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The Fisher King

LoL!...Why do the ''Bad'' Books seem Alot 'Better' now, years later on rereads?

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I have been with this series since Day One. In 1991 I had the honor of shaking Mr Rigney's hands at a comic book shop and recieving his signature inside my first edition hardcover of TEOTW.

 

I went through the series in order, suffering the same long wait as so many of you between books.

 

I was one of those who found TPOD/COT disapointing and slow. I also had a slight, slight inkling that maybe ACOS was not up to par with Books 1 - 6 and that while WH was fun (the Mat/Tylin Stuff) and had an AWESOME Ending (The Cleansing), that it had far too much filler.

 

But...recently, reading back through both TPOD and also COT, here years later now, I can't believe how GOOD these books are.

 

How did they magically get better just sitting on bookshelves all these years, LOL??? ;)

 

I guess I can only say that maybe now that I have 12 books all together, that perhaps impatience fueled part of my negative first impressions? Perhaps I was young and arrogant? Seriously, who was *I* to decide the quality of Mr Jordan's work or what qualified as ''Filler'' ?

 

Now, lets be clear. There WERE problems with those books. I stand by that. Especially compared to certain elements of the other books in the series.

 

But, here, lately, reading through books 8 and 10, they in themselves, as they stand individually, are verrrry good books.

 

Anybody else suffer from this mysterious syndrome?

 

Fish

 

 

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No, because they were good to begin with but you didn't like the slower pace of them.

 

*shrugs*

 

We've gone over this in a few threads already. All of the books are beyond what I'd consider good. If anything they are the epitome of fantasy series ever.

 

Which is quite an honor to bestow that upon him and I think RJ earned it.

 

I will say this, on the rereads you will pick up stuff you didn't the first time through because you know what happens in the story and you can focus more on the details. There are thing foreshadowed in books 1-3 that happen in books 8 - 10.

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@ Anoxanmore: I will say this, on the rereads you will pick up stuff you didn't the first time through because you know what happens in the story and you can focus more on the details. There are thing foreshadowed in books 1-3 that happen in books 8 - 10.

 

I might agree that this is probably the case. Reading the later books again when you know what you are looking for - and what those things MEAN - make them alot more fun.

 

I also agree they were ALWAYS really GOOD Books - Impatience at the time probably skewed my (and probably others') opinion at the time.

 

However, and I love this series as much as anyone, they not PERFECT. Lets not go crazy here, lol ;)

 

 

Fish

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@ Anoxanmore: I can't find any flaws with this series other than maybe length but that isn't a flaw to me.

 

...Wow! LoL, I certainly see a ''flaw'' or two every now and then over the course of about 11, 000 pages, lol but its still the definitely the most wonderful set of books I have ever read and enjoyed so very thoroughly.

 

 

Fish

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  I'm really new to the series, I read from TGH through TGS from August -January, and then read EoTW, which I accidently missed, and I didn't mind any of the mid books EXCEPT PoD was a little slow.  The main thing I could see is that A. because of how much the pace slows down, basicly, some of the books take place over just like 2 weeks worth of time in Randland, they don't feel as satisfiying, especially like PoD, CoT, ect. especially considering the wait between them and there size.  The fact that plotlines like Faile's rescue, Elayne's takover of Andor, Mat's escape from Seanchan all took 3 books probalby was part of it.  but when you're ready through latter, it's okay, because then the latter books almost feel like one massive book.

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Truthfully, I was hooked once I got to the middle of the first book. After that, there was no going back. After that, I wanted more and more. Saidin has me hooked baby :-) lol jk, but yeah if "The Wheel of Time" was Saidin, then I would be kicked out of the Black Tower for drinking too much of it!

 

I have only found one other fiction series that even competes with "TWOT". The series of "Dune". Also a great series, and a very interesting concept that goes beyond Good and Evil. However, Robert Jordan did justice to the Good VS Evil concept and I do not think he just wrote his book like a cookie-cutter cuts cookie dough. It was geniune inspiration. I almost feel at times as if Robert Jordan saw his entire books within his mind's eye first, as if he was viewing these things happening in a different place of the Universe, and he was simply writing what he saw down onto paper. Lol :-)

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I tend to agree that the "bad" books were percieved that way through slower time spans in the books and/or not enough happening in the story, etc.. They really are good, but perhaps alongside its peers they were lacking.

