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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

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There are two potential gholam attacks we hear about before Mat has his first scrap with it.

1) Barthanes torn apart in his palace in Carhein (TGH) - may not have been a Gholam but it's got the signature

2) Fel torn apart by a gholam in Barthanes Palace in Carhein (LoC)

There's a very long time (many many months) between 1,2 and no mention of weird murders in-between.

Maybe that's not a gholam or it goes back into its stasis box.

There's a short time between the second attack and the gholam attack in Ebou Dar mentioned in LoC and ACoS.

We have a very clear timeline about that because of the feast days.

The gholam can't Travel - it may be able to use Ways between Carhein-Ebou Dar but otherwise it's too much of a distance (North-East to South-West).

We've never seen it use the Ways to jump to Mat's location in its hunt for Mat through CoT, KoD.

So, there's a case for two of the critters being loose.

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Now that we now Aginor used the TP. Which I'm assuming was used in the creation of all of the Dark Ones little minions(including the Gholam). Itmakes sense to me that the Gholam can probably be hurt by the TP.

 

With that said, I still think that Mat is going to off the Gholam. I think it would be cool to see how it reacts to the TP.

I agree, it would be SO cool if Mat channeled the TP to kill the Gholam :wink:

 

Seriously, do you guys think that Mat will have time to develop his plan? Considering how chapter 8 ended?

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Herid Fel was killed by a gholam. There's absolutely no doubt about this.

Gholam are shadowspawn, correct? if so perhaps Rand's memories of shadowspawn dying when they go through gateways might be a way to kill them. Hurling them bodily through a gateway :biggrin: .

 

Of course it's absolutely impossible for this to be Mat's plan. Maybe explosives of some kind, like Aludra's mini-dragon grenade things. Or....

Mat blows the Horn of Valere. Hawkwing says 'whatcha want now?' Mat says 'kill that guy.' Hawkwing says 'ok. Oh, hey there Birgitte.'

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Not sure if this is the best place for this, but I was wondering...CAN a Gholam pass through a gateway? It qualifies as shadowspawn, right? I assume it can't, but since it's so badass about the One Power...

Also, I feel Mat's gonna kill the Gholam before heading to the ToG, don't have all the time in the world to get this story wrapped up otherwise :biggrin:

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Not sure if this is the best place for this, but I was wondering...CAN a Gholam pass through a gateway? It qualifies as shadowspawn, right? I assume it can't, but since it's so badass about the One Power...

Also, I feel Mat's gonna kill the Gholam before heading to the ToG, don't have all the time in the world to get this story wrapped up otherwise :biggrin:

I think we have to assume that it qualifies as Shadowspawn, so it couldn't survive that. I also believe it's commonly accepted that a Gateway wouldn't collapse in such circumstances, since the weave only exist at the borders. You are of course free to make your own mind, since both RJ and Brandon were careful not to say too much on how a gholam might be killed. However, if I'm not mistaken, Brandon did promise that we'll see one way of doing it by the end of ToM, so that's something to look forward to :smile:

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Not sure if this is the best place for this, but I was wondering...CAN a Gholam pass through a gateway? It qualifies as shadowspawn, right? I assume it can't, but since it's so badass about the One Power...

Also, I feel Mat's gonna kill the Gholam before heading to the ToG, don't have all the time in the world to get this story wrapped up otherwise :biggrin:

I think we have to assume that it qualifies as Shadowspawn, so it couldn't survive that. I also believe it's commonly accepted that a Gateway wouldn't collapse in such circumstances, since the weave only exist at the borders. You are of course free to make your own mind, since both RJ and Brandon were careful not to say too much on how a gholam might be killed. However, if I'm not mistaken, Brandon did promise that we'll see one way of doing it by the end of ToM, so that's something to look forward to :smile:

 

The theory of Elayne making a copy of the foxhead medallion seems to fit pretty well here. It would be convenient and Mat has already offered to loan it to Elayne once but she turned him down in Ebou Dar. Mat still might feel he needs to watch out for Elayne directly since he made that promise to Rand back in LoC. I'm betting he loans the medallion to Elayne and she makes a passable copy to cause the gholam so real harm ultimately leading to its death in some way.

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Not sure if this is the best place for this, but I was wondering...CAN a Gholam pass through a gateway? It qualifies as shadowspawn, right? I assume it can't, but since it's so badass about the One Power...

