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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
grump

DEMANDRED'S ALTER EGO

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I think it is WEIRAMON. NO I AM NOT JOKING! He is constantly an idiot but can you think of a better disguise. he is in a position of power, but no one will let him use it because he is such a loose cannon. Remember that he and Dashiva

are tasked with keeping an eye on Rand. Remember how many times he is sent away then returns without permission. He is always pristine when everybody else is covered with mud and blood. POD He reacts out of charactor only one time that I can find. Path of Daggers Pages 537-539 speaking to Gedwyn showing that he is not only not an idiot but a darkfriend of considerable authority. His last words are "Kill who ever you wish, where ever you wish" Gedwyn is one of the five who try to kill Rand later. another of the five in Far Madding remembers that both Taim and Demandred had ok ed the attack. He is First to call Rand "Lord of the Morning" an otherwise forgotten title for the Dragon. Last and certainly least. I TGS RJ and BS make a special point in that one of rands personalities says "at least he isn't pretending to be anybody else" to the other.

 

Thanks the grump

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I think it is WEIRAMON. NO I AM NOT JOKING!

 

OK. YOU"RE NOT JOKING.

 

 

But, sorry: no. Weiramon has been "on screen" since tSR. Demandred's alter-ego...well:

 

Demandred hasn't been in-guise in the books at least up to Knife of Dreams. So energies focused on "exactly who is he" would be pointless, to an extent. If he is indeed imitating someone, you haven't seen that someone through most of the series. At least not in person. You may have seen them now, but if so, they haven't been on-screen for long.

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I think it is WEIRAMON. NO I AM NOT JOKING!

 

OK. YOU"RE NOT JOKING.

 

 

But, sorry: no. Weiramon has been "on screen" since tSR. Demandred's alter-ego...well:

 

Demandred hasn't been in-guise in the books at least up to Knife of Dreams. So energies focused on "exactly who is he" would be pointless, to an extent. If he is indeed imitating someone, you haven't seen that someone through most of the series. At least not in person. You may have seen them now, but if so, they haven't been on-screen for long.

 

 

'I wonder why people ignore something this basic. We probably have not seen Demandred's later ago in any book. He might not even have one.

Edited by WhiskyJack

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RJ and BS make a special point in that one of rands personalities says "at least he isn't pretending to be anybody else" to the other.

 

The passage, in The Gathering Storm, "Before the Stone of Tear":

As always, Weiramon looked even more the fool for attempting to style himself as anything other than a buffoon; his beard was waxed, his hair was carefully arranged to hide just how much he was balding and his clothing was rich -- a coat and breeches cut as if to be a field unifoorm, but no man would wear such fine cloth into battle. No man but Weiramon.

 

I like him, Lews Therin thought.

Rand started. You don't like anyone!

He's honest, Lews Therin replied, then laughed. More than I am, for certain! A man doesn't choose to be an idiot, but he does choose to be loyal. We could do much worse than have this man as a follower.

 

That would be quite a piece of irony.

 

Personally, I'd like to believe that RJ was lying, and Taim is in fact Demandred. Not likely, I know, but Taim seems more formidable than any of the Forsaken we've seen to date, and he's commanding a more powerful army than anyone on the continent except maybe the Seanchan. The Dark One should fire one of his idiot Chosen and send Taim an offer letter.

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RJ and BS make a special point in that one of rands personalities says "at least he isn't pretending to be anybody else" to the other.

 

The passage, in The Gathering Storm, "Before the Stone of Tear":

As always, Weiramon looked even more the fool for attempting to style himself as anything other than a buffoon; his beard was waxed, his hair was carefully arranged to hide just how much he was balding and his clothing was rich -- a coat and breeches cut as if to be a field unifoorm, but no man would wear such fine cloth into battle. No man but Weiramon.

 

I like him, Lews Therin thought.

Rand started. You don't like anyone!

He's honest, Lews Therin replied, then laughed. More than I am, for certain! A man doesn't choose to be an idiot, but he does choose to be loyal. We could do much worse than have this man as a follower.

 

That would be quite a piece of irony.

 

Personally, I'd like to believe that RJ was lying, and Taim is in fact Demandred. Not likely, I know, but Taim seems more formidable than any of the Forsaken we've seen to date, and he's commanding a more powerful army than anyone on the continent except maybe the Seanchan. The Dark One should fire one of his idiot Chosen and send Taim an offer letter.

 

Taim has like 100 or so channelers and none really powerful one. How can he be commanding one of the most what? Taim himself probably picked up the knowledge from Ishmael or Demandred. Taim's ashman are going to get over run by WT/Logain fraction as the prophecy claim.

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I would have to think it was unlikely that Demandred could possibly reign in his anger and hatred upon meeting with Rand. In the Forsaken meetings he can barely hold back (if he even succeeds) calling out his hatred and how much he wants to be the one to kill al'Thor. Although most of them want the same thing, he actually voices it aloud, even when everyone is well aware of Moridin's rules on the subject. The only thing that will make him smile is when he kills al'Thor. So far he's held to that.

 

That plus RJ's quote about him not being seen in the books as of CoT pretty much rules out Weiramon. I kind of wish Semi's PoV in TGS would have had something that was a clue to his whereabouts, because she, Mesaana, and perhaps Moridin or Taim seem to be the only living people other than Demandred himself that knows what he's doing.

 

I don't believe that RJ has deliberately lied about anything in his interviews or Q&A.

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I didn't expect much in the way of agreement, but just like I think Nesune is Meassana,now that I have said it and why I think so, I will wait and see how close or far away I am. Oh yeah, I think Slayer Killed Asmo, Cyndane traded power for freedom and then was doublecrossed and killed by the finns before being brought back by the DO. That Noal lost his memory and gained his broken bones in another deal crafted by the Finns

 

Even if none of the above turns out to be right I had lots of fun turning it up and possibly even a blind grump may find an acorn of truth somewhere in the Wheel of Time

 

Thanks grump

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I really don't understand this phenomenon: the author confirms in no uncertain terms that an idea is dead, flat wrong, so therefore....I still might be right because he could be lying or something or, you know, stuff!

