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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

The Other 5 Ages and Other Powers


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So, we know of only two ages for sure. The Age of Legends and the current age, The Third Age. So what about the other 5? The only thing I can began to imagine about them is that there will be "other powers" not necessarily sources like the One and True Powers but, other powers for sure. (Ill explain) Im not certain if people will be able to channel the One Power either in future ages... Im not saying it wont exsist, im saying that maybe there will be an age were no one is born with the ability to channel. But its also possible that there will be no such age.

 

Now, about the "other powers", the interview below will explain what I mean. After it, I will elaborate on it. (bear with me, I know its long)

 

Matt: Are there any other sources of Powers either within the Pattern or outside of the Wheel? Are there any sources like…

 

Brandon: ...sources much like the One Power and True Power?

 

Matt: Right.

 

Brandon: I will have to RAFO that.

 

Matt: Ok. You mentioned that Mordeth was a man that had "power". You are reported as saying that his power was that "which he got by seeking out all of the evil things that weren’t related to the Shadow"…

 

Brandon: ...he was seeking things that were related to the Shadow. I think that that might be a misquote. He was looking into the power of the Shadow in order to defeat it, was his goal. He was looking into everything. He was looking into things that were not necessarily related to the Dark One as well. He was looking for everything that he could get…

 

Matt: ...previous to him arriving to Aridhol?

 

Brandon: ...Yeah...

 

Matt: ...before he went to the King and became the counselor, Mordeth was this guy that went around searching for Power?

 

Brandon: Yeah, he wanted to defeat the Dark One and he felt that he could find other ways to do it […] He originally was good. He did not…he wasn’t this terrible person to begin with but he was looking to defeat the Dark One, to find a way to defeat the Shadow. And he looked into a lot of things he shouldn’t have looked into. There are evils that are not necessarily directly related to the Dark One, though everything evil kind of has…just as there are goods that are not related necessarily to the One Power…we are talking much as Perrin runs with wolves. This is a thing older than…there are other evils things that are old in a similar way…

 

Matt: ...is the assumption then that he found one of these?

 

Brandon: He did.

 

Matt: He found one or multiple?

 

Brandon: He found many things of darkness. There is one in specific that is driving him but he knew too much. He found things he should not have gotten into and that is what turned him into…when he got there he was already corrupt. He still thought he was doing a good work. He still thought we are going to raise this Kingdom up and it is going to become this bastion against the Shadow, but he was already by then corrupted.

 

[Hah - Maybe I should have asked if Mordeth was under the influence of the Finns...or at the very least if they were one of the powers he found in his quest... ]

 

Matt: Is this same corrupting influence what corrupts everyone through the dagger itself?

 

Brandon: Yeah. Through him. yes. And even through his presence.

 

Matt: I heard you answer a question last night, which sounded interesting. Someone asked about Padan Fain and Elaida.

 

Brandon: A lot of people don’t remember that they met.

 

Matt: So, his influence, how long for example…wasn’t Egwene exposed to Padan Fain? Are there still effects that Egwene has on people because of him?

 

Brandon: Remember the idea that people have, generally, a choice. There are ways to turn people to the Shadow against their will, but when that happens the person is no longer the person. What is happening with Padan Fain is, naturally tendencies can be exacerbated or they can be fought off...

 

Matt: ...so Elaida’s paranoia fed that? With someone like Egwene she might have fought it off, so it’s not going to be…

 

Brandon: ...right. exactly, or someone like Rand who continues to fight it off. He has become very paranoid. And the wound in his side, certainly someone could make the connection that that might have an influence. I won’t say for certain but…

 

Matt: ...so, the suggestion is not only does he have the taint, which is negatively influencing him, or influencing him in such ways that might bring on paranoia, there is this accentuation of it because of Fain…

 

Brandon: ...this corruption…I mean that wound and the dagger…

 

Matt: ...that is another source…

 

Brandon: ...Mat managed to fight it off pretty much completely, well not completely, but we don’t see Mat running around paranoid anymore…Elaida gave it something to feed upon and it was very very small and subtle with Elaida but certainly that was an influence.

