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Horn of Valere and Illian


xenocross
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Hi, this is my first post, my first thread, and my first theory

 

This theory concern the Horn of Valere and Illian, and what will happen in the next books

 

First lets consider some things:

 

1. The official Hunt for the Horn is always been called at Illian

 

2. Every Legend ties the Horn to Illian (said Thom)

 

3. Moiraine said "Its place is not here. The Horn must be carried to Illian. It is there, if fresh battles threaten, that it must rally the forces of the Light."

 

But did the horn reach Illian? No. It never go there. It is hidden somewhere in White Tower, with only Siuan and Verin knows where.

Consider again that Martin Stepanos, the former King of Illian is in the White Tower now. Coincidence? I don't think so.

 

So I think that one way or the other, The Horn will be presented to Martin Steppanos, by Rand or Mat, He will be the King once more, and rally the forces of Illian to follow Rand to the Last Battle.

 

How? I will love to see how Jordan and Brandon see to that  ;D

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interesting, and possible, indeed it does seem strange that the King (or former) of Illian is in the White Tower still.

 

However, Mat is the hornblower, and unless he dies, the horn will be usless to any others. So my guess, if the horn is to go to Illian (although I am concerned about the time to do this, and the necessity.) Septanos will find the horn in the tower by accident and go from there.

 

But I find it difficult to believe that the horn will go to illian now. That quote will Moiraine, she meant Rand to have an army from the start, that the horn would bring them to him, not a matter of prophecy or a viewing. (remember Rand at the time hadnt been proclaimed the DR, bringing the Horn to Illian would have given him an entire nation from the start)

 

So with Illian under Rand's control, I dont think the horn needs to go there, they already follow him and are on the march to SG already. Plus, using the Horn in Illian, (I know you did not say this but I am bringing it up for arguments sake) unless the battle will be in Illian, would be usless, Mat will most likely blow the horn at SG or wherever the battle is taking place in the Blight

 

 

 

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I agree with above.

 

Plus. Moirane or Thom (I can't remember which) say that there isn't any prophecy linking the Horn to the Dragon Reborn.

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I'd like to see Mat save Illian with the Horn, but I have a feeling Caemlyn will get that honor.

 

I do wonder about the continued survival of Stepanos, what's the point?

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Currently, the King of Illian is Rand, having been presented with the Crown of Swords after Stepaneos disappeared / was kidnapped. In fact, as Min points out in tGS, it's the only place where he has accepted the rulership (even the Car'a'Carn is 'not a Wetlander king'). What's the significance of that?

 

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I do wonder about the continued survival of Stepanos, what's the point?

 

One possibility is that Mattin Stepaneos will be useful to Egwene in establishing a post-Last Battle order.  With Rand dead (or ostensibly dead) after Tarmon Gai'don, Mattin will be a ruler Egwene can install with little opposition to his legitimacy who will then owe the Tower.

 

I agree with the idea that it is difficult for to foresee a reason for Mat (or anyone else) to take the Horn anywhere near Illian.  Unless they make a Horn Museum after Tarmon Gai'don.

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Firstly, if Rand in the first place took the horn to Illian, he would either be dead or prisoner to Sammael, secondly Rand may put Mattin in control of Illian so long as he remains loyal to Rand, as he has done with all the other countries he controls.

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Rand is not going to put Mattin Stepaneos in charge of anything.  Rand is the King of Illian, and will remain so until his death (whatever possibly non-traditional, non-permanent form that may or may not take).  Rand has put Gregorin den Lushenos in charge in his absence, and Gregorin has been loyal and effective.

 

However, Rand isn't going to be King of anything in relatively short order, which opens the door wide open for Mattin, especially with Egwene's backing, if she believes she has his loyalty, or at least supportive good-will.

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You really think there will be enough post TG material in the series to make this already old man a king again?  Really doesn't seem relevant.  He did have some connection to Tam though, that is the only interesting thing left about him.

