Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
shadowkiller_001

Min's Unfulfilled Visions (Probable Spoilers)

Recommended Posts

- man juggling fire - vision about Thom ; Egwene had a dream about Thom pulling a blue stone out of a fire and

it's the stone hanging from Moraines forehead....

- Trees flowering around Perrin ; No idea about that.

- Vision of Egwene being tied to Galad ; Egwene had a dream about a golden Hawk reaching

out and touching her and she knew she was linked, I'm sure this applies to Galad as a Warder & I have

a suspision he is a direct decendant of Hawkwing and the heir to Hawkwings armies.....

- vision of Elayne 'a red hot iron and an axe' ; I like the theory in one of the above posts about this.

- glory above all other men for Logain ; Logain will step over the body of Rand at Shayol Gul...

obviously to do something heroic.

- Carlinya and her Raven Tattoos ; whos Carlinya?

- “a bloody hand and white-hot iron...”  -- only the white hot iron part peaks my interest. ; but I think it may

have to do with Moraines rescue...

- the second time that Perrin saves Rand's life. ; no idea...

- the Moridin merge thing... it just seems to clear-cut to be literal though, it's so unlike RJ. no idea.

- woman dead and gone... are we sure it's moiraine? couldn't be cadsuane (everyone assumed she was dead and gone) ; Moraine will be back.

- what is it that Rand and the Asha'man "won't like at all" that Cadsuane teaches them.?she will teach them to laugh...

- what is the "odd thing" about Avhienda's 'four' babies? ; no idea.

- the 'dark' around Bashere... too obvious to mean 'darkfriend' i think.. but who knows? ; no idea...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- Vision of Egwene being tied to Galad ; Egwene had a dream about a golden Hawk reaching

out and touching her and she knew she was linked, I'm sure this applies to Galad as a Warder & I have

a suspision he is a direct decendant of Hawkwing and the heir to Hawkwings armies.....

 

Egwene's Dream about the golden hawk being tied to her specifically says it is a female hawk (ACoS Ch. 10) so it can't be related to the Egwene-Galad viewing. For that Dream most people have been leaning more toward it being either Berelain or a Seanchan woman (probably the Seanchan since this could tie with her other Dreams about a Seanchan woman)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...

As for Aviendha's babies, it has been theorized that two will be Elayne's and two will be Aviendha's, but they both showed up over Avi's head because of the sister bond.

 

I've heard a similar theory but it was with Min she will share two of the babies.  I think Min will be unknowingly pregnant at the time Aviendha adopts her as a first sister.

I don't think it would happen. I think it could be that Aviendha was pregnant from tFoH and didn't know. So when she and Elayne adopted each other as first sisters Aviendha's babies also share the bond. this could be the strange thing about them.And it was stated in WH that Aviendha would have Four babies from Rand and thre was nothing about any bond.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...

As for Aviendha's babies, it has been theorized that two will be Elayne's and two will be Aviendha's, but they both showed up over Avi's head because of the sister bond.

 

I've heard a similar theory but it was with Min she will share two of the babies.  I think Min will be unknowingly pregnant at the time Aviendha adopts her as a first sister.

I don't think it would happen. I think it could be that Aviendha was pregnant from tFoH and didn't know. So when she and Elayne adopted each other as first sisters Aviendha's babies also share the bond. this could be the strange thing about them.And it was stated in WH that Aviendha would have Four babies from Rand and thre was nothing about any bond.

 

I doubt she could be pregnant from tFoH and not know by now. For one thing, Elayne is at least halfway through her pregnancy and she should look it by now - Avi would have to be even further along. I highly doubt she and everyone else wouldn't be able to tell by now that she was very obviously pregnant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...

As for Aviendha's babies, it has been theorized that two will be Elayne's and two will be Aviendha's, but they both showed up over Avi's head because of the sister bond.

 

I've heard a similar theory but it was with Min she will share two of the babies.  I think Min will be unknowingly pregnant at the time Aviendha adopts her as a first sister.

I don't think it would happen. I think it could be that Aviendha was pregnant from tFoH and didn't know. So when she and Elayne adopted each other as first sisters Aviendha's babies also share the bond. this could be the strange thing about them.And it was stated in WH that Aviendha would have Four babies from Rand and thre was nothing about any bond.