 

Matt: Ok. Is Mordeth’s power, this evil power, comparable to the One Power and True Power? Is it a power that can be woven?

 

Brandon: No, it’s more something along the lines of Perrin’s wolf power, something more natural, you couldn’t weave Mordeth.

 

Matt: Ok, so it’s more of a natural…

 

Brandon: ...it’s more of a natural, though it is unnatural. It’s an unnatural natural thing…

 

Matt: ...because Jordan was really particular about…he tried to have a logic-based system as it pertained to the One Power. Is this power more supernatural in sense than it is based on physics?

 

Brandon: Let’s say more instinctual, alright?

 

Matt: Ok…which brings up the following questions about the Wheel and its relationship to souls, talents, abilities and channeling. Is the Wheel responsible for giving or weaving in Talents and Abilities to a particular life, or are they like channeling, attached to the soul?

 

Brandon: That’s an excellent question. I’m going to have to RAFO that…it’s actually more of a MAFO. What’s your asking is would someone who is reborn into the Pattern will have the same talents again?

 

Matt: Right. Or does…the Wheel, we obviously know it is very capable of affecting the Pattern, so the question is does it give and take when it comes to abilities and talents it needs?

 

Brandon: Yeah, right, I will have to MAFO that.

 

Matt: Ok, so can the Wheel give an individual life the ability to channel, if the soul does not come to that life with an inborn ability to learn or a spark? Can the Wheel give them that?

 

Brandon: Again, I will have to MAFO this whole thing. I will have to go and look. I don’t know if someone is necessarily always born with the ability to channel, if they are in every Age...

 

Matt: ...there is a quote I brought that we asked at DragonCon, Jordan said: “I dont think I have said if you are born with the spark you would have the have the spark again. I have said if you were born with the ability to channel, to learn or with the spark, you will, when your soul is born again, you will have the ability again, whether with the spark or without….” So, in essence he said it’s inherent you have the ability. Whether or not you Spark or you can learn it that depends on the life.

 

Brandon: My instinct knowing how Jim wrote and knowing the parallels in the notes would be that he would parallel the other talents along the same lines. A wolf brother then would always have the ability to become a wolf brother and other things along those lines. I’m going off of instinct so that is an asterisked answer. I can MAFO that and look it up and we can see what we can find, but he did like to parallel a lot of these things...

 

So, these "other powers" we dont know exactly what these will be but we do know that some of these powers are evil (Mordeth's, some neutral (Perrin's), and some im assuming good. Maybe there is another power like the true source, but I doubt it.

 

What I am trying to point out here is this: we only know of two ages, the other 5 could have nothing to do with the Dark One. Yes, the eternal war between good and evil will continue, but it doesn't have to relate to the dark one; as the interview above just proved, there are other evils out there.

 

Your thoughts? Theories about the other 5 ages? Big question here: Do you think that the wheel of time series can continue but just set in a different age?

 

Side note: Link to the full interview: http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2714

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Has it been stated somewhere that the Wheel of Time repeats itself exactly through the ages?

 

I agree that time is cyclical in the WoT universe but I don't think that means it has to be *identically* cyclical. I.E. Rand isn't always called Rand; and he isn't always a dragon in the 3rd age. Furthermore, the 3rd age is a human construct of the Wheel. As in, people living at the time name the ages and their demarcations, they are completely abstract (although they probably have fairly logical "beginnings" and "ends" in terms of events like, well the breaking etc.). The events that take place in the books are called the 3rd age solely because people in the "4th" age called it that.

 

Has it been stated somewhere that there are only 5 ages?

 

I ask only because there is no inherent or obvious reason as to why there is only 5. Why not millions? I never got the impression that the times cycled quickly in the WoT universe; they merely do eventually.

 

An exceedingly long cycle that isn't exactly identical each and every full turn appeals to my senses much more. But WoT isn't my universe, so if it was said somewhere that it repeats identically and there are only 5 ages...well...I'll get over it.

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Has it been stated somewhere that the Wheel of Time repeats itself exactly through the ages?

