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Moiraine's purpose


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BJ seemed to reiterate a LOT through tGS about Moiraine's important..ness. We know Min's viewing about her, how Rand will surely fail without her. But why? Rand has had his epiphany, does he need someone to guide him through the rebuilding of Randland?

 

My belief is that Moiraine will become the most crucial character that influences Rand, and will (praying to the GL) put Cadsuane in her bloody place. I personally can't see Moiraine being pleased with the ways things have gone in her absence.

 

What are your thoughts?

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BJ seemed to reiterate a LOT through tGS about Moiraine's important..ness. We know Min's viewing about her, how Rand will surely fail without her. But why? Rand has had his epiphany, does he need someone to guide him through the rebuilding of Randland?

 

My belief is that Moiraine will become the most crucial character that influences Rand, and will (praying to the GL) put Cadsuane in her bloody place. I personally can't see Moiraine being pleased with the ways things have gone in her absence.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Really? And what would have gone differently if Moiraine was around do you think? The exact same thing would have happened, because its not as if Cadsuane was the only person who pushed him over the edge. It was everyone; it was the years of expectation he had been through, the constant pressure, the stress, the need to harden himself, etc etc. In fact, by the time Cadsuane came along Rand was already well underway to hardening. People are deluding themselves if they think the same thing wouldn't have happened if Moiraine was around. Heck, Rand already went nuts back in book 3. Moiraine doesn't have the worlds greatest track record either.

 

Anyway, I don't think Moiraine will be an advisor. My personal thoughts are is that she will have some sort of crucial information Rand needs for TG. Mat is heavily inspired by Odin, and Odin sacrifised an eye to gain the Wisdom of Ages. Moiraine will be that Wisdom.

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if moraine was still around (as in never having left him) then he would not have started to harden himself, he starts that because he was not hard enough to kill lanfear because she was a women and lost a close friend and advisor which he used to flay his soul until it was hard

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I think Moiraine has some valuable info from her trip through the rings in Rhuidean that will certainly help Rand. However, I also think that she will come back from the ToG stronger in the OP. The Pattern is about balance and Lanfear came back weaker, so imo, Moiraine will come back stronger. Of course, this is just a theory and I highly doubt I'm the first person to consider it. I'm sure it's posted elsewhere lol.

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I think she probably punched out right before hard Rand phase but it was going to happen either way.  She'll probably come back and somehow be able to demonstrate it was her and Thom's love for eachother or some such that kept a lifeline open for her, and the how and why of it will be important for Rand and his three wives in terms of TG.  After that though she will have fulfilled her purpose in making sure the Dragon reached the last battle, and also having an actual life to live for after it (with Thom).  Returning her to some sort of advisory role makes no sense really.

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I think she will somehow help Rand get free of Moridin, or somehow screw him over using the link. I really look forward to her return because I think Rand will tell her about the connection and even about channeling the True Power.

 

I think to see a conversation from her PoV, where Rand details about Moridin being Ishamael returned from the grave, about Ishamael having plagued his dreams in the beginning, about the two becoming connected via the balefire incedent, that Rand knows of a thing called the True Power from Lews Therins memories and hes damn sure he used it in TGS, and that since then Ishamael in his new form has plagued his dreams again, but that somehow its different as if Moridin cant help it... it would be an awesome thing to have Rand speak about that, yet we get her PoV for it, and we see her remember that time in EotW where she declared that she would kill the boys if it stopped the Dark One from getting them... not only would that be an awesome scene in general, but I think it would be an opportunity for an Aes Sedai like Moiraine to show some down to earth behaviour, and if Moiraine were to think of all this, theres a chance she would think "Im not surprised hes kept this quiet. What would I have done if I found out, taking into account what I said in EotW? Maybe I was supposed to not be around while that happened, because I would have tried to kill him if I discovered it."

 

Maybe she is supposed to give Rand insight on the connection, based on her own experience. Like, if she were to question him and find out about the "move a hairswidth and we touch" thing, she might say "oh, thats what it feels like when I draw strength from a Warder, you could try this..."

