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Icedragon

Two Rivers Darkfriends

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That's like asking if we think there are any Gophers disguising themselves as Sharks in the Atlantic. I'd have to go with No.

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I don't think there are any. It's not the sort of place that would produce them, and even if the odd person had such inclinations, they'd be more likely to leave the Two Rivers to seek out other like them.

 

Oh no! Tam must be a darkfriend!!!

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To go a bit further with what Luckers said, we know there were no darkfriends in the Two Rivers because the Dark One had to use a peddler in The Eye of the World. Fain didn't have any contacts inside the Two Rivers and originally had to act as a spotter when the hunt was still on for the Dragon Reborn.

 

It's likely that there are some darkfriends there now among the refugees but none of the Two Rivers natives are.

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It's likely that there are some darkfriends there now among the refugees but none of the Two Rivers natives are.

Ahh, good point. So there are sharks disguised as gophers disguised as sharks in the Atlantic. Now it makes sense.

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But didn't Fain go to Shayul Ghul to get the info 'removed' (for lack of a better word) from his brain, and being a peddlar was a good cover to be coming and going.

 

BTW I also doubt there are any. Though it would be interesting to know if any have been tempted since they have lets say joined the New Era.

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Ishy would have used any DF's in TR from the get go. Plus, TR is more like a family community than a town. Everyone knows everyones beeswax. At least until the refugees anyway

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Why would he, when at first he didn't even know that the DR was living in the TR? When by the time he did know, he already had a paddler-DF whose rout travels through the TR? When whomever he did choose will need to travel back and forth between the TR and Shayol Ghul? And when Fain had already started the process of 'distilling his mind' or whatnot?

 

Also, I think there's something to be said for covering all your bases. Why wouldn't Ishamael leave 'sleepers' anywhere he could manage, just in case?

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It would make sense if their were darkfriends in the Two Rivers, although Ba Alzamon used Fain to look for the dragon reborn that was because he travelled a lot. They were not sure precisely where the dragon was and so it would make sense not to leave it up to a Two Rivers darkfriend when the dragon could be in Baerlon or wherever else Fain did his peddling that they Ishy thought the dragon could be. We do know that Kari was a darkfriend (although she was not born in the Two Rivers and I think that we could presume that she was a Friend of the Dark before the moved to the Two Rivers). But still I do not believe that there are any hints as to whether or not there are any more darkfriends in the Two Rivers yet. If there is I never noticed it.

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We do know that Kari was a darkfriend

Excuse me, but I know no such thing. That was Ishamael in that scene, not the DO, and I don't think there's any way that Ishamael could control the soul of a dead person. Much less so make it appear in the real world. I think it was an illusion, another lie designed to make Rand cooperate with him.

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We do know that Kari was a darkfriend

Excuse me, but I know no such thing. That was Ishamael in that scene, not the DO, and I don't think there's any way that Ishamael could control the soul of a dead person. Much less so make it appear in the real world. I think it was an illusion, another lie designed to make Rand cooperate with him.

 

That was my interpretation, Kari is most definitely not a darkfriend.

 

Also because of its geographic isolation, close knit community and the fact that most wold events pass it by it would not be a fertile ground for DFs. Could be changing with the refugees as people have noted.

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We do know that Kari was a darkfriend

Excuse me, but I know no such thing. That was Ishamael in that scene, not the DO, and I don't think there's any way that Ishamael could control the soul of a dead person. Much less so make it appear in the real world. I think it was an illusion, another lie designed to make Rand cooperate with him.

I have to agree with that. Rand doesn't retain much of a memory of Kari and was under a great deal of stress at the time, so he could have easily fallen for a reasonable facsimile of an illusion.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Coplins and Congars turned out to be a secret Darkfriend cell. This would explain why the families keep to themselves so much over generations, and the families have gained a reputation for being untrustworthy. The hallmark of a Darkfriend is ultimately selfishness.

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They could've become ones Post-Perrin, once they heard events of the world.  Sort of become one on a dare and then find out afterward that whatever you think, Shai'tan says you are one.

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You guys don't think there are ANY Darkfriends in the TR? Really? That seems rather unlikely, to me.

 

Darkfriends don't just pop up, randomly. They exist in secret communities, which view themselves as oppressed minorities and which attempt to renew themselves by recruiting new members.  The Two Rivers is (or at least was) so isolated that there was no opportunity for such a community to get a foothold--anyone from outside would be viewed with too much suspicion (especially by the Coplin/Congar types) to convince anyone to join.  I suppose it's possible that something has been passed down since the days of Manetheren, but I doubt it--any Darkfriend circles would have consisted of ambitious people who would want to move elsewhere.  Given that nothing was happening in the Two Rivers that the Shadow cared about until recently, they would probably have received permission and maybe even encouragement from the higher-ups in the Shadow's hierarchy to uproot and move elsewhere.

 

However, as others have said, I would not be at all surprised if a few Two Rivers folk have been "converted" to the Shadow since the influx of refugees.

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Charlz, your insight into the ways of the Dark makes me uncomfortable :)

 

Seriously, where do you get all of this from? I thought all that was required is for one to say 'I am yours, Great Lord of the Dark' and then someone would contact you if you're needed (a Fade, perhaps? They can travel undetected).

