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When is someone important/loved going to die?


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I'm not asking for a GRRM style book where someone seemingly important dies every 3rd chapter.. but so far the only person to die has been Verin, and really she was a minor player. Moiraine dying would've been a big thing if there wasn't books worth of foreshadowing that she was alive.

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Plenty of important people have died. Not main characters, true, but that's not the same thing. At least not to me. For me, "important" is anyone who has a decent amount of "screentime" and/or has a significant role in at least one plotline. "Loved" is too divorced from story significance to matter. Some people really love very minor characters who appear for two seconds and some despise one or more of the principals (do a google search on "Perrin" sometime...) So, anyway, under that definition, important dead people include:

 

Ingtar

Verin

Masema

Jaichim Carridin

Aram

Geofram Bornhald

Those four jerkass Asha'man

Hadnan and Isendre

Vandene

Eben Hopwil

Fedwin Morr

Tylin

Reanne Corly

Couladin

Eamon Valda

Pedron Niall

Colavaere Saighan

Any perma-dead Forsaken besides maybe Be'lal

 

so on, so forth, et cetera

 

Still...yes: a big name really should bite it at some point.

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And most of those are Darkside. We need to see some Lightside characters go. I rather think we will, esp towards the end of the book.

 

It's 9:30 am here in the UK.. 23 hours to go before the shops open..

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And most of those are Darkside. We need to see some Lightside characters go. I rather think we will, esp towards the end of the book.

 

Few things:

 

  1. I don't personally consider someone "Darkside" unless they're Forsaken/DFs. Even then, Verin and Ingtar can't properly be called "Darkside".
  2. Many are just antagonists, with some being good-gone-bad-but-not-Shadow-bad (e.g. Aram, some Whitecloaks)
  3. The list isn't exhaustive.

But let's do a tally anyway:

 

Good guys/allies of Good Guys = 7

Non-Shadow Antagonists = 7

Shadow = 11 ( this assumes all four killer Asha'man were TEH EVIL, which isn't certain. Extremely likely, but still)

 

So, actually, not mostly Darksiders. But again, yes: some mains should die.

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@didymos: totally agreed about Ingtar and Verin.

 

Your cat 2 'antagonists' are doing what the Shadow wants by hindering the good guys, even if they don't realise it. So I'll call them Greysiders.

 

And yes you're right, it isn't exhaustive by any means.

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Well, I have to agree. I would hate to see someone big die (like Perrin) but people very close to the main characters....and no, i don't mean Fail. I just hope it's not Rand's people - he suffered enough I think. If Tam is on a chopping block or one of the three amigas - I'll be disappointed (though if Min died it would give Rand's story a very tragic twist, I have to admit. She's my favorite though).

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i have to say that some people are not expandable, these are imo:

 

rand, mat, perrin, aviendha, elayne, min, egwene

 

and my personal favorites: the 3 uber asha'man flinn, narishma and logain (i dont think these are indestructable, i just hope they dont die :D)

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i have to say that some people are not expandable, these are imo:

 

rand, mat, perrin, aviendha, elayne, min, egwene

 

and my personal favorites: the 3 uber asha'man flinn, narishma and logain (i dont think these are indestructable, i just hope they dont die :D)

 

Yes, I think those three will be crucial in creating post-LB AS.

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I'd love to see Faile die, but she's not important or loved. If anything, her dying would be a good thing.. Perrin would go nuts and tear up some Forsaken by himself.

 

Loial... Loial should die. He's been important to every main character, he's loved by them all.

 

Once he convinces the Ogier to stay and fight in TG, he should die. Let his young preggers wife take over his book.

 

You'd have to be a cold hearted bastard not to tear up if he was killed off.

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I'd love to see Faile die, but she's not important or loved.

 

She's important to the plot, very much so, in multiple books in the series. As for loved...subjective. "Widely disliked" does not equate to "unloved". I also have to say, I don't find the idea of authors picking casualties on the basis of popularity in the fandom a very appealing notion.

 

He's been important to every main character, he's loved by them all.

 

So wait: your definition of "important" is just "the majority of main characters care about them/like them/think they're cool? You do realize that this elevates characters utterly irrelevant to the plot to "importance". I hope that's not all you go by, because that's a terrible way of deciding importance.

Edited by didymos
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Ingtar

Verin

Masema

Jaichim Carridin

Aram

Geofram Bornhald

Those four jerkass Asha'man

Hadnan and Isendre

Vandene

Eben Hopwil

Fedwin Morr

Tylin

Reanne Corly

Couladin

Eamon Valda

Pedron Niall

Colavaere Saighan

Any perma-dead Forsaken besides maybe Be'lal

 

so on, so forth, et cetera

 

Still...yes: a big name really should bite it at some point.

 

They may not have been huge characters, but both Ingtar and Verin's deaths were genuinely touching. Don't see how anyone could downplay thier sacrifices. Especially Verin's...nothing minor about her contribution to fandom or the plot. Over a decade of discussing Verinisms and we get an explanation like that, that culminates in that sacrifice as well as single handedly nearly crippling the Black Ajah. What about that is minor?

