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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Shaidar Haran


soccerscott
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Ok... so Ba'alzamon :baalzamon: "BRAAARAWRRRRRRR" (sorry he wanted to bellow) means "heart of the dark" right? Dude turns out to be Ishy.

 

Ok... so Shaidar Haran :myrddraal: "..." (yea can't think of a myddraal thing to word out here) means "hand of the dark" right? Dude is who?

 

Now Alviarin is marked by dude, and says something like I got fondled by the DO. But didn't people getting visited by Ishy in their dreams say he was the DO?

 

Ok... lets go SAT on this conundrum.

 

Ba'alzamon is to Ishy as Shaidar Haran is to ________.

 

ready.... GO.

 

 

P.S. I was going to check if this was already a thread, but I really had no intention of searching through 167 pages of topics.

 

::edit to put in Shaidari's face::

Edited by soccerscott
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he is just a myrrdraal with extraordinary powers which mark him as an powered up myrrdraal. I think we first see him in EotW during winternight because lan and moraine couldnt kill him yet they later say that the myrdraal has the DO's luck, and that only the weakest AS wouldnt be a match for a myrdraal. . . V1.0 anyone?

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He's far more than just a myrddraal with an extra trick or two.

 

WinespringBrother: Is Shaidar Haran an avatar to the world beyond the Bore?

Jordan: I am not certain you can really call him an avatar because I generally think of an avatar as having exactly the same powers as, and it is not, Shaidar Haran does not have nearly as much power as the Dark One. It's as though the Dark One is able to project a shadowy form of himself into this creature - it is the Dark One in shadowy form.

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he is just a myrrdraal with extraordinary powers which mark him as an powered up myrrdraal. I think we first see him in EotW during winternight because lan and moraine couldnt kill him yet they later say that the myrdraal has the DO's luck, and that only the weakest AS wouldnt be a match for a myrdraal. . . V1.0 anyone?

 

I'm sorry, your answer must be in the form of a question.

 

::side note:: effing (yea that's supposed to be f*%king but these forums are pg13 right?) awesome connection to the EotW! I never thought about that ::end side note::

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He's not "just a myrddraal" at all. Basically, he's the Dark One:

 

WinespringBrother: Is Shaidar Haran an avatar to the world beyond the Bore?

 

Jordan: I am not certain you can really call him an avatar because I generally think of an avatar as having exactly the same powers as, and it is not, Shaidar Haran does not have nearly as much power as the Dark One. It's as though the Dark One is able to project a shadowy form of himself into this creature - it is the Dark One in shadowy form.

WinespringBrother: Is it twenty-four/seven, or just part time.

Jordan: Twenty-four/seven.

 

ETA: I see I got ninja'd by GYLD

Edited by didymos
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Oh, he, or a predecessor, shows up a few more times besides the possible Winternight appearance, too. There's a smiling Myrddraal later in tEotW who confronts Rand, one appears in the prologue of tGH (and Jordan specifically confirmed this instance), and yet another shows up to bug Carridin at one point. I think in tSR. In the tDR prologue. Likely all the same one, until it was replaced by the Superfade version.

Edited by didymos
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I always kind of thought that the earlier versions (tgh, tdr, etc) were smaller because more seals still held.

 

It was stated a couple of times that with the Seals breaking/weakening, that the DO will be able to "put his hand through the bore and once more touch the pattern." Now that only 3 seals remain, he HAS been able to have his "hand" manifest. Only a small part of his entire being and nature, and nowhere near as powerful, but still deadly as all get out.

 

As the seals broke, he was able to squeeze more and more of his "hand" through the metaphysical "opening".

 

Just my take on it.

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I always kind of thought that the earlier versions (tgh, tdr, etc) were smaller because more seals still held.

 

It was stated a couple of times that with the Seals breaking/weakening, that the DO will be able to "put his hand through the bore and once more touch the pattern." Now that only 3 seals remain, he HAS been able to have his "hand" manifest. Only a small part of his entire being and nature, and nowhere near as powerful, but still deadly as all get out.

 

As the seals broke, he was able to squeeze more and more of his "hand" through the metaphysical "opening".

 

Just my take on it.

 

I don't think it would be that straightforward. It makes more sense to me that as the seals have broken, the DO's ability to warp reality has grown. So, SH didn't grow as a direct result of the DO's prison-patch shrinking and thus there being "more" of him in the world. Rather, he was able to inhabit a myrddraal in the first place because, due to the TP being involved in the creation of Shadowspawn, they're already unnatural and not quite "in phase" with reality. They don't really belong in the Pattern. As his ability to touch things grew, he was then able to remake his "Hand" into something even more unnatural, to the point where it was unnatural even for a myrddraal. Not unlike how he can alter the height of the cavern leading to the Pit of Doom and do other weird stuff like the crazy sky down there.

 

Or, he just screwed up with the original-recipe SH and later figured out a way to make something more in line with what he wanted. With the complete lack of information about SH's origins, there's really no way to know or do anything but guess.

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I always kind of thought that the earlier versions (tgh, tdr, etc) were smaller because more seals still held.

 

It was stated a couple of times that with the Seals breaking/weakening, that the DO will be able to "put his hand through the bore and once more touch the pattern." Now that only 3 seals remain, he HAS been able to have his "hand" manifest. Only a small part of his entire being and nature, and nowhere near as powerful, but still deadly as all get out.

 

As the seals broke, he was able to squeeze more and more of his "hand" through the metaphysical "opening".

 

Just my take on it.

 

I don't think it would be that straightforward. It makes more sense to me that as the seals have broken, the DO's ability to warp reality has grown. So, SH didn't grow as a direct result of the DO's prison-patch shrinking and thus there being "more" of him in the world. Rather, he was able to inhabit a myrddraal in the first place because, due to the TP being involved in the creation of Shadowspawn, they're already unnatural and not quite "in phase" with reality. They don't really belong in the Pattern. As his ability to touch things grew, he was then able to remake his "Hand" into something even more unnatural, to the point where it was unnatural even for a myrddraal. Not unlike how he can alter the height of the cavern leading to the Pit of Doom and do other weird stuff like the crazy sky down there.

 

Or, he just screwed up with the original-recipe SH and later figured out a way to make something more in line with what he wanted. With the complete lack of information about SH's origins, there's really no way to know or do anything but guess.

Fair enough....I like your idea.

 

I guess I just kept it simple in my mind without worrying about the "how". You have a good explanation. :myrddraal:

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It always seemed to me that SH was like a Forsaken that the DO created rather than recruited. This would be an advantage because his loyalty would be unquestioned and he would follow his orders to the letter. We know that the Forsaken have strange ideas about loyalty and always incorporate their own schemes into whatever plans they are ordered to carry out. With the DO's touch on the world getting stronger he was finally able to create this perfect disciple.

 

Further, the only explanation for his abilities is the True Power. He basically channels but it is undetectable by both male and female channelers. We know that this is a special privilege granted by the DO. IMHO I think SH is ranked equally with Moridin. Or even slightly above.

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Has there been much discussion of the theory that Shaidar Haran is Demandred?

 

Don't think I have seen one, but I did see someone make a good case for Sharar Haran and Moridin being a Luc/Isam body share type deal. Don't see it myself, but he made a good case.

 

It seems to me that this issue of Shadar Haran is going to get very important. Without spoiling anything, I'll just say that something in ToM reinforces the interesting link that Fades share with the Dark One. Something unique to Fades, it seems. And with the question of maybe the True Power being used to seal the Bore, and what kind of relationship the True Power has when it comes to Fades(there does seem to be some connection) I have a feeling it's going to be connected in some way. Just not sure how....

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