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His connection to Tam is that Tam used to be a high ranking commander in Mattin's personal bodyguard, and Mattin is the one who gave Tam the now famously melted heron-mark sword.  I'm not certain how that would play into either the Horn going to Illian or any post-TG transition.

 

And Mattin may be old, but he doesn't seem to be in ill health.  He's probably got at least a decade left in him, enough to make a significant impact on starting a post-TG recovery, and more importantly from Egwene's point of view, establish a relationship between Illian and the Tower.

 

As far as the amount of material in the series ... I don't think that we'll get a whole bunch related to Mattin, no.  Probably more like a passing mention.  It's not like he played a huge role in Egwene's imprisonment arc: she just ran into him once.

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Highly speculative, but...

 

After TG, it is quite likely that the Seanchan will return to trying to conquer all of Randland. Before events made them push the assault on the White Tower, their next move would have been against Illian.

 

Now, with Rand dead, it is open for Stepaneos to reclaim the throne. A king with close ties to the White Tower in a nation next on the Seanchan hitlist, could be interesting...

 

 

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A king with close ties to the White Tower in a nation next on the Seanchan hitlist, could be interesting...

 

It certainly could be ... my guess is that would likely fall into the realm of a loose end not to be tied up in the text though.

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Moraine wanted the Horn carried to Illian because she knew whoever brought the horn to Illian would be such a big hero that they would have the whole nation and Hunters behind them.  She wanted Rand to do it to have a nation at his back.  It was before she knew about Sam. 

 

I don't know why Illian is the place the hunt is called, but I don't think there is anything tying it or the Horn to the last battle.  In fact Thom tells Rand in TGH that the only thing the Horn has in common with the Karth Cycle is that the Horn has to be found before the last battle. 

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Probably beause Illian hates Tear, Tear has Callandor they have to worry about, so they figured they'd hype up a more awesome artifact to associate themselves with.

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the hunt of the horn being called in Illian is strictly political genious.

 

i see it as at one point a bored king said that they need more tourist and thought:

"hey, Tear already have callandor. we need something legendary, perhaps the search of an item. and we'll make everyone come here and swear a completely useless oath. think of all the money with the crowd. and best of all, then they are forced to bring said legendary item here, and i can put it in my trophycase."

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I think who is King of Illian, or anywhere, is a rather moot point.  The world is at the beginning of major change that has always happened in Randland after a major event.  The change always led to a new world order that had major effect on the years after.  And one of those changes is old countries collapsing and new one being born.

 

1.  The Breaking of the World following the War of Power

    What was lost

        -Aes Sedai men, they all went insane

        -Basic Social order, anarchy ruled and every orginazation in the AoL fell apart (even the Aiel)

    The Recovery

        -Founding of the White Tower, a group a women channlers started to call themselves Aes Sedai

        and still any other women channlers who did the same and were not attached to the WT's 

        authority.

        -Compact of Ten Nations, Ten new countries started rebuilding society and and many queens were

        openly Aes Sedai.

 

2.  Trolloc Wars aftermath

    What was lost

        -The Ten Nations, five of them were destroyed outright during the Trolloc Wars.  The other five

        collapse to to dept and economics soon after the wars ended.

        -Lost of Aes Sedai trust, Queens could no longer openly be AS without starting a riot.

    Recovery

        -New countries formed

        -AS decided they needed to hobble themselves with the Oath Rod so get back some trust.  They

        started being extra sneaky and deceitful.

       

3.  War of a Hundred Years

    What was lost

        -With the exception of the borderlands all social order fell apart.

        -Libraries were burned if they had a book containing Hawkwing's name, leading to a loss of

        information.

    Recovery

        -New countries formed but a dwindling population caused half of them to collapse under their 

        own weight.

       

So following the examples and the fact TG is going to be a much bigger deal then the Trolloc Wars and Hawkwing's death, it stand to reason that the beginning of a new age will bring major social changes and like all the examples given above new countries and people to rule them.

 

 

 

 

 

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