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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

The Creator's prison


AllAdamB
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I started thinking about the Dark One's prison and how Lanfear made the bore using the One Power. They were looking for a power that both men and women could use (True Power ). It brought me to wonder how the One Power had been discovered in the first place. Perhaps the source of power was discovered while researchers were trying to find an alternative energy source. Maybe through the use of some forgotten technology, someone created a bore into where the Creator was. This might be the key to sealing back up the DO. They may need to seal back up the Creator. Another thought. What if the seals of the DO's prison also partially sealed up the Creator's prison. This might explain some of the general weakening of the power in Aes Sedai after the AOL and why now that the seals are breaking, why we are finding stronger channelers and a rediscovery of lost Talents.

Thoughts?

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Hi, welcome to the forums! Hope you have a good time here!

 

As for this theory. I am afraid you are mistaken on almost all of the points. (Sorry)

 

1. The Creator is not imprisoned.

 

2. The OP is not the Creator's power. The OP is "the force that drives the Wheel of Time." Think of it as fuel for a car. It is a natural energy source, similar to oxygen. (in so far as it is something that is jsut a part of nature.)

 

3. There were other ages that "forgot" the OP, but that does not mean that it wasnt there. It means the people lost all knowledge of it, and did not know how to channel, not that it disappeared.

 

I am afraid that the theory is incorrect.

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Are these things that Jordan confirmed somewhere? I realize that there are certain things that the characters assume I just wonder if anyone asked these questions and what the responses were. One of the prevailing themes of the series is how information is lost over time. "Rediscovery" of the One Power could have been by drilling a hole into the source of it. The OP could turn the Wheel and still be inaccessible to the masses. Remember in tEotW everyone in Randland "knew" that the DO and the forsaken were bound at the moment of creation, but that wasn't true either.

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Are these things that Jordan confirmed somewhere? I realize that there are certain things that the characters assume I just wonder if anyone asked these questions and what the responses were. One of the prevailing themes of the series is how information is lost over time. "Rediscovery" of the One Power could have been by drilling a hole into the source of it. The OP could turn the Wheel and still be inaccessible to the masses. Remember in tEotW everyone in Randland "knew" that the DO and the forsaken were bound at the moment of creation, but that wasn't true either.

 

(Ok, this may sound snarky, but I assure you it is not)

 

Usually when people post, we all know that characters are grossly misinformed. So when someone makes a statement saying "no, this is like this...." it is based on hard evidence.

 

RJ has confirmed these things in the Wheel of Time Guide and through interviews.

 

Here is a few relevant quotes that I can find off the top of my head

 

Crossroads of Twilight book tour 18 January 2003, Harvard Coop - Tallis reporting

 

Rand has no direct connection with the Creator. The Creator is completely removed from the world; aside from ... creating ... the

Pattern, he does nothing else whatsoever to influence anything.

 

AOL Chat #1 - 27 June 1996

 

 

Shosh001 asks: Mr. Jordan, you've outdone yourself with A Crown of Swords. My question concerns the True Power. How is it distinguishable from the One Power?

RJ: It's fairly self-evident from the book. What can be done with the True Power is very similar to what can be done with the One Power. Except that where the One Power is drawn from the True Source and is the force that drives the Wheel of Time and powers the universe, the so-called True Power is drawn from the Dark One. There are limits in the same ways there are limits to the One Power. It would be very long if I went into it too much, but some of those limits and costs of drawing on the Dark One are shown in A Crown of Swords.

 

Fallon Blood book signing 12 October 1996, Joseph-Beth Booksellers, Cincinnati, OH - Michael Martin reporting

 

Re: the Creator's "Inability" To Act On His Creation...Having encountered a similar "theology" in Donaldson's Covenant series, I have been quite curious why the Creator can't act on His own world. It didn't seem to make sense, except as a plot device. RJ answered this question. His thesis was this: A perfect Creator should create a perfect creation. To act, miraculously or no, on this world, would be tantamount to acknowleding imperfection in Himself. So, when humanity screwed things up, they've been left on their own to "patch" things up.

 

If you need more than that, I suggest you take a look at theoryland's Interview Database, it is excellent, here is the link

http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=372

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More thoughts.