 

I agree that time is cyclical in the WoT universe but I don't think that means it has to be *identically* cyclical. I.E. Rand isn't always called Rand; and he isn't always a dragon in the 3rd age. Furthermore, the 3rd age is a human construct of the Wheel. As in, people living at the time name the ages and their demarcations, they are completely abstract (although they probably have fairly logical "beginnings" and "ends" in terms of events like, well the breaking etc.). The events that take place in the books are called the 3rd age solely because people in the "4th" age called it that.

 

Has it been stated somewhere that there are only 5 ages?

 

I ask only because there is no inherent or obvious reason as to why there is only 5. Why not millions? I never got the impression that the times cycled quickly in the WoT universe; they merely do eventually.

 

An exceedingly long cycle that isn't exactly identical each and every full turn appeals to my senses much more. But WoT isn't my universe, so if it was said somewhere that it repeats identically and there are only 5 ages...well...I'll get over it.

 

Well I agree in that the Wheel doesn't repeat itself the same way everytime, but I do believe that BIG events in ages repeat, such as the dark one's seal being bored into and such, otherwise it wouldn't be a wheel. But yes, it is stated somewhere (im not sure exactly where) that there are seven spokes to the wheel of time, each representing an age.

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The first age appears to be our age (the names of the stories Thom told on Winternight).

 

The ages repeat-sort of. They are like looking at a distorted mirror, the big picture is the same but the details are different. And we know something unique can occur (Fain is utterly unique to this turning, he is something new).

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There's actually 7 ages. We only know about 4 of them.

1st age - The age before the Age of Legends.

2nd Age - The age of legend

3rd Age - Present time in the series

4th age - The age after the last battle.

 

I can't find anything about the other ages.

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Has it been stated somewhere that the Wheel of Time repeats itself exactly through the ages?

 

I agree that time is cyclical in the WoT universe but I don't think that means it has to be *identically* cyclical. I.E. Rand isn't always called Rand; and he isn't always a dragon in the 3rd age. Furthermore, the 3rd age is a human construct of the Wheel. As in, people living at the time name the ages and their demarcations, they are completely abstract (although they probably have fairly logical "beginnings" and "ends" in terms of events like, well the breaking etc.). The events that take place in the books are called the 3rd age solely because people in the "4th" age called it that.

 

Has it been stated somewhere that there are only 5 ages?

 

I ask only because there is no inherent or obvious reason as to why there is only 5. Why not millions? I never got the impression that the times cycled quickly in the WoT universe; they merely do eventually.

 

An exceedingly long cycle that isn't exactly identical each and every full turn appeals to my senses much more. But WoT isn't my universe, so if it was said somewhere that it repeats identically and there are only 5 ages...well...I'll get over it.

 

Well I agree in that the Wheel doesn't repeat itself the same way everytime, but I do believe that BIG events in ages repeat, such as the dark one's seal being bored into and such, otherwise it wouldn't be a wheel. But yes, it is stated somewhere (im not sure exactly where) that there are seven spokes to the wheel of time, each representing an age.

 

I seem to remember reading that a new age looks like the previous one in broad outlines, but in terms of details (the people's appearances, personalities I would presume the cultures and political situations as well) they would be different. But the ages would grow more and more different with each passing of the wheel. I think I read it on the blog.

Edited by threadnecromancer
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Yeah the Wheel repeats a general pattern of events which is what makes Time a Wheel, but the conditions of those events will inevitably change with each turning.

 

For example look at Fain and his involuntary sidestepping of the Pattern, which came about because he was touched by two unnatural forces, the Dark One and the Shadar Logoth evil. i have always seen Fains powers as something similar to channeling. I AM NOT SAYING FAIN CAN CHANNEL. But while his ability was somewhat described as an old thing like Perrins Wolfbrother ability, an old thing, Fains ability seems much more versatile than many things we have seen. For example Slayer can do a couple of things with his T'A'R ability, Perrin has a few things, but Fain can do allsorts of stuff. Rand disabled one of his traps in TGH, and the description of that event was very similar to the cutting of weaves. fain cannot channel the True Source or the True Power, but I think he shares many qualities of those who can. Shadar Logoth is an opposite evil power to the True Power. Whether another entity was involved I dont know, but I see it as a very strong possibility.

