Cuendilar armour?

[Fains nose]

Is it possible that we will see egwene or bode get an armourer to make some really thin full body armour, or a shield, and then turn it into cuendillar? Its quick and easy to make, and impervious to anything, including balefire

[Silentvoice]

This is something I thought about, and kinda fits in with a past thread that I couldn't find. People talking about really obvious uses of the OP that would be completely overpowering, but are never mentioned in the books.

 

In this case though I wonder if it's too close to the construction of a weapon to be done by an Aes Sedai. It's not a weapon in the strict sense of the word, but is a tool of war.

 

I'm more interested in strange building designs with cuendillar. Using very very small amounts of building material, paperthin walls, very tall design, etc. Once you've made it into cuendillar it's indestructible!

 

[Thor]

Some people made a thread like this a couple years ago.

 

Cuendilar armour is pointless when the one power will just make you explode from within.

[bubbified]

Almost all the channelers we've seen fighting really suck at it though.  They don't fight like fencers or skilled warriors, they fight like battle ships from the early half of the last century, though they have the capability to be fighting like multiple robot drones carrying gps-tracking/heatseaking lazers and tactical nukes.

 

There's no gaurantee that your opponent even knows the weave for exploding things.  Even if they do, they still need to touch it to you.  Even if they can do both, caullindar armor would limit them to that attack only.  Or any other attack that you have to reach into the facegaurd with a weave.

 

Basically, when we see most channelers tossing fire and lightning at each other, we see that caulindar armor would've protected anyone in almost all those fights.  While wearing it, your opponent would have to think creatively to beat you, if they've never seen it before.  Few people in randland are creative, especially on the fly.

 

Theres always the chance that full body armor would block your weaves from going out, you might need to figure out where you weaves exit you from and leave that part open, along with your face.

 

I was also thinking about this, and brought it up on another thread.  Why don't all the FS have full battle gear?  If they spent 10 years in full control of many powerful and talented channelers, why don't they all have all the nice ter angreal you could think of that have battle applications.  They would've been wearing them during the strike, and still have them now.

[Thor]

Or they can just cut off air supply to whoever is inside the armor, or throw a huge boulder, or just seal off the cuendillar completely and trap the person inside forever hah, freeze his blood, drain his life force, etc.

 

Infinite number of ways of killing someone in cuendilar armour.  Such thing is only good for ornamentation.

[bubbified]

You're an idiot. I would say "no offense" but you clearly didn't read my post.

 

We haven't seen anyone but Ishy get crazy with ideas like that.  Almost every attack we've seen, including most of those made by the FS were attacks that would've been stopped by the armor.

 

If someone wore such armor, ALL attacks would need to be as creative as those Ishy made.  Most people would've been dead seconds after realizing their cool fireball didn't just kill their opponent even though their opponenet didn't duck.

 

If they are quick/smart enough to live past that first counter attack, then we still see that most don't know much more for attacking than fire or lighting.

 

On top of that, even if the person knows there are only so many ways they can kill you, it still limits the ways they can, and you are at an advantage.

 

If I went onto a battle field, I'd still wear armor, even knowing bad luck or a skilled warrior could take me out.  Those were things that could kill me anyway, but with the armor, those are the only things that could kill me, and it makes it harder for those things to kill me.

 

thats not necessary btw, calling you an idiot, i'll apologize when you aplogize for making me repeat myeslef

[Thor]

Iirc, it was Rand who froze an entire fist of trollocs.

[bubbified]

So we have one instance outside of Ishy of someone doing some crazy tricks.  The point is even more pronounced, most people in randland suck at channeling, and cuelander would provide massive protection against all of thosepeople.

[Charlz Guybon]

You guys are missing the point. Only the Aes Sedai know how to make cuendillar. Folks like Rand or the Aes Sedai themselves wouldn't be the people wearing the armor, but old fashioned warders. It would definitely give them an advantage against myrddraal.

