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The Fisher King

Quick Question - Is Lan a Blademaster Bc He Killed Toram Raitin?

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RJ said Rand (before losing arm) is better than Galad and that Lan is better than Rand. Sanderson said Galad is better than Gawyn.

 

So the greatest blademasters in the world:

 

Lan > Rand (with all limbs) > Galad > Gawyn

 

 

Only one that may be a match for Lan is Mat...before losing his eye that is. His skill, with all those memories is probably somewhat close to Lan, he is very strongly ta'avern and his luck makes up for almost everything he lacks.

Edited by Entreri

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Only one that may be a match for Lan is Mat...before losing his eye that is. His skill, with all those memories is probably somewhat close to Lan, he is very strongly ta'avern and his luck makes up for almost everything he lacks.

I'm not sure I agree. Luck will only get you so far against experience and conditioning. Besides, I'm not sure it's fair to compare two fighters with different weapons.

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2 blademasters dead at the hands of gawyn

1 blademaster dead at the hands of galad.

 

score is 2-1 to gawyn.

 

That's faulty logic, saying it's 2-1 to Gawyn wehen they haven't faught eachother. Galad hasn't had the oppertunity to fight 2 of his teachers or 3 bloodknives.

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Okay, so lets recap.

 

Recognized Living Blademasters (as far as I can tell)

Lan

Sleete

Tam

Galad

Byrne

Bashere

Ituralde

 

Definite Blademasters but possibly not recognized

Rand (depending on Lan's dialogue that may have stated he was)

Gawyn (depending on whether the killing of Hammar and Coulin and/or the defeating of Sleete were enough, which is hinted at but not confirmed)

 

Probables and Possibles

Demandred

Tallinvor

Elyas

Angelmar Jagad

Darlin

Karede

Galgan

 

 

Not sure if I missed anybody.

 

As far as the Galad/Gawyn debate goes...yes, Brandon is THE source. His word is bond. However, events and time can change things and to be honest, it wouldn't be the first time he thought a character was less powerful than they are.

 

Also, there is at least one allusion in the books to the concept that Gawyn may be the better of the two. I beleive ti was a warder who was refering to the battle and said something to the effect of "Before that battle I always thought Galad was the dangerous one", referring to Hammar and Coulin.

 

And also, Gawyn's known tally of defeated Blademasters is 3, not 2.

 

On the flipside, I really get the impression that Valda could've and would've taken Sleete, Coulin, and Hammar as well. I infer this from Morgase' reaction to Galad fighting and beating him, which I find notable given how accustomed she was to them and how knowledgeable she seemed to be. Here even understandign that Valda was a big deal speaks of knowledge.

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it's just not only that warder that gave gawyn his due. but in TGS bryne also says that gawyn was the talented one whilst comparing both brothers.

 

Bryne was not comparing the two brothers. He was merely saying that Gawyn was talented and that he was not surprised that he had become very good with the blade.

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First post, long time reader. Hi!

Been reading the series since just before the release of book #4.

 

Pretty tough to say at this point imo.

There have been quite a few things to suggest Gawyn might just be the better now, however, just because we have seen more of Gawyn in action than Galad, that shouldn't influence opinions unduly.

 

Another thing to consider as far as the grand scheme of things goes....Galad is half brother to the Dragon Reborn after all and it should also be noted that when Galad's blood is spilled it is also technically that of the Dragon Reborn.

(This is something I have always had in the back of my mind when ever I read the Prophecy talking of the Dragon's blood being spilled. Yea, a stretch perhaps but it tickles me none the less.)

Edited by Finnssss

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Welcome to Dragonmount.

Cunning idea about the blood there but I think it's clear that Ran's blood, specifically, will be spilled.

 

 

Yeah, like I said, it's just a tickle of a thought.

 

On that note though....I am looking forward to Galad being introduced by Perrin to Rand.

My thoughts on that....

 

Rand: "Ahh, Galad Damodred. Son of Taringail Damodred and Tigraine Mantear. Or as she was known amongst the Aiel...Shaiel, maiden of the spear of Chumai Taardad....and also...my mother.

Welcome brother."

:ohmy:

*Galad feints*

Edited by Finnssss

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Quick Question: So, were/are all five of the original Great Captains also Blademasters?

 

 

- Fish

 

We know that Ilturalde and Bryne are blademasters. As far as I remember we have not been given any info to indicate that Bashere, Agelmar, or Niall are. Bashere, at least, we spend enough time with that I think we would have heard about it if he was. Although we don't find out about Bryne until fairly late in the story so maybe that's not really true.

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Quick Question: So, were/are all five of the original Great Captains also Blademasters?