 

I doubt she could be pregnant from tFoH and not know by now. For one thing, Elayne is at least halfway through her pregnancy and she should look it by now - Avi would have to be even further along. I highly doubt she and everyone else wouldn't be able to tell by now that she was very obviously pregnant.

 

Aviendha's future pregnancy and later birth of four children, has generally struck me as being an event which would occur "after" Rand's death and the sealing of the Bore. When he gains a chance to live once again, somehow.

 

 

Why can't Rand retain the same soul, yet look slightly different in his next life too? 

 

  Aviendha's babies would look different, because the father's genetics have altered what some in his 2nd life. That's my best hunch on this topic.

 

Source: Winter's Heart book - Chapter 13 "A Lily in Winter" - Min pov with Aviendha in Caemlyn.

 

Min wondered whether to tell her what she had seen while they were all together. Aviendha would have Rand’s babies, too. Four of them at once! Something was odd about that, though. The babies would be healthy, but still something odd. And people often did not like hearing about their futures, even when they said they wanted to. She wished someone could tell her whether she herself would . . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- Vision of Egwene being tied to Galad ; Egwene had a dream about a golden Hawk reaching

out and touching her and she knew she was linked, I'm sure this applies to Galad as a Warder & I have

a suspision he is a direct decendant of Hawkwing and the heir to Hawkwings armies.....

 

Egwene's Dream about the golden hawk being tied to her specifically says it is a female hawk (ACoS Ch. 10) so it can't be related to the Egwene-Galad viewing. For that Dream most people have been leaning more toward it being either Berelain or a Seanchan woman (probably the Seanchan since this could tie with her other Dreams about a Seanchan woman)

 

That blows that theory...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tamirlyn was a person, not a position. I don't know where people got this idea that it was otherwise. RJ has stated that as well.

 

The issue come from "the ring of the Tamyrlin" said to have been possessed by Lews Therin Telamon. In the actual books I can't recall an exact quote. In the big ugly white book (The World of RJ's WOT mine's paperback page 31-32) in the Age of Legends chapter "Lews Therin Telamon, who was then First Among Servants, wore the ring of the Tamyrlin and summoned the Nine Rods of Dominion."

 

This leads people to infer that the title of First might have been Tamyrlin or could have been where the title Amyrlin derives it meaning.

 

 

It was not the ring of THE tamyrlin, but the ring OF tamirlyn.

 

Tamyrlin was the one who discovered the OP. It is not a position. RJ came out and debunked this a while ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was not the ring of THE tamyrlin, but the ring OF tamirlyn.

 

Tamyrlin was the one who discovered the OP. It is not a position. RJ came out and debunked this a while ago.

 

The issue still stands that many sources have the oh so erroneous the. I was mostly pointing where people got the idea, esp. because "RJ said so" is getting hard to nail down and show where and non-referenced data is so rampant on the 'net.

 

Not to be mean or cause a fight but "word of god" changes. There was a time when George Lucas stood behind "Gen. Thrawn's think tank designed and built the Death Star." Now it was all done with Genosians. I'm not saying things can't change but when there are printed "facts" sometimes that's all some people get their information from. I for one still have trouble keeping up with all the debunked theories just because RJ said "nope try again."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

   If "body swap"...

Dreamwalker's http://telaranrhiod-awheeloftimeblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/body-swap.html

   ...will happen then, I think that the oddity of Avi's babies could be because they will actually be from Moridin... I mean Rand in Moridin's body. From whom is taken the Moridin's body? Of which blood will be Avi's babies then?

 

 

Yay someone reads my blog!  ;D You just made my day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...

As for Aviendha's babies, it has been theorized that two will be Elayne's and two will be Aviendha's, but they both showed up over Avi's head because of the sister bond.

 

I've heard a similar theory but it was with Min she will share two of the babies.  I think Min will be unknowingly pregnant at the time Aviendha adopts her as a first sister.

 

Mins viewing was;

Aviendha would have Rand's babies, too. Four of them at once! Something was odd about that, though. The babies would be healthy, but still something odd.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always thought the "something odd" was that her children would be able to channel... But I guess it might be from the whole Rand after he died (perhaps body swap) theory thingymabobber... RAFO xD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unrelated question...how can Min acurrately predict the bizarre changes the Pattern makes, seemingly last minute, around Ta'veran?  Alright, knife in the dark time:

 

I am going to post the real quotes here, if nobody minds (all taken from: http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Min's_viewings):

 

- man juggling fire - vision about Thom

 

“A man — not him — juggling fire, and the White Tower.”

