies enveloped in flames before crashing into their ranks (depending on how much Perrin lets the Wolf take over during combat - thus increasing the weapons might.)

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I would say the wolf is Lan. I know he has never been referred to as that per say, but he has definetly known death in the sense that his family and kingdom are dead and he confronts it basically everyday. His death would be a huge loss for so many of the main characters, the Aiel and the Borderlands in general. To me, he is really the only male (other then the three ta`veren) who fits the role and who has the influence and the prestige for his death to break peoples spirits.

 

So basically...

 

One-eyed Fool - Mat

Fallen Blacksmith - Perrin (although not sure what the Fallen part is referring to?)

First Among Vermin - Rand (he is breaking the seals after all)

Broken Wolf - Lan

Midnight Towers - the Shadow in general, which is what I believe Egwenes dream signifies

Edited by Duskfire

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Very happy with Perrin's arc apart from one point at the very end.

He said he'd look into why portals couldn't be made around Caemlyn, so what does he do? Head's over to the meeting.

Hmm. Did I miss something, or has he overlooked this?

 

/edit:

 

Hmm, they obviously use portals to transport, the spike gets turned off like what Slayer did to force the trap?

Edited by lazarian

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Broken Wolf refers to Perrin, at least that's how Mordin interpreted it. The prophocey at the end of the book was the one Mordin showed Greandal.

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Yeah there's a aiel sept or clan whatever in the blight. That's the blank. Portal stone would be rather disappointing.

Aiel do not have dark eyes. Aiel do not have dark eyes. Aiel do not have dark eyes.

 

 

 

Like the discussion of the dark prophecy. The text is "In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning, and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come. Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself."

 

So who's the Broken Wolf? Well, it's obviously not Perrin, since he's the Blacksmith, and it would be strange to change his title one sentence later. Plus, death hasn't known him. So who are the other candidates?

 

Hopper- fits the first sentence quite well. However, there's no reason for his destruction to bring fear and sorrow to men. Maybe three men in the entire world even knew he was around.

 

Hoper is now a Darkhound, since he was killed by Slayer. That could bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of Men.

 

In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning, and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come.

 

To me, that reads like: In that day, when [Mat] travels the halls of [*Finnland], and [Rand] lifts his hand to bring freedom to [The Dark One], the last days of [Perrin's] pride shall come. So, that bit refers to the day when Rand breaks the seals. We don't know precisely when Mat exits the Tower of Ghenjei, but this suggests he's in there on the day Rand travels to Shayol Ghul. The 'last days of pride' could mean many things.

 

Lifting his Hand is not exactly the same as actually doing it. Actually Rand has been lifting his hand since almost a month now, in this month Hoper has died.

Edited by JohnnyBeGood

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Perrin to Mat about his wife: "I would like to meet her"

Foreshadowing anyone?

 

Rand needs someone to talk to Tuon asap. Mat is Light knows where. Perrin goes: "What the hey, i´ll go take a look".

 

 

Hoper is now a Darkhound, since he was killed by Slayer. That could bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of Men.

 

huh? I thought that to make a darkhound a darkhound had to eat the soul of a half-dead wolf. And the original darkhounds were made by Aginor. Did i miss something?

 

Very happy with Perrin's arc apart from one point at the very end.

He said he'd look into why portals couldn't be made around Caemlyn, so what does he do? Head's over to the meeting.

Hmm. Did I miss something, or has he overlooked this?

 

Geographical location doesn´t matter. He´ll check it out in the wolfdream.

Edited by waffle

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When Grady visits his son, he says he is ugly as a tree stump. Am I jumping to conclusions or is he Gaidal Cain?

 

If he's about a year old it could be Gaidal.

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Hoper is now a Darkhound, since he was killed by Slayer. That could bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of Men.

 

huh? I thought that to make a darkhound a darkhound had to eat the soul of a half-dead wolf. And the original darkhounds were made by Aginor. Did i miss something?

 

Slayer is to Darkhounds what Perrin is to Wolfs and has a lot of special Powers concerning Tel'aran'rhiod.

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Far as I know, we don't know this. We haven't even seen Slayer with Darkhounds, have we? He hunted wolves in the Dream, but he just killed them. This is fanon. Though if someone can provide a quote showing him to be a Darkhound-Brother, I'll happilly acknowledge myself as wrong.

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Right at the beginning, we have seanchan towers of midnight, and we have egwenes dream showing the 12 forsaken as towers of midnight. Lan is the only person who is able to be sacrificed before the DO is resealed that could fit for sure. So which set of towers will kill him, the seanchan, or the forsaken? Seeing as how he's in tarwins gap right now, and the only person who is really aware that he need's help is Rand, who is probably about to be detained in a conflict with the AS, I think he's toast. Everyone will finish up their little squable and say "OK! Let's go save Lan and start the last battle!" only to find they just lost him. That would shake everyones nerve right before the LB starts.

 

Anyway, Perrin's arc was finally amazing. The hammer forging was amazing. The best part of the book. But the hammer aftewards was kinda pointless... Seemed to not add any significant damage to be worth the effort. Now if it starts tossing trollocs or shooting shockwaves/thunderbolts when it starts really going, then it'll be sweet.

 

I kinda think Rand, Mat, and Perrin are supposed to fight shadar haran in a 3 on 1 fight for some reason. Makes sense seeing as how they'll not want to channel right inside shyougouhl until the moment they make the new seal. The wound in perrins leg could really matter at that point, which might be another way to fullfill the prophecy.

 

The beginning of the arc really drug on for no reason though. BS should've given a bit of that manuevering to mats arc near the end.

 

By the way, how come the wolves and Perrin were able to see rand in TAR? Rand was in the world of flesh when he did his thing. Does tar kinda of show rand alot now adays, or only for huge events? That would be weird, and a huge weak point.

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I loved the construction of Perrin's new toy,

I love that it's name mimics the name of Thor's hammer.

I like that Perrin has finally seemed to have his 'epiphany.'

now that he's stopped whining, he's become a good character again.

 

That's because it is Thor's Hammer. Perrin is Thor - the same way Mat is Odin and Rand is Tyr.

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