Many people believe that this age will end with the loss of the OP. How could this happen? Will everyone just forget that they can channel? If channeling is lost, something has to cause it.

Also the idea that the Creator actually made the universe and sealed up the DO means that the was THE beginning. And that there has to eventually be THE end at some point. If there truly are neither beginnings nor endings to the wheel, then it is more likely that the DO is simply reimprisoned every turning and possible then that the Creator or at the least the True Source is freed every time as well.

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Sorry Barid, but your points 1 and 3 are unproven and invalid. :wink:

 

haha, touche. :biggrin:

 

Do we need 4 quotes saying water is wet ? :tongue:

 

More thoughts.

Many people believe that this age will end with the loss of the OP. How could this happen? Will everyone just forget that they can channel? If channeling is lost, something has to cause it.

Also the idea that the Creator actually made the universe and sealed up the DO means that the was THE beginning. And that there has to eventually be THE end at some point. If there truly are neither beginnings nor endings to the wheel, then it is more likely that the DO is simply reimprisoned every turning and possible then that the Creator or at the least the True Source is freed every time as well.

 

AS for the loss of the OP. I dont believe the OP can be destroyed. In fact I am damn near certain its impossible (but I do not have a direct statement that proves it, unfortunately). As for "losing" the OP. Well thats pretty much impossible aswell. Even if everyone gets severed, when children are born and spark, the severed people will still have the knowledge of the OP. The only way its even remotely possible is if somehow they manage a mass stilling and shield the earth from the OP. (Whihc im pretty sure is impossible.)

 

As for the begginings and end. It follows logic, I agree, but I dont think its quite right.

 

Look at the "Wheel of Time". Its like a wheel, 7 spokes go round and round and round in an endless cycle.

 

Think of it as a car wheel.

 

The manufacturer (the creator) has to make the wheel first. When the wheel is fitted however, it will keep spinning and spinning until it breaks.

 

Now its not like a car wheel in that the WoT doesnt wear out or get rusty. However, the DO wants to stick a stick in the spokes, thus breaking the wheel.

 

However, if the DO cannot break the wheel, it keeps spinning and spinning.

 

HOpefully that makes sense.

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From the Theoryland Database

Matt: Did the Creator or does the Creator use the One Power to create?

Brandon: RAFO.

Matt: Can it be said that the Pattern was created by and infused with the One Power?

Brandon: RAFO.

Matt: I know you’ll RAFO this one but I’ll ask it anyway. Does the Creator, for a lack of a better word, 'weave' the One Power?

Brandon: RAFO.

Matt: Ok. I’ll jump off the Creator for the moment...

Brandon: How about this, I do know...Robert Jordan...there are answers to these things that you are wanting to know…

Matt: Do you believe they ever will be discussed, like Encyclopedia type of things, or do you believe…

Brandon: He did not want to leave explicit answers about a lot of these things. There will be hints. So, they are a double RAFO because they are the sort of things Robert Jordan did not like to answer and they could spoil things […] Double RAFO.

[Hah - I got a DRAFO]

Matt: Ok, so, what is then the nature of the Dark One’s relationship with the True Power? In other words...is he the Power or it is separate like the One Power?

Brandon: When people bored into his prison they were searching for a new source of power, they found him. Alright? Now, that leaves a strong implication that the True Power is the essence of the Dark One. The True Power when it is used rips apart the Pattern to rebuild it as it desires. The True Power is very destructive to the Pattern. It leaves scars on the Pattern. Robert Jordan said in an interview or maybe it was actually in the books, when you make a gateway with the True Power you are actually ripping a hole in the Pattern and going somewhere else. When you are using the True Power that is what you are doing, it is contrary to the Pattern. That is not a direct answer to your question but I think there are enough implications in there that certain things can be discussed.

[i realize now, after listening to Brandon’s answer that I was making an assumption about the One Power too, that it is separate from the Creator because of what we have been given in the books and the BWB, but I should have asked if instead the One Power is the essence of the Creator...

 

How the One Power was discovered is never revealed and its relation to the Creator is kept under wraps.

 

Question: In essence, are One Power and True Power balefire the same?