 

This one is confusing.  Is he juggling the White Tower, or is the White Tower seperate from the juggling?  I think this is too generic to get pinned down to a single event.  The people around Thom are always trying to 'juggle' more factions than they can handle, be it Egwene, Elayne, Rand, or Mat.  The White Tower portion is interesting...I suspect Towers of Midnight will shed light on this since we have at least three prominent, plot-defining towers throughout the lands: The White Tower, The Tower of Ghenjei (sp?), and the Black Tower.  Note that two of them are related to channeling.

 

- Trees flowering around Perrin

 

“A wolf, and a broken crown, and trees flowering all around Perrin.”

 

Obviously, the first two have happened already.  The Broken Crown will be gained when Bashere dies.  Trees flowering all around him could mean absolutely anything.  It could be the orchard where his parents were killed.  It could be some relation to the orchard.  It could represent trees in the 'wolf dream'.  It could represent meeting the Green Man.  It may or may not have already come to pass.

 

- Vision of Egwene being tied to Galad

 

“I've read you, Egwene.... I see things I am sure link you to Rand, and Perrin, and Mat, and - yes, even Galad”

 

Again, this may have happened already.  Galad is about to become a member of the 'Team of Light' (totally just made that up).  Basically, he's about to join all the other main characters asgainst the Shadow.  Egwene is part of that same struggle.  It could also refer to Galad trying to find Egwene, killing people in Samara because he thinks he may be helping her, and even his taking to the Whitecloaks.

 

- vision of Elayne 'a red hot iron and an axe'

 

“Above Elayne's, a red-hot iron and an axe.”

 

I am guessing the axe means Perrin will meet up with Elayne at some point, bearing Morgase.  The red hot iron definitely sounds like torture, and we know Elayne wanted to torture Ispan.  Likely she will torture the Black Sisters captured in KoD and prove my theory that they killed Asmodean.  (BAM, I went there)

 

- glory above all other men for Logain

 

“a flaring halo around his head, radiant in gold and blue. It shouted of glory and power to come.”

 

After TG, he will probably replace Taim as the male version of the Amyrlin Seat.  M'Hael is the current term.

 

- Carlinya and her Raven Tattoos

 

“an image of a raven floating beside her dark hair; more a drawing of the bird than the bird itself. She thought it was a tattoo, but she did not know its meaning.”

 

We know nothing of this yet, but it seems clear that it is related to the Seanchan somehow.  I'm guessing she will become a Seanchan prisoner or ambassador, or something along those lines.  For those wondering who she is, she's the White Ajah representative that controlled Salidar along with Sheriam and the others.  She is one of the rebel Aes Sedai that swore fealty to Egwene.

It is also possible that the raven relates to her being a darkfriend in the future, since Trollocs use raven symbols as well.

 

- “a bloody hand and white-hot iron...”  -- only the white hot iron part peaks my interest.

 

“A sword that isn't a sword, a golden crown of laurel leaves, a beggar's staff, you pouring water on sand, a bloody hand and white-hot iron, three women standing over a funeral bier with you on it, black rock wet with blood, lightning around you, some striking at you, some coming out of you. You and I will meet again.”

 

The beggar's staff and the white hot iron have yet to come true.  The beggar's staff has been referenced to many times throughout the series and accentuates the Fisher King theme throughout the books.  It is thought that the beggar's staff may relate to Rand's trip through Ebou Dar at the end of the Gathering Storm.  The white-hot iron, I believe relates to Elayne.  Min had a viewing around Elayne of a bloody hand that belonged to somebody else, which obviously indicates Rand's lost hand.  Likewise, Rand now has a vision about Elayne around his head.

 

- the second time that Perrin saves Rand's life.

 

This one has no direct quote.  Min simply tells Rand Perrin has to be there twice, I'm not sure we ever hear her speak the vision aloud.

 

I would assume this is TG.  From that same website I mentioned above:  "When Rand and Perrin were together, Min saw the same image with the fireflies and shadow, but this time the fireflies were holding their own. This seems to indicate that Rand on his own cannot win Tarmon Gai'don, but with Perrin's help, he stands an even chance."