Also, I feel Mat's gonna kill the Gholam before heading to the ToG, don't have all the time in the world to get this story wrapped up otherwise :biggrin:

I think we have to assume that it qualifies as Shadowspawn, so it couldn't survive that. I also believe it's commonly accepted that a Gateway wouldn't collapse in such circumstances, since the weave only exist at the borders. You are of course free to make your own mind, since both RJ and Brandon were careful not to say too much on how a gholam might be killed. However, if I'm not mistaken, Brandon did promise that we'll see one way of doing it by the end of ToM, so that's something to look forward to :smile:

 

The theory of Elayne making a copy of the foxhead medallion seems to fit pretty well here. It would be convenient and Mat has already offered to loan it to Elayne once but she turned him down in Ebou Dar. Mat still might feel he needs to watch out for Elayne directly since he made that promise to Rand back in LoC. I'm betting he loans the medallion to Elayne and she makes a passable copy to cause the gholam so real harm ultimately leading to its death in some way.

 

 

Or it might have something to do with that dull knife or another of the ter'angreal they have at the palace being of some use. Would Balefire destroy it?

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I believe Mat has become "wise" to his attributes. He blindly chose the tavern that led to the guy pursuing "the girls", when he lost Tuon in town on the shopping spree, he quickly turned in a circle and headed to the closest shop he was facing. He stepped into the tent and there was a strong smell of blood...I believe whatever his plan is it only involves him and the gholam and he will say, "it is time to toss th dice." and put it in motion. Certainly something involving using the medallion, but I honestly believe he will trust to his luck...

By repeatedly engaging the creature with the medallion as a weapon he will find a spot that screams that really hurt it, Mat will toss the dice making it a gamble for him to win and too easy a mark for the gholam to pass on, maybe all the dice will show six pips, but that only wins in some games.

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Mat will be the one to kill it. Elayne having the medallion will do squat; the Gholam would still eat her for breakfast. It is incredibly quick and strong and silent. Both times Mat has fought it Mat has managed to survive through speed, reflexes and alot of luck. Elayne doesn't have any of those attributes in any great amount. so just having the medallion won't do; you need to be able to match it for its speed and sheer raw power.

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I see this "Elayne can copy the medallion" stuff a lot. How exactly does she study and then copy this item if any weave of the power that touches it melts, and that's not even mentioning the fact she can barely channel due to being pregnant. I'd say there's no way it gets copied and we're more likely to see some use of fireworks/explosives used to kill the gholam.

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Mat will be the one to kill it. Elayne having the medallion will do squat; the Gholam would still eat her for breakfast. It is incredibly quick and strong and silent. Both times Mat has fought it Mat has managed to survive through speed, reflexes and alot of luck. Elayne doesn't have any of those attributes in any great amount. so just having the medallion won't do; you need to be able to match it for its speed and sheer raw power.

 

You are assuming that the Gholam will die fighting on its terms. So far the good guys have not been able to fight it any other way. So far they haven't been able to predict where it will strike or to lure it into a trap. I don't think the good guys can win, though, unless they set up a trap. Speed, reflexes and luck are only good as a last resort. To win at an ambush you need cunning, ability to attack at a distance, a quick way out if it goes bad, and a little luck. Mat is still favorite in these attributes as well, but there are many possible ways that other people could kill the gholam in an ambush.

 

There are many ways that Elayne can defeat the gholam on her own terms with the medallion or even without. (Even though, I don't think that Mat will give up the medallion.) If she uses the dull dagger ter'angreal and it works against the gholam, for instance, she can use air to jam the medallion deeply into the Gholam. Her guards or Mat, may delay the gholam enough to do the same.

 

I agree with the others above that the most likely scenario is that Mat will ambush the gholam with fireworks, killing it. But, I think it is silly to disregard all the other options. RJ delights in setting up false paths. Remember how much he set up the BA hunters for instance.

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Deathgates = end of gholam.

Please keep your remarks on means by which one might kill a gholam on topic. We're discussing Mat's plans - not the nature of gholam - and while some overlap is unavoidable, let's restrict ourselves to things we believe Mat might try.

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I see this "Elayne can copy the medallion" stuff a lot. How exactly does she study and then copy this item if any weave of the power that touches it melts, and that's not even mentioning the fact she can barely channel due to being pregnant. I'd say there's no way it gets copied and we're more likely to see some use of fireworks/explosives used to kill the gholam.

 

The medallion only interrupts the weaves when someone directs channeling to the person whose skin it is touching. RJ never mentions that if you directed weaves at the medallion itself that it would interrupt those as well. Such as air to pick it up. Or maybe it only disrupts weaves if it is touching the skin of someone. in that case, it could be studied without melting the weaves. as far as Elayne not being able to channel because of the pregnancy, she would have to do it after their birth of course.