 

Fain is unique. That only means nobody has combined the Dark Ones power with Shadar Logoths power. There could easily have been some other unique guy that sidestepped the Pattern before, they just didnt do it how Fain did. Look at Ishamael for example, he had become less than half human, I imagine that he was becoming Shadowspawn. Has anyone else done that before? Id like to think not, that makes him unique in his Ba'alzamonness, considering that it wasnt an illusion. Fire really had been spouting in his face. Losing your humanity IMO means losing your of-the-Patternness, which would mean Ishamael was becoming a creature no of the Pattern, possibly having been on the verge of sidestepping it himself before his reincarnation. He would still have been unique, and so would Fain. But just because Fain is unique doesnt mean he is the first to sidestep the Pattern, indeed I think its possible that the Pattern pushed him towards this. The Dark One binds a hound to Rand, the Pattern reacts by making the hound go to Shadar Logoth, where it comes into contact with a power that hates the Dark One. The Dark Ones weapon is no longer his, and not only does it now want revenge on the Dark One, it has the power to get it.

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Alright cool, glad to see that my general impression of the WoT universe was correct. Thanks guys

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i have always seen Fains powers as something similar to channeling. I AM NOT SAYING FAIN CAN CHANNEL. But while his ability was somewhat described as an old thing like Perrins Wolfbrother ability, an old thing.

 

Whether another entity was involved I dont know, but I see it as a very strong possibility

 

Exactly. Thats what I am trying to get at. We know that each age has a vague set pattern to follow. We only know of what happens in two of the seven ages for sure. So wouldn't it be possible for the dark one to be sealed away for five ages and then when the "Age of Legends" comes again, his influence spreads into the world again. But during the other five ages there is some other entity or maybe multiple different entities of evil, such as the evil of Shadiar Logath. And because the pattern knows that this new age is coming it starts preparing for it, thats why we see people with all these "new" special abilities; Min's views, Wolf Brothers, The Sniffer, ect.

 

See, I believe that Mordeth actually found one of these entities or maybe its just some kind of power, but anyways, he found it and tapped into it somehow, much like how Lanfear tapped into the bore. The difference is however, he didn't release it into the world, only into himself, but it is contagious. I think, that in one of the other ages, that that same evil will be release on a widespread.

 

Any thoughts or questions on my theory? Please comment, I would really like to hear what people think of this.

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See, I believe that Mordeth actually found one of these entities or maybe its just some kind of power, but anyways, he found it and tapped into it somehow, much like how Lanfear tapped into the bore. The difference is however, he didn't release it into the world, only into himself, but it is contagious. I think, that in one of the other ages, that that same evil will be release on a widespread.

 

It could easily be Fain that spouts that evil. Rand in TGS thinks he knows how to kill the Dark One, but Moridin said "wrong, idiot." I think the world is the Pattern is the prison, and that the world-prison-Pattern needs something to contain in order to keep existing, that it is just a big shield that would dissipate without a live channeler to cut off. If Rand were to kill the Dark One he would need something else to imprison, which is why evil is as necessary as good. An evil entity is required to imprison, otherwise imprisoning a good entity will surely be pointless and in itself an act of evil. Fains presence generates a corruption that, when it comes to it, must be contained. How likely is Fain to die in the series do we think? I think either Shai'tan or Padan Fain will die, but not both. It could even be that Shaidar and Fain were both imprisoned, I think it would be awesome if Callandor and the Ruby Dagger were to become relics of Tarmon Gaidon and were the next Chosens avenues to weakening the prison, the next Dragon prophecies being saying something like "The land will be poisoned with his coming, and in his hands he will wield blades of madness and corruption." Blades that have already marked him in his past life.