Answer: He answered that the True Power is another source of power, that Aes Sedai were researching another source, like a different form of battery, to power their weaves and that in for balefire, what it does is essentially the same between both Power sources, but that it has different affects on the individual using the Power source (this appeared to be a reference to what True Power does to its user).

 

Draws a strong parallel between the OP and the TP. Perhaps even if the Creator were not bound, perhaps access to the True Source is blocked until sufficient technology exists to create a gateway to it.

 

At some point, the ability to channel has to be lost in the turning of the wheel and what better way than sealing off access to the True Source at the end of the age with no ability to reopen that access? I like the thought of Technology leads to Magic, Technology lost, Magic Lost, Rediscover Technology, Repeat.

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AS for the loss of the OP. I dont believe the OP can be destroyed. In fact I am damn near certain its impossible (but I do not have a direct statement that proves it, unfortunately). As for "losing" the OP. Well thats pretty much impossible aswell. Even if everyone gets severed, when children are born and spark, the severed people will still have the knowledge of the OP. The only way its even remotely possible is if somehow they manage a mass stilling and shield the earth from the OP. (Whihc im pretty sure is impossible.)

 

Well, we know for a fact that some ages went without the OP, don't we? By your reasoning here, there is no way that people can really lose the OP because sparkers/learners will always be born.

 

But if people are somehow cut off from the OP that doesn't mean that it has to be "gone." The TP was never "gone" even when it was sealed away, it just didn't touch the physical world. I don't think it's so ridiculous to think that the OP could be in some sense--not necessarily the same sense as the TP--sealed away. Just because it is "sealed" so that humans don't have access to it doesn't mean it loses its importance to turning the Wheel, does it?

 

Perhaps, in true Wheel fashion, the OP is used to completely seal the DO away, and so people forget about it... but eventually they rediscover this "energy" force that is the OP and start tapping it, which inevitably leads to the DO coming back to the world. See that, there? An endless cycle!

 

I mean, I personally can't see any way that humanity loses channeling unless it is (a) sealed away or (b) every channeler drops dead and isn't reborn for quite a while.

 

Maybe that just means humanity gets decimated almost to extinction, or something similarly extreme like that.

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AS for the loss of the OP. I dont believe the OP can be destroyed. In fact I am damn near certain its impossible (but I do not have a direct statement that proves it, unfortunately). As for "losing" the OP. Well thats pretty much impossible aswell. Even if everyone gets severed, when children are born and spark, the severed people will still have the knowledge of the OP. The only way its even remotely possible is if somehow they manage a mass stilling and shield the earth from the OP. (Whihc im pretty sure is impossible.)

 

Well, we know for a fact that some ages went without the OP, don't we? By your reasoning here, there is no way that people can really lose the OP because sparkers/learners will always be born.

 

But if people are somehow cut off from the OP that doesn't mean that it has to be "gone." The TP was never "gone" even when it was sealed away, it just didn't touch the physical world. I don't think it's so ridiculous to think that the OP could be in some sense--not necessarily the same sense as the TP--sealed away. Just because it is "sealed" so that humans don't have access to it doesn't mean it loses its importance to turning the Wheel, does it?

 

Perhaps, in true Wheel fashion, the OP is used to completely seal the DO away, and so people forget about it... but eventually they rediscover this "energy" force that is the OP and start tapping it, which inevitably leads to the DO coming back to the world. See that, there? An endless cycle!

 

I mean, I personally can't see any way that humanity loses channeling unless it is (a) sealed away or (b) every channeler drops dead and isn't reborn for quite a while.

 

Maybe that just means humanity gets decimated almost to extinction, or something similarly extreme like that.

 

Yeah, tahts what I meant by the only way is having them "sealed off" from the OP. AS you say, it owuld be much like the sealing of the DO/TP.

 

he only way its even remotely possible is if somehow they manage a mass stilling and shield the earth from the OP.

 

Basically what you pointed out.

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BBM -- The reason I pretty much reiterated and attempted to expound on what you said is because you were discounting AllAdamB's theory on the grounds that (A) the creator is not the OP, and (b) the OP never "disappeared." But take out the word Creator from Adam's original post and just say "OP" and it doesn't seem like a stretch to find a very strong connection between what you're saying and what he's saying. Just seemed like you were arguing that he was wrong while unintentionally agreeing with him. So, me being the nosy guy I am, I butted in. Hoorah!