[bubbified]

Hell no, it would give anyone an advantage in any fight in Randland.  Because you don't have to make it big and bulky like regular armor, you could make a fine weave, like rand did, and wear it under your cloths.  And you'd be gaurded against most physical, normal, attacks, and against most channeling attacks where the attacker didn't get inventive.  You'd have a lot less suits to make to cover the AS with egween, than trying to cover all the AS and AM and all the warders and soldiers.  Seems like since the evilness just before the war of power started, channelers would've been trying to protect themselves from anything they don't have plenty of time, and power, to defeat.

[imBored]

I haven't read the books in a while, but do they give any indication of how heavy cuendillar is? Even if its indestructible, it may be very heavy and thus not practical for armor.

 

I do like the architecture idea, though... Is whitebridge cuendillar? Cause that would explain its extreme thin-ness and white color...

[Durinax]

I haven't read the books in a while, but do they give any indication of how heavy cuendillar is? Even if its indestructible, it may be very heavy and thus not practical for armor.

 

I do like the architecture idea, though... Is whitebridge cuendillar? Cause that would explain its extreme thin-ness and white color...

I think weight depends on the base metal

 

second armour would have to be something like a breastplate not full plate armour since the rivots would fuse with the other pieces (my supporting bit is the harbor chain that they cant just lower to get out of the way)

 

and this was discussed earlier, since it would be a great way to help preserve rand for the final battle, another problem is that mot main characters wouldnt want any type of helm since it would limit their sights, which is very important to channellers and swordmasters alike

[bubbified]

Full plate armor could be made easily.  The pieces can be held together by anything after they are made into caulinder.  Chain mail could be made too, but it would take a lot longer, because they'd have to do it link by link, and wrap each link in a non metal before the transformation.  And ya, sight is important, but if you're making it thin as you want, it's not an issue.  You can make it fit the shape of your head as much as you wanted then turn it into cuallinder.  I know my own skin and hair (if it's a short haircut) never get in the way of my own sight.  Still, making a regular set of armor is a huge hassle and offers little protection when you're facing the wrong foe or bad luck, yet most soldiers on the battle field would love to wear as much armor as they could and still move, and most probably do wear as much as they can get their hands on.

 

I think it just comes down to the fact that RJ hasn't dressed the men in any sort of armor (aside from Mat, which I think he gets that because both perrin and rand get something cool, and I think RJ wanted Mat to be able to be himself around a woman who can channel, like spanking them and such if they get out of hand), because it's a manly thing.  The people with Matt, and probably perrin, comment on his lack of armor and it somehow makes their legends that much greater.

 

Besides, the pattern always makes it so that the jobs it needs done get done.  So armor for Rand would be superfluous.  Armor for anyone the pattern doesn't need for sure is definitely not too much though.

[supergirlfriday]

I think the reason it hasn't been more fully developed as a possibility is because Egwene, Leane and Bode are now the only AS with enough strength to do it (unless they teach the TAS), and Egwene's too important and busy doing other things to be making armour day and night. It would be a valuable tool, but perhaps too easy to circumvent in battle.

 

Besides, because men have more proficiency in Earth, the Asha'man should be doing it. Though it's been bred into them that they're dispensable, so they probably wouldn't bother doing it for other channelers, and unless Rand commanded Taim to get them onto it, Taim's not going to be that co-operative and suggest it himself. They're all about offence, not defence.

[Ozzie_aiel]

Would not be practical, cuendellar armor would protect you from the weaves of channelling but not the effects, lightning will knock you off your feet, fireballs will turn warriors into canned roasts, any cuncussive force would shatter the person inside.

 

Its also near impossible to make a cuendellar suit due to all the different movable parts needed. Cuendillar buildings may not be practical either, especially very tall ones, skyscrapers are not rigid, and cuendillar is. Its not really feasible to have a massive indestructable building, if you have to put it back up after every large storm.

 

What about power-forged armor? Like the blades, theyll be light, strong and a hell of a lot easier to make than cuendellar.