 

 

- Fish

 

We know that Ilturalde and Bryne are blademasters. As far as I remember we have not been given any info to indicate that Bashere, Agelmar, or Niall are. Bashere, at least, we spend enough time with that I think we would have heard about it if he was. Although we don't find out about Bryne until fairly late in the story so maybe that's not really true.

 

Hmmm...I was pretty sure we'd heard that Davram and Agelmar were, and I would bet that Pedron Niall was too, but I am probably wrong.

 

 

- Fish

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I was actually kinda disappointed that Bryne's a blademaster. It's starting to seem like anybody who's anybody has to be a blademaster even if being amazing with a sword isn't part of their primary duties (although I guess it is, now that he's a warder, but meh). I want at least a couple of the great captains to not be blademasters but just very efficient at getting things killed.

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If Bashere is a Blademaster, I think we would of known that by now.

He's been in more than enough scenes and RJ has always made a point of describing a Heron marked blade or making sure to note a Blademaster rather quickly.

 

I'm pretty sure that if we haven't been told that so and so is a Blademaster yet, then they aren't.

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I'm pretty sure that if we haven't been told that so and so is a Blademaster yet, then they aren't.

It was Mark Grayson's point that we haven't known about Bryne until very recently, and he was in the story since TEoTW, Bashere barely making it into TFoH.

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I was actually kinda disappointed that Bryne's a blademaster. It's starting to seem like anybody who's anybody has to be a blademaster even if being amazing with a sword isn't part of their primary duties (although I guess it is, now that he's a warder, but meh). I want at least a couple of the great captains to not be blademasters but just very efficient at getting things killed.

 

This does not make much sense to me. A Great Captain, the greatest of the great generals in the world, not being a blademaster? Really?

A generals duty isn't only to plan wars, strategy and tactics, but also to train troops.

I'm not saying it is a must for them to be a blademaster, but I think it is very, very, likely that they are. After all, most of the time then spend in life is to eat, train and plan.

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^Yes, it only makes sense that some of the Great Captains would be blademasters.

 

I hope that Brandon is going to able to do at least a decent job of describing the action scenes in the final book...especially the awesomeness that is Rand and Lan. He can take a page from R.A. Salvatore.

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I see a top general being similar to a modern sports coach. They decide on the general (cough) plan, and coaches the players to execute this. They then employ specialists to coach specific skills. Oh, and I'd guess that (I'm no expert) pure blademastery (one-on-one duels etc) is far from the normal battle field. but the gist of this is; I don't think being a general means it's more likely to be a blademaster, because you'd have to coach your troops in swordsmanship.

 

Regarding 'luck' - If we want to disparage Gawyn's abilities because he's 'luckier' than he thinks, then it's time to take Mat down a notch I'm afraid - And don't try funny business :wink: , even HE says "luck is a horse to ride like any other." or some such hehehe

 

I agree with some here; fine that Anderson says that Galad is better than Gawyn, but the writing makes that a bit hard to swallow.

Edited by Tollieman

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I see a top general being similar to a modern sports coach.

You do know that we actually still have generals in the real world, right? I'm not sure I see cause to look for allegories :smile:

Perhaps more to the point, though, in armies where one isn't made an officer by virtue of his blood/training (and I admit I don't know how the Domani do it) - an effective soldier will stand more chance of receiving command in the first place. That point is moot in peacetime, but we still have armies in the real world who actually do some fighting here and there :wink:

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Of course I do; however I know very little about true generals and only go on those in the book from what I've read about them. I can therefore only compare it to what I do know. Of course, it could apply exactly the same, but I really wouldn't know. Does a general who sends in a sniper squad need to have been a sniper?

 

What I've seen is, you didn't need to be at the epitome of your sport to make a great coach. It helps to have a good understanding (this is crucial) but not be a blademaster, if you know what I mean...

 

It's not serious, I was just thinking that 'training' is not really a justification for a top general to more likely be a blademaster. Of course, to have the dedication, will etc to be a top general means you're probably more likely to succeed with whatever you try.

Edited by Tollieman

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I see a top general being similar to a modern sports coach. They decide on the general (cough) plan, and coaches the players to execute this. They then employ specialists to coach specific skills. Oh, and I'd guess that (I'm no expert) pure blademastery (one-on-one duels etc) is far from the normal battle field. but the gist of this is; I don't think being a general means it's more likely to be a blademaster, because you'd have to coach your troops in swordsmanship.

 

Regarding 'luck' - If we want to disparage Gawyn's abilities because he's 'luckier' than he thinks, then it's time to take Mat down a notch I'm afraid - And don't try funny business :wink: , even HE says "luck is a horse to ride like any other." or some such hehehe

 

I agree with some here; fine that Anderson says that Galad is better than Gawyn, but the writing makes that a bit hard to swallow.

 

Mat's luck is a skill to be manipulated, something ridiculously evident in the Ghenjei sequence of ToM.

 

Gawyn does not have that ability.

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