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As far as Mat not giving it to Elayne to duplicate, its possible she has the babies, then goes to see Mat. Mat tells her that he needs a gate to the Tower of the 'Finns. Elayne says she will do it if she can study the medallion. Mat says she can study the medallion if she swears to give it right back as soon as he is back from the tower and that she will need to open a gate to the exact same spot every day at the dusk or dawn until he returns. and lets face it, he will return because Rand will fail without his help.

 

That is just one way it could happen.

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AH the dull knife. that is an excellent idea.

Mat could finally get to talk to Elayne. He warns Elayne that the gholum is around and to be careful; that its master wants her dead almost as much as its master wants Mat dead. Elayne remembers what Aviendha told her concerning the knife and asks Mat if he has plans on how to get rid of it. he says yes. She tells him that she owes him for saving her life and offers the use of the knife until the gholum is dead; at which point he is required to give the knife back to her

 

Or something like that :)

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Some ideas:

 

Mat has access to explosives and other incendiaries. These might be a good non-channeling way of hurting it.

 

-- dwn

This pretty much how I have always believed Mat would offed the gholam with use of Aludras' explosives.

Edited by bigWalt
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Correct me if I am wrong (and I am sure someone will....lol),

But I seem to recall Trollocs being gated in at some point, I do not recall if it was

Camelyn, or the Stone, or where, but I think I remember Trollocs coming through gateways and

attacking. This goes against the idea that shadowspawn going through gateways destroys them.

 

It is possible that this was an error that was corrected, or that I am just mis-remembering things.

Either way...

 

I am still looking forward to this book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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@ Crazyone:

I don't think trollocs actually going thru gateways was ever shown on page. There were a few times, like Caemlyn with Rhavin in FoH, and in the Waste in tSR, when there were trollocs that showed up very unexpectedly, and I think most of us probably just assumed they were gateway'd in by one of the Forsaken, before it was written that they couldn't pass thru gateways. I suppose there are Waygates in the Spine of the World that they could have used to get close to the Waste, but I've often wondered about how they got trollocs into the palace in Caemlyn. There is a Waygate in Caemlyn of course, but they would have to march thru the streets to get to the palace without being noticed. and the thousands upon thousands that attacked Rand in Tear in KoD seems like a lot of trollocs to have gone thru the Ways. Maybe shadowspawn can pass thru a True Power gateway like Ishy/Moridin makes...?

 

As to the gholam, perhaps cutting off it's head. But would it just melt back together or something? I like the firework/explosion idea too. I'm hoping there is someway for Mat to kill it without some convoluted plan with the Power.

Edited by al'Corey
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Deathgates = end of gholam.

Please keep your remarks on means by which one might kill a gholam on topic. We're discussing Mat's plans - not the nature of gholam - and while some overlap is unavoidable, let's restrict ourselves to things we believe Mat might try.

Post police?

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Correct me if I am wrong (and I am sure someone will....lol),

But I seem to recall Trollocs being gated in at some point, I do not recall if it was

Camelyn, or the Stone, or where, but I think I remember Trollocs coming through gateways and

attacking. This goes against the idea that shadowspawn going through gateways destroys them.

 

It is possible that this was an error that was corrected, or that I am just mis-remembering things.

Either way...

 

I am still looking forward to this book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do not the Trollocs procreate? That might make a difference as for going through gateways. They are life(corrupted as it is) which can perpetuate itself, I don't know if the Nym can do the same, that might be the difference which allow trollocs to go through a gateway with out dieing.

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Correct me if I am wrong (and I am sure someone will....lol),

But I seem to recall Trollocs being gated in at some point, I do not recall if it was

Camelyn, or the Stone, or where, but I think I remember Trollocs coming through gateways and

attacking. This goes against the idea that shadowspawn going through gateways destroys them.

 

It is possible that this was an error that was corrected, or that I am just mis-remembering things.

Either way...

 

I am still looking forward to this book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do not the Trollocs procreate? That might make a difference as for going through gateways. They are life(corrupted as it is) which can perpetuate itself, I don't know if the Nym can do the same, that might be the difference which allow trollocs to go through a gateway with out dieing.

 

Doesnt matter, at the base, they are still artificially created things, even though they later breed.

 

The event I think you are talking about is tSR in the stone.

 

Alot of people have questioned it, but if you recall, their presence was explained. And RJ said that "leaping out of thin air" was not from a gateway, but them just popping up suddenly.

 

Trollocs cannot go through gateways. Neither can all shadowspawn or Nym.

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The trollocs actually came in hidden on barges to the wharf at the Stone.

Caemlyn has a Gate hidden quite close to the Palace - the upper city tends to have fewer people floating around.

Also Rahvin obviously cleared the streets since he was expecting an attack.

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