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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

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Lanfear was held captive by both sets of Finns before she was weakened in the power - that's clear from her PoV when she's fighting Alivia at Shadar Logoth.

So she didn't die in the doorway, while she and Moiraine were falling through it.

Also if a channeler is stilled and then transmigrated, Maria (MAFO) confirmed he/she would need to be healed in the new body before he/she could channel.

 

 

What I meant by the dying in the stone doorway was dying beyond it, my bad lol.

 

And when was that mentioned? Quotes =D?

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WH - the Cleansing at Shadar Logoth. Cyndane's Pov. She thinks of Alivia being stronger than she had been before she was held by the Finns - plural.

So she didn't die in the  doorway.

 

The transmigration- healing business - Luckers posted all the MAFO quotes somewhere on this forum. Somewhere in that thread it's clarified. If a channeler is stilled/ burnt out and then dies and is reborn normally, the new body won't need healing to use OP. But if a channeler is transmigrated the way GLoD does it, with memories intact, etc, then he/she will need to be healed in the new body.

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A thought about Moiraine, if she really has been severed during her fall within the arch, and if she's Healed, that means she will be able to... lie, right? Or use the power on non-shadowspawns and not needing to be in danger to do so. I don't know whether it can be significant, but the thought just occurred to me.

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Which if she has been severed means very few(if any) would recognize her.  Suian might, Lan might and Rand might from being around her so much and I think Lews therin was good at recognizing faces.

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Siuan and Lan would for sure - they've seen her before she developed agelessness and she'll look like a slightly older version of the girl they knew.

Cadsuane (and Elaida) probably would - same reason and she (edit: meaning Cads) noticed the Caraline-Moiraine  resemblance.

Thom and Mat might guess- since they've seen Leane and Suian before and after.

(Thom may just have seen her earlier as well before the agelessness took hold)

Anybody who's ever seen Caraline Damodred will have a very good chance at guessing.

Or of course, they'll mistake her for CD.

 

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"The stilled woman, like the man who has been gentled, is cut off from the True Source, always tantalized by the sense of saidar, yet unable to touch or channel it. The woman who is burned out can neither channel nor sense the Power. Stilling is usually done as punishment for a crime, while burnout occurs through overload or misuse of the power, or is the result of losing to an attack by a greater power while channeling."

 

From the "The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time" or "The Guide". So stilling and burning out are completely different, and I don't think being burned out can be healed since the connection to the Source is gone completely.

 

Fair enough. I've only read the novels.

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You know.... someone once told me that you can bet on anything in Vegas and they often do.  I wonder if anyone has ever bet on the outcome of theories on books?  Maybe we can let your money ride until the last battle.

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Wouldn't be cool if she was same strength but knew a lot more. Like there is another prisoner who is an AS from the age of legend and she taught her all kind of things (Count of Monte Kristo, anyone?). Oh, and because time might be different there, instead of being there for couple years our time Moiraine was there actually for... oh let say 150 year. *sigh* I can hope...:)

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Which if she has been severed means very few(if any) would recognize her.  Suian might, Lan might and Rand might from being around her so much and I think Lews therin was good at recognizing faces.

 

Well Thom is nothing if not observant and he likely had personnal reasons to have studied her face.

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Heh Moiraine always seemed pretty in control over her appearance although not necessarily in a vain way as in Lanfear for example.  Anyone can change their mugshot up a good bit if they really want to.  General body language and bearing probably play a larger role in identifying her for those that knew her.

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Heh Moiraine always seemed pretty in control over her appearance although not necessarily in a vain way as in Lanfear for example.  Anyone can change their mugshot up a good bit if they really want to.  General body language and bearing probably play a larger role in identifying her for those that knew her.

 

Yeah, I think that those  that truly know her will recognize her personality, body language as you say.

 

But I didnt think Moiraine really changed that much, I mean, she wouldnt have the ageless face and she would look younger, but she would still look pretty much the same? I am not sure, I suppose it will be the same as Leane and Suian, i jsut always pictured her as the same in NS and the main series, just younger...

 

Anyway, I have no idea what she will be, possibly stilled, but that wont really make much difference now that it can be healed, so it wont really be that big a part in the story, say, if they hadnt healed stilling, and she had to cope (much like Suian) it just seems kinda pointless.

 

OH, Moiriane, your stilled.

Dont worry, ill just grab Damer and fix that right up for you.

 

Unless as some suggest, she will refuse, but really, no channeler in their right mind would refuse.

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That would piss me off :P

 

I want as much Mo as possible.

Me too! She was and is my favorite character in the books. In fact, when she disappeared ...I almost quit reading the rest of the books!

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The reason for termination of the bond can be attributed to Moiraine being transported to an alternate universe. There is no precedent to this event in the WOT world till now. Personally I think that Moiraine will be back with full and perhaps increased powers.

 

Oh I hope so! The thought of her having no power is unbelievable to me. I want her to have more power so that those "upstarts" realize they still have things to learn.

 

Yes I am an older woman and I hate the fact that those young kids have more power in their little finger than the older Aes Sedai!  :'(

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Honestly, I think AS don't marry for a number of reasons; it could've started out as them not wanting to marry if they bear male children that can channel, Aiel and windfinders don't look on it the same way.  Then as they grew more arrongant and like the shining AS examples we know now it became we dimish the men by our radiance.  Lan didn't seem to have a problem with it, I know Thom wouldn't, Min doesn't and some wives and children of AM won't.  Now that Saidin is clean one impediment is removed and someone, Rand probably, needs to give the AS, including Egwene, several humble pies.