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I think the world is the Pattern is the prison, and that the world-prison-Pattern needs something to contain in order to keep existing, that it is just a big shield that would dissipate without a live channeler to cut off. If Rand were to kill the Dark One he would need something else to imprison, which is why evil is as necessary as good. An evil entity is required to imprison, otherwise imprisoning a good entity will surely be pointless and in itself an act of evil. Fains presence generates a corruption that, when it comes to it, must be contained. How likely is Fain to die in the series do we think? I think either Shai'tan or Padan Fain will die, but not both. It could even be that Shaidar and Fain were both imprisoned, I think it would be awesome if Callandor and the Ruby Dagger were to become relics of Tarmon Gaidon and were the next Chosens avenues to weakening the prison, the next Dragon prophecies being saying something like "The land will be poisoned with his coming, and in his hands he will wield blades of madness and corruption." Blades that have already marked him in his past life.

 

Thats an interesting theory... but wouldn't killing the dark one distribute the Wheel of Time completely to the point that it stopped.. I dont think it is actually possible to kill the Dark One; contain him to the point where his influence doesnt even seep into the world, yes. But actually killing him... How would the 3rd age come again then? I could be completely off, please enlighten me if so.

 

However, I do like this theory of one evil imprisoning another..

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I think the world is the Pattern is the prison, and that the world-prison-Pattern needs something to contain in order to keep existing, that it is just a big shield that would dissipate without a live channeler to cut off. If Rand were to kill the Dark One he would need something else to imprison, which is why evil is as necessary as good. An evil entity is required to imprison, otherwise imprisoning a good entity will surely be pointless and in itself an act of evil. Fains presence generates a corruption that, when it comes to it, must be contained. How likely is Fain to die in the series do we think? I think either Shai'tan or Padan Fain will die, but not both. It could even be that Shaidar and Fain were both imprisoned, I think it would be awesome if Callandor and the Ruby Dagger were to become relics of Tarmon Gaidon and were the next Chosens avenues to weakening the prison, the next Dragon prophecies being saying something like "The land will be poisoned with his coming, and in his hands he will wield blades of madness and corruption." Blades that have already marked him in his past life.

 

Thats an interesting theory... but wouldn't killing the dark one distribute the Wheel of Time completely to the point that it stopped.. I dont think it is actually possible to kill the Dark One; contain him to the point where his influence doesnt even seep into the world, yes. But actually killing him... How would the 3rd age come again then? I could be completely off, please enlighten me if so.

 

However, I do like this theory of one evil imprisoning another..

 

The Third Age could come again by the Dark One being dead apart from the bit that is in Shaidar, Shaidar cant channel the True Power anymore, which means he is weaker than Fain, over time their evils react but Fains is stronger so Shaidar becomes Fains biatch. Shaidar is the next Ishamael. Moridin may have survived the Last Battle and come the next Third Age he would be that Ages Fain, having been searching for a way to bring Shai'tan back through Shaidar. Moridin wouldnt want the next Rand to draw Callandor from the next Stone of Tear, he would want him to find Fains Dagger, because that makes one become all hateful and suspicious and would lead up to this new Rands darkening and the buildup to the next TGS. He delves into the darkness of both blades, stands on his old grave at Shayol Ghul-which is now the next Dragonmount-decides that Fains Dagger is good against Shadowspawn only whereas Callandor can deal with both Fain AND Shaidar, so he throws the Dagger into the Pit of Doom, remembers trust before it is too late, and then performs the task he was born for. He becomes connected with Shaidar Haran, who is Fains version of Ishamael, gains the powers relating to Shaidar and Fain due to Shaidar being corrupted by Fains power, which is the next equivalent of the True Power. Through gaining access to this evil force, which is a remnant of the True Power and Shadar Logoth taints put together, but in two halves like the One Power, the next Rand figures out that his True Power access allows yet another solution, sacrificing himself to make "three become one," those three being himself, Fain and Shaidar. The next Age ends with that Rand merging with Fain and Shaidar simultaneously, and Moridin-Moridin that we see now would be acting as a wildcard as he discovered how to harness Shaidars evil through his ability to channel.