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I really don't understand this phenomenon: the author confirms in no uncertain terms that an idea is dead, flat wrong, so therefore....I still might be right because he could be lying or something or, you know, stuff!

 

 

I blame it on people having too much time. Thais why I don't guess how any novel will go or who is who because I am not the one writing it, something people obviously choose to ignore.

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I really don't understand this phenomenon: the author confirms in no uncertain terms that an idea is dead, flat wrong, so therefore....I still might be right because he could be lying or something or, you know, stuff!

 

 

I blame it on people having too much time. Thais why I don't guess how any novel will go or who is who because I am not the one writing it, something people obviously choose to ignore.

 

I have no problem with the theorizing and the speculation. I do it myself (although some things are just so obviously insane that there's no way they're gonna turn out to be right unless you happen to be reading William S. Burroughs or something). For instance, I was totally convinced that Taim was Demandred...right up until RJ said "No. He's not." I had no problems with it: he's not and that is that. Time for new ideas. It's when people basically go "LALALALALALALA! I can't hear you! He is too!" that I get baffled.

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Demandred is Olver. It is known.

 

It is? And from where did you get that information that Demandred is Olver?

 

he is joking, "it is known" is a sentence used by a group of ppl in a series called a song of ice and fire. they say "it is known" after giving a fact about a certain thing, usually based on superstition and ignorance

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Ah yeah! I remember that. It's been a while since I've read that book. Whew! For a while I thought Elend really was spoiling us with that. But Olver is a plausible candidate. And on-topic, I doubt Weiramon is Demandred. He's just a silly DF.

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Taim has like 100 or so channelers and none really powerful one. How can he be commanding one of the most what? Taim himself probably picked up the knowledge from Ishmael or Demandred. Taim's ashman are going to get over run by WT/Logain fraction as the prophecy claim.

 

How do you know they're not really powerful?

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"it is known" is a sentence used by a group of ppl in a series called a song of ice and fire. they say "it is known" after giving a fact about a certain thing, usually based on superstition and ignorance

Really? Which group? I don't remember that at all. Admittedly, the way GRRM's going, I'll forget who Arya is by the time I lay my hands on ADwD. Bran's already slipping from my mind, and I have a feeling that he's going to be a messiah of sorts.

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I really don't understand this phenomenon: the author confirms in no uncertain terms that an idea is dead, flat wrong, so therefore....I still might be right because he could be lying or something or, you know, stuff!

 

It's altogether better to argue from evidence in the texts than from evidence outside of the texts. An author of a mystery should have no interest in revealing any clues about the mystery except through the text -- otherwise, why bother writing the book? All that said, I don't believe Robert Jordan lied about anything he revealed. But if he *did* lie, in light of the legions of fans attempting to predict his story's outcomes, I wouldn't blame him at all.

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"it is known" is a sentence used by a group of ppl in a series called a song of ice and fire. they say "it is known" after giving a fact about a certain thing, usually based on superstition and ignorance

Really? Which group? I don't remember that at all. Admittedly, the way GRRM's going, I'll forget who Arya is by the time I lay my hands on ADwD. Bran's already slipping from my mind, and I have a feeling that he's going to be a messiah of sorts.

 

The Wildlings from beyond The Wall. (Wait for it...) It is known.

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It's altogether better to argue from evidence in the texts than from evidence outside of the texts.

 

Why? If it's coming from the author of the books, it's a fact. Period. Being in the actual books doesn't make it any "factier". You may prefer authors not provide information outside of the books, but using that info can't magically make an argument about matters of fact weaker.

 

An author of a mystery should have no interest in revealing any clues about the mystery except through the text -- otherwise, why bother writing the book?

 

An author can have an interest in whatever they want. Again: you may prefer they do things the way you like them done, but, well, good luck with that. And why write it? Because they want to tell that story? I mean if you're talking about something where the entire plot is an actual mystery, rather than something which happens to have some mysteries in it, most of which are not crucial to the enjoyment of the main plot, then yes: you probably shouldn't ruin the mystery. Or more generally, you probably shouldn't tell people how it all ends at a book-signing or something. Otherwise, I see no problem in talking about background details that you've decided not to put in the text for whatever reason, but which still inform it and which you still consider true in that world, or in clearing up minor mysteries which you've decided people are placing too much importance on, or in handing out the occasional clue to keep people speculating or because you just damn well felt like doing so.

 

All that said, I don't believe Robert Jordan lied about anything he revealed. But if he *did* lie, in light of the legions of fans attempting to predict his story's outcomes, I wouldn't blame him at all.

 

I would. I'd blame him for lying and doing so apparently just to spite people who paid too much attention to his work. That's...not so nice. The solution to that problem is simple, and one he used: RAFO.

Edited by didymos

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It's altogether better to argue from evidence in the texts than from evidence outside of the texts.

Why? If it's coming from the author of the books, it's a fact. Period. Being in the actual books doesn't make it any "factier". You may prefer authors not provide information outside of the books, but using that info can't magically make an argument about matters of fact weaker.

Rather, once the books are all written and everything's said and done, you might choose to interpret what's in the books independently from the interview database, and no one can argue with that. It's a work of fiction, and everyone may decide what it means for themselves.

However, since we're currently waiting on two installments plus an encyclopedia, there's a high likelihood that answers RJ gave in interviews will eventually find their way into the books proper. That's the sole reason it's best to take those interviews as cannon right now, but it's not an insignificant reason at all.

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