Bashere

[sports25]

I have heard people saying they think Bashere is going to die before the last battle ... where are these theories coming from?

[Jeppit Groccin]

It's all speculation at this point. Everyone is just guessing at who they think will live or die at Tarmon Gai'don. A lot of people seem to believe that Davram Bashere will be one of the ones to go.

 

Let's face it, a lot of the characters we know and love are going to be snuffed out in the next book. I wouldn't be too surprised if all 3 ta'veren go down, though it would be interesting to see how RJ does it.

[Guest Majsju]

It's a theory based on one of Min's viewings:

 

COT: 24, A Strengthening Storm,]

"And there's something... dark... in the images I saw around Lord Davram. If he turns against you, or dies..."

[Jarred Darque]

Here is another thought as well.

 

Rand is...The Dragon Reborn

Mat is no longer just a general and the DR's friend..he is The Prince of Ravens, husband to the Emporess.

 

Perrin is right now...just Perrin.

 

Bashere is the current heir to the throne of Saldae (sp?) if something happens to Tenobia. After Bashere, is Faile. That would make Perrin...well more than just plain Perrin, and would give him a position of authority in the last battle..which right now, he has none.

[TheDiceAgain...]

There's also Min's viewing of a "wolf, broken crown, trees flowering all around him" from TEoTW. I believe that the crown of Saldaea is called the Broken Crown (CoT, Prologue) so it would make sense that Tenobia and Bashere may die to clear the way for Faile and Perrin to rule.

 

The problem is that Min seems to think that Bashere dying would be a bad thing for Rand and the forces of the Light in general. So we have something of a connundrum, keep a loyal (so far) and valuable military commander for Rand, or allow Perrin to ride his ta'veren-ness to its logical conclusion...

[Luckers]

On the other hand, things DO have to go wrong for the Light.

 

I believe there is something significant in the fact that the Borderlanders have been in the south for four books now, but Rand still hasn't approached them. My guess is that the Aes Sedai with them are Black Ajah, and that when Rand does they will attack him (hurting him for the second time) and in the course of that both Bashere and Tenobia will die.

[Dionysus]

Bashere was there when he almost went nuts against the Seanchan and when he almost went nuts fighting the trollocs in KoD. He's Semirhage bait.

[Luckers]

Bashere wasn't actually there for that. He arrived after the battle was done.

[seoman]

I don´t know the importance of davram now, as general well rand could get the aid of better ones (mat, agelmar, bryne, even lan or rhuarc, and maybe ituralde), as representation of saldaea, there is perrin-faile and tenobia, and a link to the borderlanders Moraine will do a relevant role, and of course the king of malkier.

I like bashere, and i hope he will stand for rand in the las battle, but the light forces will do with or without him

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yeah, I'm with Luckers here. It seems likely that something bad will happen with the Borderlanders, and Bashere would likely be right in the middle of whatever went down.

[Luckers]

Well, Rand's going to be hard pressed to find a BETTER general. Bashere is one of the Great Captains... Mat may be better... may.

 

But still, your point is well taken, he is disposable. Perhaps even needs to be disposed of for other character arcs to continue.

[TheDiceAgain...]

But still, your point is well taken, he is disposable. Perhaps even needs to be disposed of for other character arcs to continue.

 

Kinda like Asmodean, hmmm?? (just kidding :lol: )

[demonspawn]

Has it been revealed who was blackmailing Bashere when his wife was attacked and what they wanted him to do?

 

I can't quite remember all the details of this incident.

[Luckers]

Not blackmailing. That was Logain, who wanted Bashere to come with him to find Rand. He agreed to after the attack on his wife, likely to warn Rand that someone was looking for the seals.

[demonspawn]

Thanks for clearing that up. I've only read the Knife of Dreams once and when the incident occured I automatically linked the two together. But I was pretty certain he had recieved a threat and that was the spur to see Rand when Logain arrived after the attack. I am now on my way to scour the book!

[OzzieAlThor]

On the other hand' date=' things DO have to go wrong for the Light.

 

I believe there is something significant in the fact that the Borderlanders have been in the south for four books now, but Rand still hasn't approached them. My guess is that the Aes Sedai with them are Black Ajah, and that when Rand does they will attack him (hurting him for the second time) and in the course of that both Bashere and Tenobia will die.[/quote']

 

Possible. Quite possible. I am not coninved at all that the aes sedai with the borderlanders are Black Ajah but like you said. It's a guess.

 

I could buy Bashere and the Mrs dying somewhere in TG and then Perrin and Faile take over.

 

Although honestly, they don't HAVE to die for Perrin to have an impact. His rallying of the wolves could just as easily be his part as well.

[Luckers]

The problem is the vision of the Broken Crown around Perrin. This indicates that Perrin will be the ruler of, or consort of the ruler of Saldaea. At the moment his connection to the Broken Crown is a bit too tenuos for Min to have had a vision about... at least to my mind.

 

But as you say, it may come much later. My thought was merely that with so little space left in the books RJ is going have to start multi-tasking.

[demonspawn]

Hopefully this won't be one of the "loose threads that won't be tied up" that RJ was talking about because I would like to see how it all plays out.

I think that either bashere will be killed or that it will come out that he is , or has been used by, a darkfriend or maybe by a forsaken. The forsaken bit is probably taking it a bit too far though.

[Luckers]

Bashendred? :lol:

[demonspawn]

Not that he IS a forsaken being used by one. Can you rule out Demandred?

[Taishar Manetheren]

I dont think Bashere is a darkfriend or being used in any way.

First of all he and his familly are too wierd to be evil and seconed, he helped Rand in a lot of ways including the time he went nuts and used callandor all over the place killing his own people without meaning to.

And we did have his pov when his wife got knifed.

[OzzieAlThor]

Min's viewing of the Broken Crown might just have been a way to identify that Faile would be "the one" for Faile and nothing deeper as well.

 

No matter what, you are indeed correct on that RJ will have to multi-task if he wants this done in one book (I'm not convinced he won't get long-winded and still stretch it out over 2 books.

[Luckers]

It just seems too tenuos that she would see the Broken Crown if all it meant was that he would marry the cousin of the Queen. The falcon is a much stronger symbol for Faile.

 

And I was joking about Bashendred.

[RobertAlexWillis]

First of all he and his familly are too wierd to be evil

 

That was good. :lol:

[OzzieAlThor]

It just seems too tenuos that she would see the Broken Crown if all it meant was that he would marry the cousin of the Queen. The falcon is a much stronger symbol for Faile.

 

I can understand that.

 

Seeing the crown doesn't mean he has to take the throne before TG. It means he probably will do it afterward. The Bashere's probably won't die.

 

Funny, Mat and Perrin both married royalty and Rand is the most powerful man in the free world. Gotta love fate.