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People seem to forget that until the middle of tSR Moiraine was typical AS(at least around Rand) then she started changing but the new Moraine was taken away too soon.  One reason Rand needed an advisor was that they may have been able to tell him fast enough to do something(either link or travel away) that some extra women in the Tower embassey could channel, that would've remedied alot of damage.

As for Moraine now, first deflate some(Egwene's) head a little and maybe she'll have crucial info for Min on how Rand is really supposed to defeat the Dark One.

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Rand trusts Moiraine. She proved it to him by subverting her wishes, and the Towers to him, she was the first AS to swear to Rand, and did so freely.

 

Some attribute the change to the Rings in Rhuidean, but in fact it had already started to happen long before.

 

In Tear she finally admitted to herself that Rand was going to go his own way, but she just wanted to know what he planned a bit before he told the rest of the world, so she could advise him of any obvious blunders or such. Yes, she still wanted no one else influencing him, but the girls themselves suggested going to Tanchico, and the WO's had Egwene going to the Waste.

 

Moiraine stops Egwene's protests when Mat talks Rand into letting his luck decide which symbol to choose on the Portal Stone to get to Rhuidean (tSR, 22: Out of the Stone). She's already starting to surrender a bit, as her response shows "What would you suggest I do? ....I can hardly drag him about by his ear?"

 

Then in her letter that Rand reads after he fight with Lanfear, she proves that she had his best interests (he'd be dead or a slave to Lanfear) and the world's ahead of her own by sacrificing her life for his.

 

He trusts her. She has the credibility like no other. She's walked the walk, twice now (the oath and the battle/letter). She's the reason he started to harden himself.

 

Her purpose will be to see that he wins the Last Battle. I think her role will be one of confidant. Rand CAN trust her, and he must realize he must do a better job trusting others. I think Moiraine will facilitate this process. She'll be incredibly useful dealing with the Tower (hell, she's killed one, maybe two Forsaken already, she'll be a legend with AS), plus Egwene and Siuan trust her. She'll also be useful with Cadsuane and some of the political maneuverings that are needed.

 

In the main, she'll be the confidant and conduit that allows Rand to be more human while still doing what he needs to do. And she'll also likely bring Thom back into his circle as well, which will be another trusted hand when he needs them the most.

 

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One more way she showed her character was she knew who Asmo was, either the same way she knew Sammael or because she eavesdropped.  She did nothing because she knew no one living except Foresaken could teach him.

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And Drekka Mort might have something there, you know, for that is one huge negative force for Rand still--how to cut that tie to Moridin.

 

Moiraine is blue ajah; they've got missions and he has been hers from day one. So she'll be back to doing what she can to help him succeed. I think it will be more than confidant status. She'll have a battle or else enable him to win one, something like that!

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If Moiraine had vital information for Rand's success at TG then she would have found some way to tell it. She doesn't know if she'll be freed from the ToG, she just hopes she will be.

 

I think it'll mostly have to do with Rand's list and she'll act as a bridge between him and the White Tower.

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If Moiraine had vital information for Rand's success at TG then she would have found some way to tell it. She doesn't know if she'll be freed from the ToG, she just hopes she will be.

 

I think it'll mostly have to do with Rand's list and she'll act as a bridge between him and the White Tower.

 

Not neccessarily. In a similiar vein with Mat, Thom was told not to tell him about the contents of the letter until he specifically asked, because she didn't want to sway him from his true path in the Pattern. Its entirely possible that she wont tell Rand what he needs to know until Mat rescues her. After all, its of extreme importance he does.

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If Moiraine had vital information for Rand's success at TG then she would have found some way to tell it. She doesn't know if she'll be freed from the ToG, she just hopes she will be.

 

I think it'll mostly have to do with Rand's list and she'll act as a bridge between him and the White Tower.

 

Not neccessarily. In a similiar vein with Mat, Thom was told not to tell him about the contents of the letter until he specifically asked, because she didn't want to sway him from his true path in the Pattern. Its entirely possible that she wont tell Rand what he needs to know until Mat rescues her. After all, its of extreme importance he does.

or she could negotiate for a deal with the finns for more knowledge in exchange for. . . imprisonment?