 

Seriously though, I think we all see the same problems here and are heading toward the same solution. I don't find Adam's theory to be in the realm of impossible if you discount the use of the word "Creator." In fact, that seems a pretty valid explanation for the cycle of losing/finding the OP.

 

If indeed the OP is lost because of the way the DO has been sealed time and time again, and if indeed in rediscovering it they unleash the DO, then there's a problem.

 

And before we run into the snag of the DO being present in the non-channeling ages (I'm not sure this has been confirmed, but why wouldn't he be present?), I don't think there is any one solution to sealing him up or combating him (what about the wolfbrother stuff, and Mat's magics, and Mordeth's magics? All those might be used to repel him, or at the very least hold him off until channeling is discovered, no?), so that could account a bit of variability in the cycle while still leaving Adam's theory correct for many turnings.

Edited by sdelu
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BBM -- The reason I pretty much reiterated and attempted to expound on what you said is because you were discounting AllAdamB's theory on the grounds that (A) the creator is not the OP, and (b) the OP never "disappeared." But take out the word Creator from Adam's original post and just say "OP" and it doesn't seem like a stretch to find a very strong connection between what you're saying and what he's saying. Just seemed like you were arguing that he was wrong while unintentionally agreeing with him. So, me being the nosy guy I am, I butted in. Hoorah!

 

Seriously though, I think we all see the same problems here and are heading toward the same solution. I don't find Adam's theory to be in the realm of impossible if you discount the use of the word "Creator."

 

I see what your saying. Fair enough. I suppose it is not impossible, even though I think it is the closest thing to.

 

But yeah, take out the "Creator" part and replace it with "True Source" or something, then yes, its definitely vaild.

 

I was replying to the "Creator" bit mostly, so on the grounds of that, it was invalid. I didnt mean to discount all of the possible variations of it, was just replying to the theory that was there.

 

Probably didnt make it exactly clear, so yeah. Sorry if there was some misunderstanding.

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I agree. I was also trying to point out that we still don't know the relationship between the OP and the Creator. If the Creator is the source of the OP, as seems to be the case with the DO/TP, then sealing off the Creator seems reasonable as a means of losing channeling ability. Just not sure if that is even possible.

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I agree. I was also trying to point out that we still don't know the relationship between the OP and the Creator. If the Creator is the source of the OP, as seems to be the case with the DO/TP, then sealing off the Creator seems reasonable as a means of losing channeling ability. Just not sure if that is even possible.

 

It may be that the creator actually created the OP, but it is NOT like teh TP, its not the essance of the Creator. It is infused into the pattern. It would not work, Sealing the Creator.

 

A Crown of Swords book tour 21 June 1996, Charleston - Brian Ritchie reporting

The universe is driven by saidin and saidar working against each other. They will not end up as the Light Power.

 

So the sealing creator would be ineffective.

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Fallon Blood book signing 12 October 1996, Joseph-Beth Booksellers, Cincinnati, OH - Michael Martin reporting

 

Re: the Creator's "Inability" To Act On His Creation...Having encountered a similar "theology" in Donaldson's Covenant series, I have been quite curious why the Creator can't act on His own world. It didn't seem to make sense, except as a plot device. RJ answered this question. His thesis was this: A perfect Creator should create a perfect creation. To act, miraculously or no, on this world, would be tantamount to acknowleding imperfection in Himself. So, when humanity screwed things up, they've been left on their own to "patch" things up.

Can anyone find where this came from? Googling "Fallon Blood book signing 12 October 1996" only gets me a handful of Dragonmount pages, not a source. I saw Terez' database mentioned, but it doesn't have a section for the Creator and I don't know where to look to find this.

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Fallon Blood book signing 12 October 1996, Joseph-Beth Booksellers, Cincinnati, OH - Michael Martin reporting

 

Re: the Creator's "Inability" To Act On His Creation...Having encountered a similar "theology" in Donaldson's Covenant series, I have been quite curious why the Creator can't act on His own world. It didn't seem to make sense, except as a plot device. RJ answered this question. His thesis was this: A perfect Creator should create a perfect creation. To act, miraculously or no, on this world, would be tantamount to acknowleding imperfection in Himself. So, when humanity screwed things up, they've been left on their own to "patch" things up.