 

Also, since cuendillar is an earth weave, it is possible that the Ashaman will be able to find it and be much better than the Aie Sedai.

[bubbified]

If you had armor that could protect you from bullets, but not sharpnel, and it could be made as light as paper, wouldn't you wear it?  I think they probably have spent billions of dollars trying to produce such a thing, and billions more making it for nearly everyone who wants one.  So the armor is both practical and useful for its cost, at least for anyone who could get someone to make one for them.  Besides, the wearer would be completely protected where ever the armor covers them, except from the TP.  Shrapnel, fire, concussive force, all of those would only affect joints not connected and exposed areas.  The joints can be connected after they are turned into cuallinder, so no trouble there, and you are still in a much better spot if the only vulnerable place is your face, it's alot easier to protect one part of your body than all of your body.  It still also limits the types of weaves they should use on you, which strengthens your position as well.

 

Heartstone buildings would work well too.  Less fires danger.  And if they are build pyramidal or deep down, then you don't need to worry about storms or earthquakes.  You only need to worry if the earthquake knocks it down despite however deep you bury the base.

[Jeangray]

I think the reason it hasn't been more fully developed as a possibility is because Egwene, Leane and Bode

 

So, have Leane lead a full circle and give them *angreals too and you have yourself a cuendillar conversion assembly line ;).

[Fains nose]

I was thinking of it as like a breast plate and helmet that could be given to Ashaman who would go up against forsaken using balefire. Or considering how easy it is to make, you could just give it to common troops, balefire is obviously a lot more effective than steel, and all the people saying there are still ways to kill someone wearing balefire armour, so what, its still better than any other current form of armour, i know if i was mat, id be begging egwene for balefire armour for the  band. Its just so easy to make if you have the talent, and since men are stronger in the powers needed to make balefire, its a matter of time before they figure out the weave. Although it would be awesome, i dont realy want to see it, and i dont think we will, its just one of those creative uses of the power that would own that wel never see

[Thor]

Um strength has nothing to do with it, if you consider how leane could do it.

 

And anyways, like i said, there's no freaking way I'd ever want to wear a suit of cuendilar armour regardless of how strong my enemy is.  The thought of getting the armor fused up with me inside trapping me till i die with no way short of dark one's taint to free me is not pleasant at all.

[Ozzie_aiel]

How are you supposed to assemble a cuendillar armor once its been cuendillarized? I thought the point was nothing can then be done to change it into another shape, which is needed when you start adding buckles, straps, chain links, etc. Believe me, power-forged armor is the way to go, a lot cheaper, a lot quicker, and when you concider that non-channeller fighter to channeller ratio will be at about 1000-1, will provide more protection to the most number of people in the shortest time.

 

As for concussive force, if a cuendillar suit gets hit by a dragon egg, it may not get scratched, but the odds that the poor guy inside will be okay are so high not even Mat would take them.

[Demiandre]

How many power-wrought blades did we see in 12 books? Many blademasters have (or had for some). It's a common rare item. Rand has two f I remember well (the laman one was normal, no?). But have you ever heard of a single power wrought armor? Don't you find it strange? I know some would be lost in oceans or buried deep down on earth, but like swords, some would have escaped the Breaking...

[Ozzie_aiel]

True, but lets not forget that with the War of Power, swords were turned from a sport into a deadly art of war, so armour would be a relatively new thing. Also, with the need to arm and armor a massive amount of people within a small time, heavy plastic casing was probably the best they can manage.

 

Im not saying that power-wrought armor should be created for every last soldier, just that its better that cuendillar armor

[Durinax]

power wrought isnt better than cuendullar, while it is more feasable for full plate and mail armour, Cuendullar breast plates would be best for the main characters, since it would protect all vital organs except the brain, allowing for them to survive till healing

[Morsker]

Do people even wear armor in WoT? Rand, Mat, Perrin, and Lan don't, so I just assumed no one does, but I easily could've missed something.

[Demiandre]

Lan does. He has one in New Spring. First chapter if I rememeber correctly.