 

I think what made me take longer to finish this span of 2 or 3 books was Perrin. I used to like Perrin alot, but then he just started getting worse and worse... I always thought getting Faile back took WAY to long and Perrin was TOO one dimentional: Nothing in the entirety of anything ever matters more that Faile. I'll sit in the corner of my tent and will myself to choke to death on my tears. Seriously?! A BIT over the top for me. I could go on...

 

However, rereading the series several times now I've come to understand that I'm ok with that. I know what I dislike about certain characters during certain points in the story(Nynaeve and Egwene! *slap, choke, shake enthusiasticly* haha) and I can also appreciate what's being portrayed. Timing. Perhaps now I'll come back to liking Perrin now that he's back to business once more. I'm quite pro Egwene, the way she's stepped up, and I'm not entirely opposed to Nyn either.

 

I try to cultivate the good from the bad in general and I've definatly improved that reading through WoT.

 

Before I said I could go on - and I will. I'm totally open to the idea that Faile, having being rescued by Perrin after all thats happened - gets hit by a truck. Ha!

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I have been a fan of WoT for 3 years now (not long ;) ) and the books have always seemed great, even the Perrin parts from WH onwards (which were slightly more boring - lol).  ;D

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There is a reason RJ made Perrin like that. He was using Faile to hold on to his human side so the Wolf part didn't take over.

 

When he lost her, he was like an alpha male without his alpha female to ground him.

 

If you look at it in that light, it makes a lot of sense, which is why now that he has her back he needs either more direction or to learn how to conquer the wolf like Elayas did.

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Interesting topic.  I definitely have not cared for TPOD or COT upon initial readings of those books.  I'm in the middle of re-reading the series (currently on TSR), so I'm curious to see what my opinion will be reading these books back to back.  I think I'll have a more favorable opinion of TPOD.  I just think COT is flawed because it dragged out the plotlines, specifically Perrin and Elayne's plots.

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i think they are all great. they have something for everybody. people who enjoy politics and taking baths, there is elayne. people who enjoy humor and awesomeness there is mat. people who like action sex and insanity theres rand. poeple who like sensitive guys, wolves, and redemption, there's perrin. it is a world with so many twists and turns and factors and unpredictability that has captured the imagination of millions world wide. i think mr jordan was very good. he made a story with so many different elements that everybody had parts they hated and loved. i hate elayne but like everybody else. im sure everyone else has similar opinions. i understand that i am still young and my opinons are flawed in some ways by youth, but the botttem line is mr jordan did one hell of a job

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the only stuff I really like to skip over is

* all of Perrin & Faile crap

* Wolfdreams, cause Perrin is such a pussy

 

most of the other stories are very fun to read dozens of times, especially the many "excursions" of  Nynaeve & friends, and the Siuan/Salidar parts.

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Well, when my initial shock of flicking through the book and realising that there was no Mat eventually faded and I read tPoD, I loved it. I think it's my second favourite after tSR. And they're both my favourites because of Perin, which is slightly surprising as he's not my favourite character by far, but his storylines in those two books I think are very good and interesting to read.

 

The only one I had problems reading was CoT because it was a slower pace, and I was only 13 when I read it, so got impatient quite quickly. When I did my second read of the series, I actually skipped the book altogether, but on the third read of the series, I read it and enjoyed it quite a lot which shocked me a little :) and now I can read it quite comfortably and enjoy it along with all the others - even the Faile/Perin plot which I like now...

 

So, I guess I had the same thing with CoT, but not with tPoD. I do have some issues reading tGH for some reason which still boggles me, because I never used to...I find that very odd.  :-\

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HI

I would say it's like my perception of "The Great Gatsby". When I had to read it in 9th grade the book sucked and was boring as hell. I hated it. Then I had to read it again 30 years later for college...and I was amazed. What seemed so dull and boring when I was just a kid now seemed interesting and normal now that I was a lot older.

 

I think the WOT series is the same way. It's been a long time since we started out with the first book and I'm sure those of us who read book 1 when it first came out on the shelves...are a whole lot older now! Our perceptions have changed with our years!