Can anyone find where this came from? Googling "Fallon Blood book signing 12 October 1996" only gets me a handful of Dragonmount pages, not a source. I saw Terez' database mentioned, but it doesn't have a section for the Creator and I don't know where to look to find this.

 

It is indeed from Terez' database under Workings of the Wheel (ta'veren, souls etc.).

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It is indeed from Terez' database under Workings of the Wheel (ta'veren, souls etc.).

Thanks. I wonder if it slipped through the cracks and was only readded recently. I'd never heard it before, and always thought the reason for the Creator's non-interference was a mystery, especially since RJ RAFO'd it in the Budapest interview. It being explained back in 1996 is surprising.

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2. The OP is not the Creator's power. The OP is "the force that drives the Wheel of Time." Think of it as fuel for a car. It is a natural energy source, similar to oxygen. (in so far as it is something that is jsut a part of nature.)

 

I disagree with this, nobody can openly say "The OP is not the Creators Power." People created by the Creators creation are born able to channel sometimes. The One Power has always been natural to the Pattern, and the Wheel, which the Creator created. How can the One Power not be the Creators Power?

 

In my mind, saying "the True Source is the driving force the Wheel of Time" is basically a beefed up version of saying "A channeler is the driving force of a shield placed on another channeler."

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My reason for thinking the One Power is the Creator's own power is that it seems evenly matched against the Dark One's True Power, and we were told this is a Manichean universe where the Dark One is a full-fledged evil counterpart, not just some fallen intermediary being like Satan. So if the One Power can match the Dark One, it has to be the Creator's Power.

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I think you and Drekka misunderstand what I am saying.

 

I am not saying that the Creator did not CREATE the OP. What I am saying is, the OP is not the Creators version of the TP. It isnt the essance of Light.

 

As I pointed out in an earlier post, we see the quote from RJ

 

A Crown of Swords book tour 21 June 1996, Charleston - Brian Ritchie reporting

The universe is driven by saidin and saidar working against each other. They will not end up as the Light Power.

 

The OP isnt the opposite of the TP. It isnt Light Power v Dark Power. It is abundantly clear from the quote.

 

As to if the creator actually initiated and created the OP, it is probable, bbut it isnt the same as the TP.

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Um... I'm pretty sure the TP (Yes, the True Power--Dark One's power) is a sort of perversion of the OP. What I mean is, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that RJ basically said the TP is the DO's attempt to mess with and re-purpose both saidar and saidin into something that he then uses that can be sensed by both male and female.

 

So, the TP comes from the OP, I think. I don't think there is some other "Light Power" and I don't think the TP is separate from the OP, but rather a messed up, tainted type "mixture" of the OP. I think both the DO and Creator us the OP, but the DO's version of it is "perverted" or "twisted" to do only evil and destroy. The Creator's power (presumably the OP) is meant for only creation. Destruction vs. creation. That's what these two "entities" are, IMO.

 

One uses the pure form of the OP for good. The other uses a twisted form of the OP (now known as the TP) for evil.

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I think you and Drekka misunderstand what I am saying.

 

I am not saying that the Creator did not CREATE the OP. What I am saying is, the OP is not the Creators version of the TP. It isnt the essance of Light.

 

No I understand what you are saying. Im just on the opposite side of the fence. To me it looks like every single aspect of the One Power and True Power relates directly to the nature of the respective big cheeses. In my oppinion its well established that C and DO are supposed to be ultimate opposites. I get more of my own "clues" to that from the One Power and True Power as much as anything else.

 

-The Dark One is all about selfishness, it makes humanity predicable and this is why it-yes, the Dark One is IT, like Shaidar, which is part of the Dark One-promotes such aggressive competition. A True Power reference for that? True Power use cannot be sensed by anyone other than the user, even by other True Power users. This encourages them to work alone in its use. If the Powers were opposites as the Creator and Dark One are, and Im trying to prove the One Power and True Power are opposites, then there must be some aspects of the One Power that encourage teamwork, right?

