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That Strange Voice at the end of TEotW


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The wind died. The screams died. The earth was still. Dust and smoke swirled back down the pass to surround him.

 

"The Light blind you, Ba'alzamon! This has to end!"

 

IT IS NOT HERE.

 

It was not Rand's thought, making his skull vibrate.

 

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL.

 

"Where?" He did not want to say it, but he could not stop himself. "Where?"

The haze surrounding him parted, leaving a dome of clear, clean air ten spans high, walled by billowing smoke and dust. Steps rose before him, each tanding alone and unsupported, stretching up into the murk that obscured the sun.

 

NOT HERE.

 

Through the mist, as from the far end of the earth, came a cry. "The Light wills it!" The ground rumbled with the thunder of hooves as the forces of humankind launched their last charge.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

Whose Voice is that? Shaitain? The Creator? And why the heck, have we seen it only once [if it isnt shaitain] and what could the voice mean?

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A number of past threads discussed the scene.

 

The most popular responses have been these:

-Dark One

-Creator

 

I agree with Creator.

 

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A number of past threads discussed the scene.

 

The most popular responses have been these:

-Dark One

-Creator

 

I agree with Creator.

 

 

It's the Creator, but I've never understood what he really meant.  What is it that is NOT HERE?

 

Callandor?

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What is it that is NOT HERE?  Callandor?

The books have not told what the 'it' is.  The most popular response for that was Tarmon Gaidon.

Until we get more information, all we can do is guess.

 

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What is it that is NOT HERE?  Callandor?

The books have not told what the 'it' is.  The most popular response for that was Tarmon Gaidon.

Until we get more information, all we can do is guess.

 

 

That's exactly what these forums are for.

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I also always guessed that it was the Creator saying that Tarmon Gai'don was not "here" yet.

 

It just doesn't really fit, though.  Why is it not here, instead of not now?  Or not yet?

 

Then when Rand asks "Where!" a doorway appeared-like he formed a gate for skimming or something, and he ends up fighting Ishy there with his blade of light.

 

"IT IS NOT HERE," always left me thinking the Creator was giving a hint about the story, rather than saying something about Tarmon Gai'don.  I don't think that this comment is meant to remain vague throughout the rest of the series.  We're going to hear the Creator speak again, before it's all done, or Rand is going to remember something significant about these words later.

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I kinda like to think of it as a conversation between the Creator and the DO that Rand picks up on because of the events he's taken part in.  He doesn't necessarily hear the whole thing and the answer "NOT HERE" isn't necessarily in response to him asking "where."

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This is going to sound terrible but I've always thought that that voice was the Creator, but then afterwards RJ discarded the idea of the Creator actually being involved ever again.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if these words are never mentioned again, to be honest. It dosn't seem to fit.

 

Unless it was always RJ's intention to put it in writing in book one:

 

Creator: I WILL PLAY NO PART *goes and drinks Whisky sour's at Copacabana*

 

Seems strange he would turn up at the start, prove his ability to speak to mortals, and then never do it ever again.

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I seem to remember that when Rand fought Ishamael one time there was like a black fog around Ishamael, and he yells "Aid me!" and the fog seemed to grow thicker. As if the fog was some representation of the Dark One. I wonder if that can be used to figure this out? If Rand was surrounded by smoke when the voice spoke, that might fit a similar representation of the Creator, given that it surrounded Rand and then he hears the voice.

 

Not sure if thats relevant, so... yeah. Dunno if it helps

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This is going to sound terrible but I've always thought that that voice was the Creator, but then afterwards RJ discarded the idea of the Creator actually being involved ever again.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if these words are never mentioned again, to be honest. It dosn't seem to fit.

 

Unless it was always RJ's intention to put it in writing in book one:

 

Creator: I WILL PLAY NO PART *goes and drinks Whisky sour's at Copacabana*

 

Seems strange he would turn up at the start, prove his ability to speak to mortals, and then never do it ever again.

 

Rand's a bit of a special case, I would say, given his recurring role.

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I also always guessed that it was the Creator saying that Tarmon Gai'don was not "here" yet.

 

It just doesn't really fit, though.  Why is it not here, instead of not now?  Or not yet?

 

Then when Rand asks "Where!" a doorway appeared-like he formed a gate for skimming or something, and he ends up fighting Ishy there with his blade of light.

 

"IT IS NOT HERE," always left me thinking the Creator was giving a hint about the story, rather than saying something about Tarmon Gai'don.  I don't think that this comment is meant to remain vague throughout the rest of the series.  We're going to hear the Creator speak again, before it's all done, or Rand is going to remember something significant about these words later.

 

To equate WoT to RL:  Tarmon Gai'don isn't just "the last battle" (an event), but a place well.  i.e. Armageddon is a place, the Apocalypse is what will happen at that place.