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The Third Age could come again by the Dark One being dead apart from the bit that is in Shaidar, Shaidar cant channel the True Power anymore, which means he is weaker than Fain, over time their evils react but Fains is stronger so Shaidar becomes Fains biatch. Shaidar is the next Ishamael. Moridin may have survived the Last Battle and come the next Third Age he would be that Ages Fain, having been searching for a way to bring Shai'tan back through Shaidar. Moridin wouldnt want the next Rand to draw Callandor from the next Stone of Tear, he would want him to find Fains Dagger, because that makes one become all hateful and suspicious and would lead up to this new Rands darkening and the buildup to the next TGS. He delves into the darkness of both blades, stands on his old grave at Shayol Ghul-which is now the next Dragonmount-decides that Fains Dagger is good against Shadowspawn only whereas Callandor can deal with both Fain AND Shaidar, so he throws the Dagger into the Pit of Doom, remembers trust before it is too late, and then performs the task he was born for. He becomes connected with Shaidar Haran, who is Fains version of Ishamael, gains the powers relating to Shaidar and Fain due to Shaidar being corrupted by Fains power, which is the next equivalent of the True Power. Through gaining access to this evil force, which is a remnant of the True Power and Shadar Logoth taints put together, but in two halves like the One Power, the next Rand figures out that his True Power access allows yet another solution, sacrificing himself to make "three become one," those three being himself, Fain and Shaidar. The next Age ends with that Rand merging with Fain and Shaidar simultaneously, and Moridin-Moridin that we see now would be acting as a wildcard as he discovered how to harness Shaidars evil through his ability to channel.

An extremely interesting theory but I find that highly unlikely. No disrespect meant but, I cant find any of it likely to happen. However, I do appreciate you taking time to share your thoughts.

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i have always seen Fains powers as something similar to channeling. I AM NOT SAYING FAIN CAN CHANNEL. But while his ability was somewhat described as an old thing like Perrins Wolfbrother ability, an old thing.

 

Whether another entity was involved I dont know, but I see it as a very strong possibility

 

Exactly. Thats what I am trying to get at. We know that each age has a vague set pattern to follow. We only know of what happens in two of the seven ages for sure. So wouldn't it be possible for the dark one to be sealed away for five ages and then when the "Age of Legends" comes again, his influence spreads into the world again. But during the other five ages there is some other entity or maybe multiple different entities of evil, such as the evil of Shadiar Logath. And because the pattern knows that this new age is coming it starts preparing for it, thats why we see people with all these "new" special abilities; Min's views, Wolf Brothers, The Sniffer, ect.

 

See, I believe that Mordeth actually found one of these entities or maybe its just some kind of power, but anyways, he found it and tapped into it somehow, much like how Lanfear tapped into the bore. The difference is however, he didn't release it into the world, only into himself, but it is contagious. I think, that in one of the other ages, that that same evil will be release on a widespread.

 

Any thoughts or questions on my theory? Please comment, I would really like to hear what people think of this.

Interesting theory, but unfortunately "how the book ends" is way to wide open at this point for me to really speculate on with any sort of educated guess.

 

I do think Fain will have a huge role to play though.

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Interesting theory, but unfortunately "how the book ends" is way to wide open at this point for me to really speculate on with any sort of educated guess.

 

I do think Fain will have a huge role to play though.

Hmmm. Well, thats true. But I just like to look ahead, and when I look that far, I just assume that all went well with Rand and the Last Battle, that he managed to FULLY seal away the dark one.

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i always thought the taint is the creation of simply being human, far worse than the dark one since humans have the ability to become creators.

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i always thought the taint is the creation of simply being human, far worse than the dark one since humans have the ability to become creators.

Well, in the interview above it is stated that mordeth found the taint, and that it was similar to wolf brothers, so I don't think it is a human creation.

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Rand disabled one of his traps in TGH, and the description of that event was very similar to the cutting of weaves.

 

That was Lanfear's trap I believe?

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Rand disabled one of his traps in TGH, and the description of that event was very similar to the cutting of weaves.

 

That was Lanfear's trap I believe?

 

The repeating time loop thing with the family being killed and the flies? That was Fain's doing. RJ talked about it on a couple occasions. I don't get why people still assumed it was Lanfear once they'd finished the novel. I can see it being plausible before the ending, but not after. That's clearly not the sort of thing you do to someone you're (psychotically) in love with and looking to convert into your eternally devoted love-slave.