 

-Male channelers are stronger on average than women on average, and men have strength levels that are unabailable to female channelers. However when circles are involved, men can only contribute to a circle greater than four members if the majority are women. In greater circles that exceed thirteen, a male channeler acts as a connector between circles of thirteen; for every male you have you add another circle of thirteen female. However in this case you are likely to have a huge imbalance in the saidin-saidar ratio. To rectify this a man could be given Callandor and balance any circle that could ever be created. However, while the lack of buffer is what enables this, it is also what makes it dangerous, and the only way to remove that danger is to allow women the control, and even then you must have more women than men. Both have advantages alone, but used together they can achieve wonders, but neither side has any favoritism or unfair advantages.

 

Male channelers are the arm, and female channelers are the hand.

 

Limb of the Light! Frikkin. Jackpot. Or Absolute. Crackpot. Which would be the Dark Ones version, Blim of the Dark. And you have to say or write it like that (Absolute. Jackpot. or Frikkin. Jackpot. Same kinda thing as TALKING LIKE THIS)

 

*cough*

 

-The One Power Warder bond grants awareness of the presence of Shadowspawn, which have remnants of the True Power in their heritage. We have seen two possible True Power bonds, the one which prevents Myrdraal from killing Alviarin, and the one that is known as the Chosen mark, which makes a Chosens words act as Compulsion to Shadowspawn.

 

-Shadowspawn, which have remnants of the True Power in their heritage, have no gender unless they have humanity in them as Trollocs do. A requisite of channeling the One Power is being either male or female. True Power access can only be granted to someone with the ability in a person whatever their gender, yet still cannot be sensed by anyone other than the user. So the One Power is a gendered Power, the True Power is genderless

 

-Everything-even a blade of grass-has a thread, which makes the entire world AND its population make up the Pattern, which is made by the Wheel, the Wheel that was made by he Creator and is driven by female and male halves of the same force, the same force that the Wheel, which once again was made by the Creator, can spin out peoples souls as and when it wishes and give them qualities such as Ta'verenism and a maxed out ability to channel a we see in Rand/Lewis, and if it wishes the Wheel can even allow the maxed out Dragons soul be born without these qualities if they are not needed.

 

All this, at the hands of two forces that power something that the Creator made.

 

How did the Creator put those two forces in place if they are not his own? If they arent his and her own in the same way the True Power gets his own, where does he and she get them from? As black and white a contrast as you can get between the One and True Powers. Kind of like the Dark One and Creator. Maybe the Creator and the Dark One got busy and had twins, saidin and saidar. Or maybe the Creator him and herself is the True Source and the Dark One itself is the True Power.

 

Or maybe I should "realise there are more than two bad guys in the series." *cough*yeah right*cough*

Edited by Drekka Mort
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I think you and Drekka misunderstand what I am saying.

 

I am not saying that the Creator did not CREATE the OP. What I am saying is, the OP is not the Creators version of the TP. It isnt the essance of Light.

 

No I understand what you are saying. Im just on the opposite side of the fence. To me it looks like every single aspect of the One Power and True Power relates directly to the nature of the respective big cheeses. In my oppinion its well established that C and DO are supposed to be ultimate opposites. I get more of my own "clues" to that from the One Power and True Power as much as anything else.

 

-The Dark One is all about selfishness, it makes humanity predicable and this is why it-yes, the Dark One is IT, like Shaidar, which is part of the Dark One-promotes such aggressive competition. A True Power reference for that? True Power use cannot be sensed by anyone other than the user, even by other True Power users. This encourages them to work alone in its use. If the Powers were opposites as the Creator and Dark One are, and Im trying to prove the One Power and True Power are opposites, then there must be some aspects of the One Power that encourage teamwork, right?

 

-Male channelers are stronger on average than women on average, and men have strength levels that are unabailable to female channelers. However when circles are involved, men can only contribute to a circle greater than four members if the majority are women. In greater circles that exceed thirteen, a male channeler acts as a connector between circles of thirteen; for every male you have you add another circle of thirteen female. However in this case you are likely to have a huge imbalance in the saidin-saidar ratio. To rectify this a man could be given Callandor and balance any circle that could ever be created. However, while the lack of buffer is what enables this, it is also what makes it dangerous, and the only way to remove that danger is to allow women the control, and even then you must have more women than men. Both have advantages alone, but used together they can achieve wonders, but neither side has any favoritism or unfair advantages.