 

- the Moridin merge thing... it just seems to clear-cut to be literal though, it's so unlike RJ.

 

“I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and....one of you dies, and one doesn't.”

 

It is possible that ti concerns Rand's epiphany concerning Lews Therin at the end of TGS.

 

- woman dead and gone... are we sure it's moiraine? couldn't be cadsuane (everyone assumed she was dead and gone)

 

I assume this is Moiraine.

 

- what is it that Rand and the Asha'man "won't like at all" that Cadsuane teaches them.?

 

“It's Cadsuane. She is going to teach you something, you and the Asha'man. All the Asha'man, I mean. It's something you have to learn, but I don't know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You aren't going to like it at all.”

 

This one is tough.  How can Cadsuane have any effect on so many men at once without reaching the Black Tower?  Rand taught himself laughter and tears again and it hardly seems a lesson that every Asha'man can learn.  I can only assume she'll help them avoid using Balefire and simply accept that the Forsaken will keep coming back (a real shame).

 

- what is the "odd thing" about Avhienda's 'four' babies?

 

“Aviendha would have Rand's babies, too. Four of them at once! Something was odd about that, though. The babies would be healthy, but still something odd.”

 

Could relate to just about anything.  PErsonally I favour the theory that two of them are Elayne's children and they showed up above Aviendha's head because of the sister bond.  It is also thought they will be able to channel, or they will be identical, or any number of other possibilities. (Why does nobody in WoT just have one kid?)

 

- the 'dark' around Bashere... too obvious to mean 'darkfriend' i think.. but who knows?

 

“And there's something... dark... in the images I saw around Lord Davram.”

 

It could mean darkfriend, but I really hope not.  Bashere is one of my favourite secondary characters.  It could simply mean a life of battle ahead, or perhaps an execution at the hands of his queen.

 

Here are more that you missed (from the same website):

 

tEotW:

 

A red eagle, an eye on a balance scale, a dagger with a ruby, a horn, and a laughing face.

 

The laughing face may or may not have come to pass.  Egwene's dream of Mat gambling with a laughing Dark One seems like it may have counted.  The eye has been discussed to death and there is currently another thread on it (at least one).  So I won't get into that.

 

Seven ruined towers around Lan's head, and a babe in a cradle holding a sword.

 

Perhaps Lan will survive and Nynaeve will have a child?

 

LoC:

 

She saw a wreath around the Maiden of the Spear Enaila[10]; this appears to be the Aiel marriage wreath, but the result has not been shown to come to pass yet

 

I'm not sure this will happen in the books, since its pretty unimportant.

 

She saw that Berelain would fall head over heels for a man in white.

 

Some think this is a gai'shain, personally I've always thought Galad fit the bill, especially since he's about to meet up with Perrin.

 

tPoD:

 

Sarene:

“A tempestuous love affair, of all things!”

Nesune:

“One red-and-green aura spoke of honors, and fame. A huge building appeared above her head and vanished. A library she would found.”

 

Pretty straight forward.  I can't see these having a huge impact on the books and the library is most likely not going to happen until after TG.  Rand does often talk about leaving something behind though.

 

WH:

 

You said she was going to help me die… Those were your words

 

Relating to Alivia.  This also fits in with all the prophecies surrounding Rand dying and living again, his blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, etc;  I don't wanna get into that here though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In any case, quads suggest something biologically unusual.

AFAIK, human quads occur very rarely in unassisted pregnancies.

Either an embryo splits twice post fertilisation (4 identicals)

or two embryos split (2 sets of identical twins)

or very, very rarely, three or four eggs are simultaneously fertilised (frats or frats+twins).

Sometimes in assisted preg, drugs are taken to induce embryo splits.

 

So, what about artificial insemination for Avi's babies?

Or surrogate motherhood?

Or both.

We know OP can be used to manipulate genetics (ala Aginor)

The idea being, Rand dies, and maybe Min dies as well.

Rand's semen/ DNA is rescued/ recreated. Or Min's embryos/ ovi are rescued.

