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cap10kirk

Question about the forsaken in the Age of Legend

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Am I correct to assume that there were many many more Aes Sedai that went over to the shadow during the War of Power? There couldn't have been only thirteen. Hell, LTT had 100 male companions to help him seal the bore. The good guys were said to be losing when LTT and his 100 companions made their strike. So what happened to all the bad Aes Sedai?

Edited by cap10kirk

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There's really not much information. I can't recall where we learn this, probably the guide. But there were more than thirteen Forsaken. The ones that did not get trapped in the Bore were hunted down and killed during the Breaking. Even the names were forgotten during the upheaval.

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Thanks. I guess without the DO backing them up, the bad guys got knock off pretty quick. At least the females. When it came to the males, I guess it really didn't matter.

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Yea, all the males likely joined their light counterparts breaking the world. Remember how much of the OP it must have taken to manage what they did, they must have had massive numbers or angreal/sa'angreal that we do not know about or probably both.

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well due to infighting and growing amounts of insanity the shadow kinda of was disintregating until the breaking completely broke both sides (or so I am guessing)

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The males still would have had their cords to the DO that siphoned off the taint, so they shouldn't have gone insane from it. As to how many? Really all we know is that the 13 Forsaken who were sealed within the Bore were the upper echelon, but there were many more. Forsaken/Chosen was just the name given to Aes Sedai who went over to the DO during the War of Power.

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According to Moggy (A CoS), at least 29 people have been allowed to use the True Power.

There are RJ statements that there were other Forsaken just as strong as many of the 13 who got stuck in Shayol Ghul. Many of the men Forsaken died horribly going nuts. Others died natural/ unnatural deaths.

There's a difference between the Chosen who were given the mark that ensured shadowspawn obeyed them and other channelers sworn to the shadow. Even during the trolloc wars there were dreadlords - channelers who didn't have the Chosen Mark but could fight alongside fades and trollocs.

We've seen no clear evidence that the GLoD could siphon off saidin taint except with the men stuck in the Bore - if you accept RJ's statements that male channelers sworn to the shadow also died going nuts after the Strike, then He probably couldn't.

As far as we know, the GLoD didn't hand out Chosen marks either during the 3000K between the Breaking and the EotW. Maybe He couldn't touch the world in sufficient strength while the seals held.

Luckers has an interesting theory that Taim has the Chosen Mark and we know that Alviarin was marked by Shaidar Haran (not a Chosen mark but an invisible dog-tag that kept her safe from Shadowspawn).

Edited by Sharaman

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Here's what RJ said about AoL Forsaken and the Dreadlords back when he was doing a "Question of the Week" thing on the TOR site:

 

Week 12 Question:

In Winter's Heart, you mention that back in the Age of Legends, there were several other Forsaken that the Dark One had killed because he suspected they would betray him. What's their story? Were those people ever as high ranking as the thirteen survivors, or where they more like high-ranking Dreadlords then actual Forsaken?

Robert Jordan Answers:

 

First off, Dreadlords was the name given to men and women who could channel and sided with the Shadow in the Trolloc Wars. Yes, the women were called Dreadlords, too. They might have liked to call themselves "the Chosen," like the Forsaken, but feared to. The real Forsaken might not have appreciated it when they returned, as prophecies of the Shadow foretold would happen. Some of the Dreadlords had authority and responsibility equivalent to that of the Forsaken in the War of the Shadow, however. They ran the Shadow's side of the Trolloc Wars, though without the inherent ability to command the Myrddraal that the Forsaken possess, meaning they had to negotiate with them. Overall command at the beginning was in another's hands.

 

Forsaken was the name given to Aes Sedai who went over to the Shadow in the War of the Shadow at the end of the Age of Legends, though of course, they called themselves the Chosen, and despite the tales of the "current" Age, there were many more than a few of them. Since they occupied all sorts of levels, you might say that many were equivalent to some of the lesser Dreadlords, but it would be incorrect to call them so. At the time, they were all Forsaken—or Chosen—from the greatest to the least.

 

Some of those Forsaken the Dark One killed were every bit as high-ranking as the thirteen who were remembered, and who you might say constituted a large part of the Dark One's General Staff at the time of the sealing. With the Forsaken, where treachery and backstabbing were an acceptable way of getting ahead, the turnover in the upper ranks was fairly high, though Ishamael, Demandred, Lanfear, Graendal, Semirhage, and later Sammael, were always at the top end of the pyramid. They were very skilled at personal survival, politically and physically.