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For me, Mat and Thom's escapade to save Moiraine, if written correctly, (and I think BS has said that RJ wrote a lot for these scenes?  can someone verify this?) has the potential to be some of the best moments in the series!  I'm very interested in what 3 questions she asked of the Aelfinn.  Her attitude didn't change after asking her 3 questions that I could tell, it only started to change for real once she had been to Rhuidean.  So what questions did she ask I wonder?

 

1:  How can I make sure The Dragon Reborn reaches the Last Battle and win?  A: The Dragon, The Fox and The Wolf need to become one maybe? heh

 

I would imagine that a question like this would be top priority here.  The only reason I can see for not asking this is she feared questions touching the shadow.  *shrug*  Perhaps she'll have info regarding the Three Must Become One prophecy regarding the 3 Taveren.

 

I hope that Moiraine will lay the smack down on Egwene and get her off her seat though.  She already showed Egwene that Aes Sedai and White Towers goals mean nothing and yet Egwene seems to have forgotten this lesson somewhat.  I think another answer she would have recieved from the Aelfinn would be something like, "If you would be a servant, then you must remember how to control Saidar".  Anyways, can't wait for Moiraines return!  A lot of people, almost everyone of them need a smackdown and who better than Moiraine.

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If Moiraine had vital information for Rand's success at TG then she would have found some way to tell it. She doesn't know if she'll be freed from the ToG, she just hopes she will be.

 

I think it'll mostly have to do with Rand's list and she'll act as a bridge between him and the White Tower.

 

Not neccessarily. In a similiar vein with Mat, Thom was told not to tell him about the contents of the letter until he specifically asked, because she didn't want to sway him from his true path in the Pattern. Its entirely possible that she wont tell Rand what he needs to know until Mat rescues her. After all, its of extreme importance he does.

 

Moiraine doesn't know if she'll be freed or not. She fought with Lanfear without knowing. She saw Mat fail in the attempt and be trapped in there forever too. So knowing that, she would have found a way to make the information available to Rand if it was vital because there's a chance she would never see him again. She would not risk the world on her being freed or not.

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Assuming she knew vital information prior to her tackling Lanfear, it might also be she needed to go to finnland to acquire it in the first place.

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Seeing as moiraine went through the door to the foxes - I'm wondering if she will have a few "prizes" Matt went through and came back with his foxhead, memories and got out (albeit hanged)I wonder if moiraine asked the finn for anything and how she finished lanfear.

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Her position can't be minor in the next books at least. Her name is mentioned everywhere in tGS. "It all started with Moiraine""If only Moiraine was here..." So it seems to me that whatever she does, whethere it be helping Rand, Mat, Egwene or GL knows what, she'll be a major factor.

 

Mat's also going to have to cheat in order to get her out. Iron, musical instrument, fire, etc. Can you channel in finnland? I don't remember it being mentioned.

 

And how does an Aes Sedai fall in love with a gleeman anyhoo?

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Her position can't be minor in the next books at least. Her name is mentioned everywhere in tGS. "It all started with Moiraine""If only Moiraine was here..." So it seems to me that whatever she does, whethere it be helping Rand, Mat, Egwene or GL knows what, she'll be a major factor.

 

Mat's also going to have to cheat in order to get her out. Iron, musical instrument, fire, etc. Can you channel in finnland? I don't remember it being mentioned.

 

And how does an Aes Sedai fall in love with a gleeman anyhoo?

you can, remember rand backing out of the doorway in the stone with his fire sword in his hands

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What do you think happened that made Rand need the sword?

I assumed the finns went to grab him and carry him out like they did to mat but rand didnt want that to happen

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Moiraine said that only 3 would succeed in rescueing her. We know the 3. Mat, Thom, and that one dude. Jain Farstrider, Noal I think. What role will he play? He's been to Shara and back, to the ice caps, but what will he contribute in the Tower?

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