Avi ends up literally holding the babies.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

vision of Elayne 'a red hot iron and an axe'

Just a thought here,maybe reference to a new "power" forged weapon.An Axe imbude with the power aka "power forged sword".It would seen to my novice eyes that this refers to Perrin.Red hot iron is a forge...yes Aes Sedai connot make weapons,but Elayne has not held the oath rod.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to add, mat literally juggled the fireworks. Once  in the tenth book while talking with Aludra, and I think he did something similar in the third book while he was with Thom and messing with the fireworks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and....one of you dies, and one doesn't.”

 

It is possible that ti concerns Rand's epiphany concerning Lews Therin at the end of TGS.

 

Having just finished a reread of Crown of Swords 5 minutes ago, and the battle in Shadar Logoth fresh in my mind...I have a very strong feeling she's talking about Rand and Moridin merging into one another when their balefires touched. There's other evidence that links the two together, but there's another thread on that issue and their connection so I'll leave it at that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Woman dead and gone could refer to Lanfear or Morgase also if you're going to consider Moraine a candidate for it.

 

Oh? Caroline Damodred looks like Morgase and Lanfear as well?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Woman dead and gone could refer to Lanfear or Morgase also if you're going to consider Moraine a candidate for it.

 

Oh? Caroline Damodred looks like Morgase and Lanfear as well?

 

 

What does Caroline Damodred have to do with it?

 

I am a little unsure about the quotes wording/where it pops up. I just based the Morgase/Lanfear thing off somebody dead and gone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to add, mat literally juggled the fireworks. Once  in the tenth book while talking with Aludra, and I think he did something similar in the third book while he was with Thom and messing with the fireworks.

 

This makes a certain special kind of sense when you think about Thom juggling fire. The S&F verse has often been discussed as if the adventurers would each represent one of those attributes, but according to Moiraine, there must only be three of them. Perhaps Thom is to be the instrument of all four verses - As a gleeman, he sings and as entertainer he juggles, Mat's fireworks a simple matter. Perhaps the iron the binds is the matchsticks? I could easily envision Thom in the height of his bardic glory, strengthened by courage to stand before the Finns, blinding and dazzling them with song and fireworks, frozen in place by the binding power of the iron. Mat and Noal seize the opportunity to rescue Moiraine from wherever she is imprisoned, with Noal's skills to guide them and Mat's luck to defeat the obstacles in the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“Above Elayne's, a red-hot iron and an axe.”

 

Couldn't this vision of Min's be connected to a "personal secretary" of Lady Sylvase of House Caeren, a Master Lounalt?

 

This same young noble woman who wanted her personal secretary to hold and talk the three defeated High Andoran Houses:

 

Source: Knife of Dreams book - Chapter "Nine Out of Ten" - Elayne pov with Sylvase and many, many others in the scene

 

"If you trust me a little, may I have custody of Arymilla, Naean and Elenia?  In the Royal Palace, of course, or wherever you choose to house me. I believe my new secretary, Master Lounalt, may be able to convince them to throw their support to you."

 

For soem reason, Naean gave a loud cry and would have fallen from her saddle if a Guardsman had not grabbed her arm to support her. Arymilla and Elenia both appeared ready to sick up.

 

One thing in common between Lady Sylvase and Noal Charin, is each asks for trust in a scene, whether Noal to Mat or Sylvase to Elayne.  Both Sylvase and her Master Lounalt, and Noal Charin have implied and/or direct associations will the Shadow's side.

 

Who does Elayne have captured in Caemlyn now? 

 

A Mili Skane among others, who Noal was following in Ebou Dar previously, before attaching himself to Mat.  Mili Skane's master is Moridin, and Noal has be used as a pawn by Moridin previously. Moridin, we know does not trust his own darkfriends at all, so I think it'll logical Moridin would put a type of internal affairs unit into effect (e.g. - Noal watching Mili unknown to Mili). 

 

Is Sylvase and Master Lounalt both tools of Shadow's side?

 

Its a good possibility.

 

Master Lounalt, as a torturer, "a red-hot iron", might be connected to Min's vision of Elayne here.

I'd give him the highest odds of likely for being responsible.

 

Would Lounalt also try to kill Mili and everyone else with knowledge of Moridin and/or the Shadows plans as a cover up? Like Slayer killed Amico, Joiya in the Stone, for being captured & talking?

Trees flowering around Perrin

 

A foretelling of Perrin's coming death?