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Week 4 Question: How exactly does one become a Darkfriend? How does the recruiting structure for the Black Ajah work? Being Mistress of Novices, was Merean particularly active in recruiting?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: By and large, each cell of Darkfriends recruits people it thinks are likely candidates, though they need to do so very carefully, studying them, sounding them out slowly. Darkfriends are always on the lookout for new members, since they feel very much like an oppressed minority and want to increase their numbers. Once a move to recruit is made, though, either it succeeds or the failed candidate dies.

 

For someone seeking actively to become a Darkfriend, generally one begins by trying to attract the attention of those who already are Darkfriends. One fairly safe way is to let comments drop that indicate that you don't think the Light is all it's cracked up to be, that praying to the Creator seems useless etc. If this comes to the wrong ears, you might be in varying degrees of trouble depending on what country you are in and who it is that overhears, but you are unlikely to get worse than a flogging from the authorities and possibly only a stern warning to watch your talk from somebody in a tavern, perhaps accompanied by a clout on the ear. Although someone might decide to slip a knife into you in some rougher areas of some towns. It's only relatively safe. By the by, claiming not to believe in the Creator is a good way to avoid recruitment by the Darkfriends. After all, if there is no Creator, how can the Dark One be imprisoned, and if he isn't, then why hasn't he taken over and rewarded the faithful? One of the fastest ways to attract attention is to show yourself willing to kill to advance yourself or simply for gain. That doesn't mean that every strongarm who's willing to slit a throat to steal a purse is a Darkfriend. Some of those might well be horrified by the suggestion. This method has its drawbacks, of course, since if you attract the attention of the authorities first, you are very likely to end up with a noose around your neck or a trip to the headsman's block.

 

In the White Tower, Black sisters watch novices and Accepted closely for any indication that they might be leaning toward the Shadow or susceptible to the promises of the Shadow. They also watch other sisters, since people do change. Not every Black sister was recruited on the day she gained the shawl nor soon after. Merean had a fine position for watching novices and Accepted, but many sisters teach. Some do little else, but others take turns at it for various periods, so Merean was not necessarily the primary recruiter during her time as Mistress of Novices, not even among those in her charge.

 

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I think that theres no darkfriends pre refugee haven. Any darkfriends that come into TR will be laying lower than usual sicne they are in a new area with no contacts

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There were definitely no dark friends amond the native TRs. Certain people may be rotten apples, but that doesn't equate to darkfriend by any strech of any imagination. There is both no motivation for any, and no legitimate possible way for one to be there (at least for the early books). Even searching for the DR there is pointless, both seeing as the DF there would have to LIVE there (not really "searching" eh?), and because... it's the darned TR...  a DF couldn't even get ANY useful info there about anything.

 

I don't think any TR people would be DFs even in the later books. Although you can be sure that DF are trying if not succeeding to get in now.

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I think in the beginning that the Two Rivers were far too isolated for Darkfriend activity.  However, after the breaking of the world by Rand and the refugees who began pouring in.. no reason why there cannot be.

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I just had to say that Taren Ferry is part of the Two Rivers and the only place I can see DF coming from pre refugees. The DO still would need Fain this way because of the distrust of the Emonds Fielders. The way it was talked about in the early books now says to me foreshadowing RJ style. It would not surprise me either if one or more of the Coplin/Congar clan are. RJ always said DF come from all countries and walks of life. With the series coming to an end I think we might get a surprise revelation about who is and who is not a DF in the TR.   

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We do know that Kari was a darkfriend

Excuse me, but I know no such thing. That was Ishamael in that scene, not the DO, and I don't think there's any way that Ishamael could control the soul of a dead person. Much less so make it appear in the real world. I think it was an illusion, another lie designed to make Rand cooperate with him.

I have to agree with that. Rand doesn't retain much of a memory of Kari and was under a great deal of stress at the time, so he could have easily fallen for a reasonable facsimile of an illusion.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Coplins and Congars turned out to be a secret Darkfriend cell. This would explain why the families keep to themselves so much over generations, and the families have gained a reputation for being untrustworthy. The hallmark of a Darkfriend is ultimately selfishness.

 

Perhaps I am remembering this wrong but did not Kari thank Rand for saving her? If she was just an illusion then why would Ishamael have his illusion thank Rand for doing something contrary to what Ishamael wants? I do not see any reason why Ishamael would want Rand to think that he had freed Kari. Do you think that Rand unconsciously seized control of the illusion and manipulated an illusion into acting like it was happy that he was saving her? 

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Kari's soul said that the DO charmed her wayward soul or something or other and that he had great power now.  I dont think she was a dark friend living but who knows.

 

How the hell did Ishy do all that supernatural crap in the first 3 books is what I want to know. 

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How the hell did Ishy do all that supernatural crap in the first 3 books is what I want to know.

 

He probably has access to a sort of "special place" outside of the Pattern, and even outside Tel'aran'rhiod.  Its the same place where he and Rand have their friendly-enemies conference in TGS ch 15.

 

*super speculation alert*

 

I think it may be a "place" within the Bore itself, somehow tied directly to the Dark One's consciousness.  But that is way-out there speculation.

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