 

Oh I so do agree with your last sentence!!!! Egwene needs to eat a LOT of humble pies starting with one that Moraine bakes for her. And so does Naeve(sp)!!!!

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Honestly, I think AS don't marry for a number of reasons; it could've started out as them not wanting to marry if they bear male children that can channel, Aiel and windfinders don't look on it the same way.  Then as they grew more arrongant and like the shining AS examples we know now it became we dimish the men by our radiance.  Lan didn't seem to have a problem with it, I know Thom wouldn't, Min doesn't and some wives and children of AM won't.  Now that Saidin is clean one impediment is removed and someone, Rand probably, needs to give the AS, including Egwene, several humble pies.

 

Ehm i dunno if channeling is a genetic thing is it?

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I am wondering where Moiraine's foreknowledge of her confrontation with Lanfear came from. Was is it from her three questions in the doorway in Tear, or from the ter'angreal in Rhuidean? I was just having tangent thoughts, about how Mat's answers led him to the other doorway, and his...bargain with the other Finns. I thought it would interesting if something similar happened to Moiraine. and if so would she know what to expect about the other doorway, the gifts and prices and all that instead of questions. in other words, what kind of "thus the treaty is written" or "price is paid" kind of scenario could have happened to her in Finnland? Perhaps her captivity was the price for something she asked for...

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It was the rings that she went through, she appears to have kept some very specific memories from them somehow (Need, i would assume, similar to how they used Need to get to a place she could only go to once a second time, it is very powerful in randland).

 

I believe from the way she studied it she did have some idea what it did, and by her letter to Mat she knew the price she would pay to save Rand, but that it was the only possible way. (and i dont think the Finn's would take a bargain from someone who was actively channeling, since they can create iron, fire, and music, aka all the things they fear).

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I don't think Moiraine will be stilled or burnt out, because she didn't enter the doorway channeling, rather she just tackled Lanfear correct? I also don't think RJ would bring back Moiraine without allowing her to remain the epic character that she was, and to do that I think she needs to channel. Perhaps yes, she'll be stilled and then healed, but I don't lean that way. I suppose she could lose the ability to channel and still use her expertise at plotting and combine powers with Thom (another expert plotter) to help Rand win the LB. Nevertheless, I stick by my gut feeling that it wouldn't feel right if Moiraine lost her ability to channel. It's a part of her that defines her prowess. I'm excited to see how it unfolds.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm kinda liking the idea of Moiraine taking the Sun Throne. It would just be funny if Rand appointed her to the position, after reading in New Spring about how she ran from it and didn't want to be queen. Now that she has grown into such a figure of authority and strength as an Aes Sedai, and a skilled player of the Game, she would make a good ruler, and plus she has a better claim on it than Elayne, who already has a crown anyway. Thom could be her...court bard :wink:

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I'm kinda liking the idea of Moiraine taking the Sun Throne. It would just be funny if Rand appointed her to the position, after reading in New Spring about how she ran from it and didn't want to be queen. Now that she has grown into such a figure of authority and strength as an Aes Sedai, and a skilled player of the Game, she would make a good ruler, and plus she has a better claim on it than Elayne, who already has a crown anyway. Thom could be her...court bard :wink:

 

We know from NS that Moiraine is horrified at the prospect of being a ruler. She'll not sit on the throne of Cairhein. I think Dobraine (if he lives) is the best choice. Galad would also be a good choice.

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But Moiraine has changed greatly from the child she was in NS. She may just accept being a Queen if that is what it takes to unite the world for the last battle. Not only that, but this time it will not be forced on her by the tower, and she is not going to be the first Aes Sedai ruler in centuries, Elayne beat her to it.

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I don't think Moiraine will be stilled or burnt out, because she didn't enter the doorway channeling, rather she just tackled Lanfear correct? I also don't think RJ would bring back Moiraine without allowing her to remain the epic character that she was, and to do that I think she needs to channel. Perhaps yes, she'll be stilled and then healed, but I don't lean that way. I suppose she could lose the ability to channel and still use her expertise at plotting and combine powers with Thom (another expert plotter) to help Rand win the LB. Nevertheless, I stick by my gut feeling that it wouldn't feel right if Moiraine lost her ability to channel. It's a part of her that defines her prowess. I'm excited to see how it unfolds.

 

Moiraine "embraced the source" before she jumped Lanfear. She wasn't channeling according to the description. Whether it would have been enough to burn her out or not, we don't know. Lanfear clearly would have been much more at risk, she was channeling through an angreal and Moiraine snatched the angreal away from her.

However, there are two reasons to believe Moiraine was stilled -- 1) Lan felt the bond snap 2) the Finns who cannot channel have been able to hold her (we know it's possible to channel in one Finn realm at least because Rand did so). The second point is perhaps, debatable since the Finn may have ter'angreal that suppress channelling. But the first point makes it very likely that, if Moiraine is alive, she's stilled.

Also Moi's utility to Rand and the light is far more about her knowledge, and the trust Rand has for her, than her ability to channel (or not). Rand has oodles of strong channelers at his disposal; he doesn't have too many smart people he absolutely, implicitly trusts.

Edited by Sharaman
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