A grave marker?

 

Mordeth once claimed that all the boys are dead (tEoW).

If it Mordeth was telling the truth (tEoW Ch.19), how will Perrin die? When? By whom? Where?

 

 

Mat already once was killed and bought back to life, by Rand's actions in Caemlyn versus Rahvin.

Rand in foretold to die by the Prophecies, Aiel Dreamwalkers, Nicola Foretelling et la, and live once again by the Aelfinn & Nicola foretelling, Aiel Dreamwalkers.

 

All three ta'averen boys had figures of themselves on a zara board, which I believe is what Moridin's game of sha'rah is play upon:

 

Source: Robert Jordan letter to Ms. Carolyn Fusinato dated April 3, 1995. A Full Copy of this letter is archived at Archive.org here[/i]

 

The piece in the game could be said to still be human - those pieces that came from humans, anyway; there were other sources too == though they are about the size of moderately large chess-pieces. They retain memories, souls, personalities, but they are part of the game now, permanently slaved to the game anad part of it as surely as a cog in a clock is part of the clock. They have no personal volition, though they do have awareness. The only lives they can [can is underlines] live are being used in the game. In the Age of Legends, these games were destroyed when found; the choice for the pieces was to remain part of the game or death, since removing them from the board\ field meant death in any case. the game is all one, board and playing pieces together. And that is much as I will tell you of it. I don't want to give away what I might use later on, after all.

 

 

Rand left blood from a finger upon his own board game figure; Mat losing his eyes in a similar "dream" to Moridin: “My eyes! Oh, Light, my eyes! He took my eyes!” (tEoW Ch.33). But we now know at least Rand's dreams of Moridin in tEoW book, were not a normal dream at all (KoD & tGS). Were Perrin's and Mat's only in the TAR, unlike's Rand's? Or some other combination?

 

 

So why should Min's vision of "Trees flowering around Perrin" mean that he has escaped Mordeth claims he's a dead man?

 

 

Of course, Perrin might or might not help find the Tinker's old lost song (before dying)? Or will someone else help find it instead?  ;)

 

 

Just to add, mat literally juggled the fireworks. Once  in the tenth book while talking with Aludra, and I think he did something similar in the third book while he was with Thom and messing with the fireworks.

 

This makes a certain special kind of sense when you think about Thom juggling fire. The S&F verse has often been discussed as if the adventurers would each represent one of those attributes, but according to Moiraine, there must only be three of them. Perhaps Thom is to be the instrument of all four verses - As a gleeman, he sings and as entertainer he juggles, Mat's fireworks a simple matter. Perhaps the iron the binds is the matchsticks? I could easily envision Thom in the height of his bardic glory, strengthened by courage to stand before the Finns, blinding and dazzling them with song and fireworks, frozen in place by the binding power of the iron. Mat and Noal seize the opportunity to rescue Moiraine from wherever she is imprisoned, with Noal's skills to guide them and Mat's luck to defeat the obstacles in the way.

 

Thom = a bard & magician

Luca = a new kind of showman with a bag full of tricks

 

But where's this leave Mat & his memories during the trip to Ghenjei to find the Eelfinn?

 

 

Who might carry and possession the musical chimes creating set of Metal Balls, which Elayne currently has in Caemlyn?  That item's functional dovetailing almost perfectly, as a defensively tool against the Eelfinn...in makes music chime sounds if only moving slightly. That's great if one's running from the Eelfinn, to dazzle them while the 4-5 individuals can leave the realm. No active focus is necessarily for them to work either, according to Elayne. 

 

 

Thom, I always wondered if he's a former Illuminator himself, and/or a child of a former Illuminator who left the Guild??

 

As for Noal going, possible yet I doubt it...Mat has not accepted his offer, only listened to it.

 

 

the 'dark' around Bashere... too obvious to mean 'darkfriend' i think.. but who knows?

 

The best hints of this vision's possible meaning I've seen so far, is Linda's interpretation of Davram t'Ghaline Bashere name and historically background(Source: www.13depositary.blogspot.com):

 

Davram t'Ghaline Bashere: Saldaean. Davram may be derived from Davaran, a town in Iran or from Avram, the original Hebrew name of the Old Testament patriarch Abraham. Abraham left Ur in Mesopotamia because God called him to found a new nation in Canaan. He obeyed God’s commands, even being prepared to sacrifice his son.