 

It has been years since I've read tEotW, but I don't remember that fight taking place at Shayol Ghul.

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Meh. Obviously we will never know, since Jordan wanted us to forget the stupid little saidin well at the Eye of the World. It is never mentioned again because its grand presentation was written before he realized the potential cash flow that ten more books of window dressing would bring. Now, my guess is that it would not be possible to connect the events at the Eye to the current design of the story line and the last battle. Better to see the first books as practice or Jordan getting the feel for creating the grand epic of wardrobe patterns, porcelain designs, and childish female characters that we all love.

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Meh. Obviously we will never know, since Jordan wanted us to forget the stupid little saidin well at the Eye of the World. It is never mentioned again because its grand presentation was written before he realized the potential cash flow that ten more books of window dressing would bring. Now, my guess is that it would not be possible to connect the events at the Eye to the current design of the story line and the last battle. Better to see the first books as practice or Jordan getting the feel for creating the grand epic of wardrobe patterns, porcelain designs, and childish female characters that we all love.

 

That definitely seems a bit cynical, given that we get a VERY early glimpse at the future from Min's visions, and there's stuff that still hasn't happened yet, like Mat's eye on a balance scale, Perrin's Broken Crown storyline, Rand's blood on Shayol Ghul.  There's a lot of stuff that took forever to come up, as well, like the Laurel crown, and maybe evidence of Rand's severed hand.  I suspect he knew all along the scope this story would take, and he intended to keep a consistency throughout.

 

It bears out, too, when he's confirmed some of what seemed like continuity errors in the first three books really aren't, and we've had plenty of explanations for most of them at this point.

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Meh. Obviously we will never know, since Jordan wanted us to forget the stupid little saidin well at the Eye of the World. It is never mentioned again because its grand presentation was written before he realized the potential cash flow that ten more books of window dressing would bring. Now, my guess is that it would not be possible to connect the events at the Eye to the current design of the story line and the last battle. Better to see the first books as practice or Jordan getting the feel for creating the grand epic of wardrobe patterns, porcelain designs, and childish female characters that we all love.

 

That definitely seems a bit cynical, given that we get a VERY early glimpse at the future from Min's visions, and there's stuff that still hasn't happened yet, like Mat's eye on a balance scale, Perrin's Broken Crown storyline, Rand's blood on Shayol Ghul.  There's a lot of stuff that took forever to come up, as well, like the Laurel crown, and maybe evidence of Rand's severed hand.  I suspect he knew all along the scope this story would take, and he intended to keep a consistency throughout.

 

It bears out, too, when he's confirmed some of what seemed like continuity errors in the first three books really aren't, and we've had plenty of explanations for most of them at this point.

 

I agree. A LOT was foreshadowed in the Eye of the World. Just because the EotW didn't end up being as central to the plot as it was originally intended doesn't mean everything was changed. The EotW was probably intended to be used to teach the Dragon to channel, so that he could do so without going mad.

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Well I asked Brandon about this ages ago (like 6 months ago) and last week he replied to me

 

My email

 

Hi Brandon,

I just bought a copy of Warbreaker from amazon.co.uk, I read the book at work after downloading it from your site and loved it so much I couldn't wait to buy a copy for myself.

I wanted to get a signed and numbered (and personalised copy) but sadly the shipping fees and the telephone calls to the store in USA put me off (I live in Scotland).

I have one question about The Wheel of Time if you have time to answer me directly or on your blog on brandonsanderson.com.

I know you have stated that some things will be explained in the final 3 books, such as Asmo's death.

What I want to ask is: will it ever be explained who is the owner of the VOICE at the end of tEotW?  Is it the Creator or the Dark One that is contacting Rand or another entity?

Any indication if this will be answered in the final books will settle my unease as this was one of the key scenes that made me read the rest of the series and I would hate to be left hanging.

(A simple 'yes' or 'no' reply would even be great, lol)

Cheers

Fraser

 

 

 

Brandon's response

 

Fraser,

Thanks so much for writing me!

I apologize that this response is so late in coming. 

I've been very backed up on email and getting back to people has taken a lot longer than I planned. 

I'm so glad that you enjoyed WARBREAKER! 

Thank you for buying a hard copy too.

As for your question, I'll I can say is yes you will find out so RAFO.

I hope you enjoyed THE GATHERING STORM.

Best,

Brandon

 

 

 

so there you have it, we WILL be told what the deal is with the voice, we just have to RAFO

 

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Well I asked Brandon about this ages ago (like 6 months ago) and last week he replied to me

 

My email

 

Hi Brandon,

I just bought a copy of Warbreaker from amazon.co.uk, I read the book at work after downloading it from your site and loved it so much I couldn't wait to buy a copy for myself.