 

Male channelers are the arm, and female channelers are the hand.

 

Limb of the Light! Frikkin. Jackpot. Or Absolute. Crackpot. Which would be the Dark Ones version, Blim of the Dark. And you have to say write it like that (Absolute. Jackpot. or Frikkin. Jackpot. Same kinda thing as TALKING LIKE THIS)

 

*cough*

 

-The One Power Warder bond grants awareness of the presence of Shadowspawn, which have remnants of the True Power in their heritage. We have seen two possible True Power bonds, the one which prevents Myrdraal from killing Alviarin, and the one that is known as the Chosen mark, which makes a Chosens words act as Compulsion to Shadowspawn.

 

-Shadowspawn, which have remnants of the True Power in their heritage, have no gender unless they have humanity in them as Trollocs do. A requisite of channeling the One Power is being either male or female. True Power access can only be granted to someone with the ability in a person whatever their gender, yet still cannot be sensed by anyone other than the user.

 

-Everything-even a blade of grass-has a thread, which makes the entire world AND its population make up the Pattern, which is made by the Wheel, the Wheel that was made by he Creator and is driven by female and male halves of the same force, the same force that the Wheel, which once again was made by the Creator, can spin out peoples souls as and when it wishes and give them qualities such as Ta'verenism and a maxed out ability to channel a we see in Rand/Lewis, and if it wishes the Wheel can even allow the maxed out Dragons soul be born without these qualities if they are not needed.

 

All this, at the hands of two forces that power something that the Creator made.

 

How did the Creator put those two forces in place if they are not his own? If they arent his and her own in the same way the True Power gets his own, where does he and she get them from? As black and white a contrast as you can get between the One and True Powers. Kind of like the Dark One and Creator. Maybe the Creator and the Dark One got busy and had twins, saidin and saidar. Or maybe the Creator him and herself is the True Source and the Dark One itself is the True Power.

 

Or maybe I should "realise there are more than two bad guys in the series." *cough*yeah right*cough*

 

You can write 1000 pages and it would still be wrong.

 

The OP is neutral. The creator created it, probably, but it has no inherant "Light" in it. Its just like fuel in a car. The force that drives the Wheel of Time.

 

The TP is the DO's essance. Pure evil. It is not the same, although it is similar.

 

I can admit that the creator made it, and it comes from him, but it is not the power of good.

 

A Crown of Swords book tour 21 June 1996, Charleston - Brian Ritchie reporting

The universe is driven by saidin and saidar working against each other. They will not end up as the Light Power.

 

I dont know how you can get anything different from the Quote. Its as plain as day. Neutral power.

 

There may be some "Light Power" but it is not the OP.

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You can write 1000 pages and it would still be wrong.

 

The OP is neutral. The creator created it, probably, but it has no inherant "Light" in it. Its just like fuel in a car. The force that drives the Wheel of Time.

 

The TP is the DO's essance. Pure evil. It is not the same, although it is similar.

 

I can admit that the creator made it, and it comes from him, but it is not the power of good.

 

Who said anything about the One Power being good? Yes, the True Source is neutral but it is still an opposite of the True Power. The Shadar Logoth power is an opposite of the True Power, but that is also evil. Ive always thought a theme of the series being that both good and evil are necessary. Partly that and Moridins words to Rand in TGS are what makes me think the Pattern is a shield that will die without something to imprison.

 

A Crown of Swords book tour 21 June 1996, Charleston - Brian Ritchie reporting

The universe is driven by saidin and saidar working against each other. They will not end up as the Light Power.

 

I dont know how you can get anything different from the Quote. Its as plain as day. Neutral power.

 

There may be some "Light Power" but it is not the OP.

 

I dont know how you can expect someone to take anything seriously from a vague quote with no link. Not that I am accusing you of making it up, but I could easily make a quote look like that and put some randomers name on it. Not to mention that interview quotes should provide exact wordings from horses mouths, otherwise it is too easily flawed by interpreters possibly flawed interpretation.

 

EDIT-Im just adding this because I felt I should, Im not attacking you or being venemous, sorry if Im coming across that way it is not what I am here for.

Edited by Drekka Mort
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