Edited by didymos
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Thats an interesting theory... but wouldn't killing the dark one distribute the Wheel of Time completely to the point that it stopped.. I dont think it is actually possible to kill the Dark One; contain him to the point where his influence doesnt even seep into the world, yes. But actually killing him... How would the 3rd age come again then? I could be completely off, please enlighten me if so.

 

However, I do like this theory of one evil imprisoning another..

 

Some people speculate that the reason RJ wrote about this age specifically is that Rand, in defeating the dark one (which we guess will happen), may do something that causes time to be linear rather than cyclical. This way the people of WoT world wouldn't have to continually rebuild after the breaking that happens every seven ages. Does that make sense at all? I'm not a huge fan of this theory, as I can't think of how it would work and the cyclicity (word?) of time seems to just be part of the world, not something that can be changed. And I'm more of a "wait and find out" kinda guy rather than a "speculate like crazy" kinda guy. :/

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The repeating time loop thing with the family being killed and the flies? That was Fain's doing. RJ talked about it on a couple occasions. I don't get why people still assumed it was Lanfear once they'd finished the novel. I can see it being plausible before the ending, but not after. That's clearly not the sort of thing you do to someone you're (psychotically) in love with and looking to convert into your eternally devoted love-slave.

 

Interesting. My views on Fain have radically changed.. now I don't know what to think of him :tongue:! But I think Lanfear is the one who made perfect sense to have done it. Whilst we know that she was obsessed with Lews Therin, she was trying to get Rand to Channel. What better way that place him in a trap where he would need to Channel? It's why she took him to the Mirror World after all.

Edited by Jon Paul
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Whilst we know that she was obsessed with Lews Therin, she was trying to get Rand to Channel. What better way that place him in a trap where he would need to Channel? It's why she took him to the Mirror World after all.

 

That's a good point. And, yeah, Lanfear definitely was willing to endanger Rand if she thought it would "help". Plus, it just occurred to me that she could have easily been lurking, ready to bail Rand out if he didn't extricate himself. I think that he even caught a glimpse of her there, shortly before that happened. Or was that later? Guess it's moot, though, since RJ said it was Fain. Still, I get why people were keen on Lanfear as the culprit now.

Edited by didymos
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Whilst we know that she was obsessed with Lews Therin, she was trying to get Rand to Channel. What better way that place him in a trap where he would need to Channel? It's why she took him to the Mirror World after all.

 

That's a good point. And, yeah, Lanfear definitely was willing to endanger Rand if she thought it would "help". Plus, it just occurred to me that she could have easily been lurking, ready to bail Rand out if he didn't extricate himself. I think that he even caught a glimpse of her there, shortly before that happened. Or was that later? Guess it's moot, though, since RJ said it was Fain. Still, I get why people were keen on Lanfear as the culprit now.

Cool but, a little off topic...

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There's actually 7 ages. We only know about 4 of them.

1st age - The age before the Age of Legends.

2nd Age - The age of legend

3rd Age - Present time in the series

4th age - The age after the last battle.

 

Something that has been bothering me since I started reading the series (was that only a year ago??) derives from this:

 

"The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again."

Since 'even myth is long forgotten', how do the inhabitants of Randland know about the Wheel and the 7 Ages?

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There's actually 7 ages. We only know about 4 of them.

1st age - The age before the Age of Legends.

2nd Age - The age of legend

3rd Age - Present time in the series

4th age - The age after the last battle.

 

Something that has been bothering me since I started reading the series (was that only a year ago??) derives from this:

 

"The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again."

Since 'even myth is long forgotten', how do the inhabitants of Randland know about the Wheel and the 7 Ages?

 

This is kinda hilarious in its own way, but a lot of it had to do with Ishahmael before he became Chosen. A lot of the idea of cyclical time came from his own philosophies and books iirc. So, a Chosen had a good deal to do with the spiritual beliefs of present day Randland. Kinda ironic.

 

I could be mistaken about this, of course, but that was always the impression I had and I know I read it on the WoTmania FAQ a few years ago, or something like it.

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