I wanted to get a signed and numbered (and personalised copy) but sadly the shipping fees and the telephone calls to the store in USA put me off (I live in Scotland).

I have one question about The Wheel of Time if you have time to answer me directly or on your blog on brandonsanderson.com.

I know you have stated that some things will be explained in the final 3 books, such as Asmo's death.

What I want to ask is: will it ever be explained who is the owner of the VOICE at the end of tEotW?  Is it the Creator or the Dark One that is contacting Rand or another entity?

Any indication if this will be answered in the final books will settle my unease as this was one of the key scenes that made me read the rest of the series and I would hate to be left hanging.

(A simple 'yes' or 'no' reply would even be great, lol)

Cheers

Fraser

 

 

 

Brandon's response

 

Fraser,

Thanks so much for writing me!

I apologize that this response is so late in coming. 

I've been very backed up on email and getting back to people has taken a lot longer than I planned. 

I'm so glad that you enjoyed WARBREAKER! 

Thank you for buying a hard copy too.

As for your question, I'll I can say is yes you will find out so RAFO.

I hope you enjoyed THE GATHERING STORM.

Best,

Brandon

 

 

 

so there you have it, we WILL be told what the deal is with the voice, we just have to RAFO

 

If this is not a very poorly taste joke, than I have to say "YEAHHH!!!! or F*** YEAH!!!!" this whole thing about the voice to me is more important than who killed Asmo or the BcUT. The whole WoT universe revolves around those words (the nature of DO and more importantly the Creator and the purpose i guess). In any event, without being too deep, we NEED TO FIND OUT NOW! WHERE IS THE ToM and MoL???? :)

I think I'll start the countdown web page for the release of MoT...yes I will. :D

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The wind died. The screams died. The earth was still. Dust and smoke swirled back down the pass to surround him.

 

"The Light blind you, Ba'alzamon! This has to end!"

 

IT IS NOT HERE.

 

It was not Rand's thought, making his skull vibrate.

 

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL.

 

"Where?" He did not want to say it, but he could not stop himself. "Where?"

The haze surrounding him parted, leaving a dome of clear, clean air ten spans high, walled by billowing smoke and dust. Steps rose before him, each tanding alone and unsupported, stretching up into the murk that obscured the sun.

 

NOT HERE.

 

Through the mist, as from the far end of the earth, came a cry. "The Light wills it!" The ground rumbled with the thunder of hooves as the forces of humankind launched their last charge.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

Whose Voice is that? Shaitain? The Creator? And why the heck, have we seen it only once [if it isnt shaitain] and what could the voice mean?

 

It's David Attenborough.

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The quote from the book that began this thread is interesting. Mostly because it is the very first clue to the actual ending. RJ was originally planning a much smaller series. Thats why we see Rand kinda going nuts en route to The Stone and even kills a woman without thinking twice. He even propped up the bodies and had them kind of pay homage to him.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Now I could be way off, as I had also thought the voice to be the Creator, but as I read it again, I start to think this is the Dark One's voice. One bad reason is that we witness the Dark One speaking several times throughout the series. A better reason (although very refutable) is the term "CHOSEN" used, as in, "I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL." Now I know the terms "the chosen one" make it seem like it will be the Dragon, but what if it meant Nae'blis? Likely the Dark One was thinking Ishy would be a good Nae'blis candidate early on, and perhaps here the Dark One is hoping that Ishy will do the his dirty work.

 

The "IT IS NOT HERE" in this case likely refers to Tarmon Gaidon, and the Dark One, this early on, does not want to directly affect events, rather, he wants to meet the Dragon only at Tarmon Gaidon. Soon though, Rand will start wreaking havoc on the Dark One's minions, so the Dark One decides to increase his touch on the world.

 

In the end, I'm probably wrong, but I felt like playing Dark One's advocate  :D

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I'm pretty sure the Dark One's already "TAKING PART", since he strained to keep the seasons in place according to Moridin.  (although he is the "Father of Lies")

 

But I'm thinking it's the other TALKS ALL IN CAPS character we can assume to exist, the Creator.  I was always confused by what he meant by his IT IS NOT HERE comment though, and would very much enjoy reading an answer to this in AMOL, which will apparently happen.

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Well I asked Brandon about this ages ago (like 6 months ago) and last week he replied to me

 

My email

 

Hi Brandon,

I just bought a copy of Warbreaker from amazon.co.uk, I read the book at work after downloading it from your site and loved it so much I couldn't wait to buy a copy for myself.

I wanted to get a signed and numbered (and personalised copy) but sadly the shipping fees and the telephone calls to the store in USA put me off (I live in Scotland).