 

In large part the thirteen were remembered because they were trapped at Shayol Ghul, and so their names became part of that story, though it turned out that details of them, stories of them, survived wide-spread knowledge of the tale of the actual sealing itself. Just that they had been sealed away. Other Forsaken were left behind, so to speak, free but in a world that was rapidly sliding down the tube. The men eventually went mad and died from the same taint that killed off the other male Aes Sedai. They had no access to the Dark One's protective filters. The women died, too, though from age or in battle or from natural disasters created by insane male Aes Sedai or from diseases that could no longer be controlled because civilization itself had been destroyed and access to those who were skilled in Healing was all but gone. And soon after their deaths, their names were forgotten, except for what might possibly be discovered in some ancient manuscript fragment that survived the Breaking. A bleak story of people who deserved no better, and not worth telling in any detail.

Edited by didymos

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Here's what RJ said about AoL Forsaken and the Dreadlords back when he was doing a "Question of the Week" thing on the TOR site:

 

Week 12 Question:

In Winter's Heart, you mention that back in the Age of Legends, there were several other Forsaken that the Dark One had killed because he suspected they would betray him. What's their story? Were those people ever as high ranking as the thirteen survivors, or where they more like high-ranking Dreadlords then actual Forsaken?

Robert Jordan Answers:

 

First off, Dreadlords was the name given to men and women who could channel and sided with the Shadow in the Trolloc Wars. Yes, the women were called Dreadlords, too. They might have liked to call themselves "the Chosen," like the Forsaken, but feared to. The real Forsaken might not have appreciated it when they returned, as prophecies of the Shadow foretold would happen. Some of the Dreadlords had authority and responsibility equivalent to that of the Forsaken in the War of the Shadow, however. They ran the Shadow's side of the Trolloc Wars, though without the inherent ability to command the Myrddraal that the Forsaken possess, meaning they had to negotiate with them. Overall command at the beginning was in another's hands.

 

Forsaken was the name given to Aes Sedai who went over to the Shadow in the War of the Shadow at the end of the Age of Legends, though of course, they called themselves the Chosen, and despite the tales of the "current" Age, there were many more than a few of them. Since they occupied all sorts of levels, you might say that many were equivalent to some of the lesser Dreadlords, but it would be incorrect to call them so. At the time, they were all Forsaken—or Chosen—from the greatest to the least.

 

Some of those Forsaken the Dark One killed were every bit as high-ranking as the thirteen who were remembered, and who you might say constituted a large part of the Dark One's General Staff at the time of the sealing. With the Forsaken, where treachery and backstabbing were an acceptable way of getting ahead, the turnover in the upper ranks was fairly high, though Ishamael, Demandred, Lanfear, Graendal, Semirhage, and later Sammael, were always at the top end of the pyramid. They were very skilled at personal survival, politically and physically.

 

In large part the thirteen were remembered because they were trapped at Shayol Ghul, and so their names became part of that story, though it turned out that details of them, stories of them, survived wide-spread knowledge of the tale of the actual sealing itself. Just that they had been sealed away. Other Forsaken were left behind, so to speak, free but in a world that was rapidly sliding down the tube. The men eventually went mad and died from the same taint that killed off the other male Aes Sedai. They had no access to the Dark One's protective filters. The women died, too, though from age or in battle or from natural disasters created by insane male Aes Sedai or from diseases that could no longer be controlled because civilization itself had been destroyed and access to those who were skilled in Healing was all but gone. And soon after their deaths, their names were forgotten, except for what might possibly be discovered in some ancient manuscript fragment that survived the Breaking. A bleak story of people who deserved no better, and not worth telling in any detail.

Wow. Clears that up. Straight from THE MAN!! Thanks for sharing, Didymos.

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Wow. Clears that up. Straight from THE MAN!! Thanks for sharing, Didymos.

 

Sure. There's a lot more material like that quote I pasted. Theoryland has created a bunch of documents organized by topic, all consisting of RJ and BS quotes from signings, blog posts, letters, etc. Here's the link to the index:

 

http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=372

 

It's a really handy resource.

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