 

The others bolded were all rather sad as well.

 

You can add Anaiya, Adelas, and Sheriam to the list. I know the last was Black, but I think most of us came to pity her more then anything as we saw the few scenes of what she was going through.

 

List of people who are going to die(again, not exaustive but off the top of my head)......

 

Lan

Cadsuane

Both Bashere's probably

Rand

Moiraine(possibly)

Thom, Olver, and/or Noal

 

Don't worry, not a single one of the main forces(by which I don't count Seanchan, Whitecloaks, or Masema's men) have truly lost a battle. That's not going to happen during Tarmon Gaiden. It's going to be a bloodbath. Rereading some of the books is making me cringe, actually. Mat and Perrin's men follow them so faithfully, and both have been very lucky with thier forces. I worry that they, and many others, are going to have a lot bloodier time come ToM and aMoL.

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Off the top of my head, people to die:

 

Both Basheres

Tenobia (I know, not very major but she needs to die for the plot)

Noal

Darlin and/or Dobraine

Taim (thats for the last book)

Rand

Tuon?

I hope Lan doesn't

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He's been important to every main character, he's loved by them all.

 

So wait: your definition of "important" is just "the majority of main characters care about them/like them/think they're cool? You do realize that this elevates characters utterly irrelevant to the plot to "importance". I hope that's not all you go by, because that's a terrible way of deciding importance.

 

He brought Jain Farstrider's warning about danger to the Eye of the World to Moiraine in Caemlyn.

His knowledge of the Ways allowed the group to get there. No way of knowing if the Forsaken could have found Someshta somehow without following Mat, that would've lost the Horn, the Dragon banner and the Eye to the Forsaken.

 

Again, his use of the Ways allowed Perrin to get home. If Perrin had gone without Loial, even if he had made it across the river somehow and saved the Cauthons and Luhans and taveren'd the district into circling the wagons, the trollocs would have flooded the area. It was Loial that slowed the flood by semi locking the Way and then finally stopped it by locking the gate and removing both keys.

 

He then went on Walkabout to go close down as many Waygates as possible. And finally, he'll be talking the ogier into stayind and fighting in the last battle before they go haring off to Avalon.

 

 

That's far more important than some tart that browbeats and whips a man into changing for her, expects him to live up to her culture's expectation on relationships, tries to sucker a nation out of him (or at the least a lordship). I cannot think of a single instance, not even getting kidnapped, where she was so important that if she had not shown up the world would probably lose.

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You can add Anaiya, Adelas, and Sheriam to the list. I know the last was Black, but I think most of us came to pity her more then anything as we saw the few scenes of what she was going through.

 

I was actually hoping it would turn out she had gotten 13x13'd. It was her that first tells us about the trick during Egwene's Accepted trial.

 

I really had grown to like her, probably because she's a redhead.

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Maybe I'm just crazy, but I really don't think Rand is going to die. I want him to, I think he should. But since the beginning we've been told that he needs to die in order to save the world. I don't know how, or why, but I really think "something" is going to happen that allows him to survive.

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I would hate it if somebody important from the light side dies. I've known these people way too long now. If the series had started 5 year ago, maybe I could have handled it, but now I know its going to be really traumatic if it happens. I dread just thinking about it.

 

Rand will probably die, but I am prepared for that. I also have a feeling that they will kill the DO forever and therefore they can pull a Birgitte to bring him back as a mortal.

Edited by Alric
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I'd like to see someone major get hit with the ol' 13x13.

 

Also, I don't think Lan will die any more than Rand will. I think Malkier will rise again. If he does die, then Nynaeve will do it, I guess, but I think Lan will survive. I'm expecting to see Perrin get shredded, though. Better him than Faile- she would be vengeful, but there would probably not be 30 chapters on how she couldn't live without Perrin.

 

Egwene, unfortunately, will probably survive. The Tower needs her. Elayne can die, after she's had her "babes."

 

I think we will see Moridin and his ladies tearing holes in Rand and co. I'm thinking they will go for Min. That's all speculation, of course, but we know a bunch of people will die.

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This has been the basis of my only major complaint about the series actually. I think the series would have been so much better had Perin gone to the shadow because of his obsession over Faile and become the main shadow dredlord. I think RJ dropped the ball by not killing off a major character or two. I of course have my opinions and they may not reflect the majority or even a small group of people. I just think that had Perin gone over and one or two major characters for the light died, it would have elevated the story ten fold. RJ seemed to really dislike killing off characters. The forsaken seem to come back regular like clock work.

 

As far as what could happen in the last book?

 

Loial should die. RJ made Loial in his own image. He stated that Loial was basically his chance to insert himself in the series. RJ died. It would be fitting if Loial died in a way that a good author can write that leaves you feeling a loss for it.

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