I have one question about The Wheel of Time if you have time to answer me directly or on your blog on brandonsanderson.com.

I know you have stated that some things will be explained in the final 3 books, such as Asmo's death.

What I want to ask is: will it ever be explained who is the owner of the VOICE at the end of tEotW?  Is it the Creator or the Dark One that is contacting Rand or another entity?

Any indication if this will be answered in the final books will settle my unease as this was one of the key scenes that made me read the rest of the series and I would hate to be left hanging.

(A simple 'yes' or 'no' reply would even be great, lol)

Cheers

Fraser

 

 

 

Brandon's response

 

Fraser,

Thanks so much for writing me!

I apologize that this response is so late in coming. 

I've been very backed up on email and getting back to people has taken a lot longer than I planned. 

I'm so glad that you enjoyed WARBREAKER! 

Thank you for buying a hard copy too.

As for your question, I'll I can say is yes you will find out so RAFO.

I hope you enjoyed THE GATHERING STORM.

Best,

Brandon

 

 

 

so there you have it, we WILL be told what the deal is with the voice, we just have to RAFO

 

If this is not a very poorly taste joke, than I have to say "YEAHHH!!!! or F*** YEAH!!!!" this whole thing about the voice to me is more important than who killed Asmo or the BcUT. The whole WoT universe revolves around those words (the nature of DO and more importantly the Creator and the purpose i guess). In any event, without being too deep, we NEED TO FIND OUT NOW! WHERE IS THE ToM and MoL???? :)

I think I'll start the countdown web page for the release of MoT...yes I will. :D

 

No joke, you can only take my word for it, but it's no joke.

I was as giddy as school girl when I go the reply from Brandon, I'd actually forgot I emailed him.

I also emailed him to see if TOR would ever do a full leather bound edition of the series once it was complete but I never got an answer back about that *fingers crossed* though cause that would be awesome.

No matter how much it would cost, I'd buy it.

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Well I asked Brandon about this ages ago (like 6 months ago) and last week he replied to me

 

My email

 

Hi Brandon,

I just bought a copy of Warbreaker from amazon.co.uk, I read the book at work after downloading it from your site and loved it so much I couldn't wait to buy a copy for myself.

I wanted to get a signed and numbered (and personalised copy) but sadly the shipping fees and the telephone calls to the store in USA put me off (I live in Scotland).

I have one question about The Wheel of Time if you have time to answer me directly or on your blog on brandonsanderson.com.

I know you have stated that some things will be explained in the final 3 books, such as Asmo's death.

What I want to ask is: will it ever be explained who is the owner of the VOICE at the end of tEotW?  Is it the Creator or the Dark One that is contacting Rand or another entity?

Any indication if this will be answered in the final books will settle my unease as this was one of the key scenes that made me read the rest of the series and I would hate to be left hanging.

(A simple 'yes' or 'no' reply would even be great, lol)

Cheers

Fraser

 

 

 

Brandon's response

 

Fraser,

Thanks so much for writing me!

I apologize that this response is so late in coming. 

I've been very backed up on email and getting back to people has taken a lot longer than I planned. 

I'm so glad that you enjoyed WARBREAKER! 

Thank you for buying a hard copy too.

As for your question, I'll I can say is yes you will find out so RAFO.

I hope you enjoyed THE GATHERING STORM.

Best,

Brandon

 

 

 

so there you have it, we WILL be told what the deal is with the voice, we just have to RAFO

 

If this is not a very poorly taste joke, than I have to say "YEAHHH!!!! or F*** YEAH!!!!" this whole thing about the voice to me is more important than who killed Asmo or the BcUT. The whole WoT universe revolves around those words (the nature of DO and more importantly the Creator and the purpose i guess). In any event, without being too deep, we NEED TO FIND OUT NOW! WHERE IS THE ToM and MoL???? :)

I think I'll start the countdown web page for the release of MoT...yes I will. :D

 

No joke, you can only take my word for it, but it's no joke.

I was as giddy as school girl when I go the reply from Brandon, I'd actually forgot I emailed him.

I also emailed him to see if TOR would ever do a full leather bound edition of the series once it was complete but I never got an answer back about that *fingers crossed* though cause that would be awesome.

No matter how much it would cost, I'd buy it.

It seems we have more than one thing in common.

Regarding the word "chosen one" - very interesting indeed. I always thought that our understanding of DO and the Creator is wrong. Like, the Creator is above the DO. But what if the Creator is one entity where the DO is simply an extension of it. Kind of like DO and the Creator are the part of the same and it all comes down to humans' choice. The symbol of AS would make a lot more sense if we would assume that "black is white and the white is black" to some degree (not to oversimplify the yin and yen :))

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