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It's weird, I've disagreed with friends IRL about this since tPoD came out (I thought books 7-10 were great, others said they were too slow.) We decided that it wasn't the content of the books, or the pacing, but the sense of advancement-of-plot. Not the actual travel along the arc, but the over-all feeling you were left with after reading the book concerning how far you felt from the end. Basically, aCoS-CoT kept pushing back the finish-line, and taken with the increasingly long gaps between releases every book came across as a let-down in this regard. The only book in the series that left me unsatisfied is KoD, and some people seemed to really like it. If I had to guess, I'd say it's because it suddenly pulled the finish-line much closer (in a way I felt was stilted and artificial.)

 

Reading them back-to-back with the knowledge of what you're getting into, there doesn't seem to be any real disparity in quality up to KoD.

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I think sometimes when you first read a book you might not like the way things had played out, but later when you look instead at how it fits into the bigger picture your oppinion changes, and sometimes that doesnt hit home for a few rereads. For example I understand that people arent so keen on books 8-10 but I remember that period for only a few things really, things which I did enjoy from the start.

 

-Mats relationship with Aes Sedai progressing along with his leadership of the Band. I like the way he has worked with female channelers so far, even if it is only to save them or help them, not in a planned mission. The Band of the Red Hand to me has a similar feel as the Borderlanders. Although Mat makes the Band so much more than that. All this happens throughout Books 7-10 ish, loved this aspect of the series. Plus Mat has his own personal rivalry with an individual Shadowspawn, and I really really liked that. Cant wait for the gholam to show up. Ive got a feeling that Cyndane will be after Mat next book, as well as the gholam. Two problems, the medallion fixes one but provides false hope against the other, for we know Cyndane wioll figure the medallion out straight away.

 

-Nynaeve starts growing up in this period.

 

-Rand and Lan worked together after what felt like a long time. To see them together was great, and the fact that they had a sort of tagteam going on against Fain and that other blademaster (Toram Riatin?) I thought was put together very well. We also learned that Fain can create Illusions, possibly only of people he or the dagger has killed, but still. Fain stabbed Rand, and Damer Flynn Healed him, both facts I think add to the image of the different Powers in the books and I enjoyed that. This being during the place in the series that I must admit myself does seem gloomy compared to the rest.

 

-The Cleansing. It makes the entire book, Winters Heart could not fail with that scene in it. Plus in Winters Heart Taim has the dark aura around him that Rand has in TGS, which I forgot about until recently.

 

Looking back at the bigger picture I dont think those books are so bad. It just feels like that sometimes. Take TGS for example. When I first read it I had read reviews by Jason saying that "This is a more evenly paced book, there is no more trolling through chapters to get to the good bits." At first when I read it, I remember being halfway through and thinking "For Gods sake when is something going to happen?" And then Cadsuane spanked Semirhage. I was dissapointed. But then Shaidar turned up, only a few rooms away from Rand! And then Semirhage put the collar on Rand... ...and Rand thought to himself that this could not be happening. Its not happening. This isnt happening. This thing here, iot isnt happening, it cant be. I cant believe this is happening-no wait, sorry, its NOT happening, clearly it isnt. Oh wait yes it is! This IS happening! Oh wait theres this other Power, nice, things start moving again.

 

Seriously though, I just wasnt impressed with the way the Semirhage incedent played out. But thats partly because I expected more in the way of Cadsuane vs Semirhage, and better. I suppose that was because I am always forgetting that the Forsaken are rarely worth the wait, with a few exceptions of course, but anyway, after I had read TGS and put it down, and let the progress it brought sink in, I realised it actually IS ion my favorite 3. The Dragon vs Nae'blis thread explodes in this book and that has always been one of my favorite things of the books; Rand is no longer the lesser of the two I think. Rand channeled the True Power! This books was not about battles, it was a book of revelations, of showing us exactly how bad things really are. And it was a Rand book. Rands PoVs are the ones I look forward to most by far; I am not exaggerating when I say when it cuts to someone else, I find out how many pages til Rand is there again before continuing. Rands proggression in TGS was fantastic, the effects of the Semirhage incedent were indeed worthy of a Forsaken, I just had to let it sink in, just like I did-and many still do I think-with the book 8-10 period.

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