 

Bashere left Saldaea to try to capture Taim. He has consistently furthered the Light’s cause and obeyed Rand’s orders. One of Bashere’s sons died fighting Trollocs and he has also taken other sons to the Blightborder. Ghaline is similar to real world place names. Bashere or Basheer is an Arabic surname. It means "bringer of good news," or "a person who promises good things" in Arabic.

 

Davram Bashere has some parallels with Bashir Shihab II (1767-1850):

 

the Lebanese prince who established hegemony over Lebanon in the first half of the 19th century and ruled it under Ottoman and, later, Egyptian suzerainty from 1788 to 1840.

 

In 1788 the Lebanese emir was forced to abdicate, and the local nobility selected Bashir to fill the post. With the notable exception of the Janbulats, he destroyed the power of the Druze princes, on whose support Lebanese emirs had usually depended.

 

In 1821 Bashir provided military support to the pasha of Acre, who tried to draw the city of Damascus under his authority. But the Ottoman sultan declared the pasha a rebel, and Bashir fled to Egypt. Later, after the pasha was pardoned, Bashir returned to Lebanon, where, in his absence, Janbulat had plotted against him. By having Janbulat killed, Bashir became the undisputed ruler of Lebanon.

 

When Muhammad ‘Ali occupied the Fertile Crescent (exclusive of Iraq) in the 1830s, Bashir cooperated fully with the new regime in establishing order. In 1837 he armed 4,000 Christians to put down a rebellion that the Druzes had begun when threatened with conscription (hitherto Lebanese rulers had avoided direct clashes between the two groups). Two years later Bashir tried to disarm the same Christians whom he had previously armed, clearly as a prelude to their conscription. The Christians were determined to resist, even if it meant cooperating with the Druzes. A Druze and Christian rebellion against Bashir broke out in June 1840, supported by the British, who were intent on driving Muhammad ‘Ali out of the Fertile Crescent. Bashir could not reassert his authority, and in October he was forced into exile in Malta.

 

- Encyclopaedia Britannica

 

Bashere left Saldaea to hunt Taim and made decisions on Queen Tenobia’s behalf of which she disapproves. Bashere has provided military support to Rand and also has armed the Legion of the Dragon, just as Bashir armed Christians. Like the Ottoman sultan, Queen Tenobia is now threatening Bashere in his absence. The pardoning of the pasha may be a parallel to the Borderland rulers being reconciled with Rand.

 

If Tenobia dies, Bashere inherits the Saldaean throne, which may be a parallel with the hostile Janbulat’s death allowing Bashir to rule undisputed. Bashir’s efforts to disarm the Christians he had previously armed and provoking their rebellion may be a hint that Davram Bashere turns against (or is turned against) Rand, as Min thought possible in her viewing. She saw a dark future threatening for Bashere – death or rejection of Rand.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

This makes a certain special kind of sense when you think about Thom juggling fire. The S&F verse has often been discussed as if the adventurers would each represent one of those attributes, but according to Moiraine, there must only be three of them. Perhaps Thom is to be the instrument of all four verses - As a gleeman, he sings and as entertainer he juggles, Mat's fireworks a simple matter. Perhaps the iron the binds is the matchsticks? I could easily envision Thom in the height of his bardic glory, strengthened by courage to stand before the Finns, blinding and dazzling them with song and fireworks, frozen in place by the binding power of the iron. Mat and Noal seize the opportunity to rescue Moiraine from wherever she is imprisoned, with Noal's skills to guide them and Mat's luck to defeat the obstacles in the way.

 

Thom = a bard & magician

Luca = a new kind of showman with a bag full of tricks

 

But where's this leave Mat & his memories during the trip to Ghenjei to find the Eelfinn?

 

I believe that it leaves Mat in the most likely position of all - he who leads. Mat is the one with the memories, tactical and otherwise, and his will be the mind to puzzle out Moiraine's clue. I'm sure there's more to what she said in "Take what you know about Snakes and Foxes".

 

So far, it's offered

1. The key to entering the tower.

2. The tactics to defeat the Finns.

3. A fundamental understanding off the Finnverse. Play by their rules, and you will lose every time.

4. The target is to be found at the center of the circle, not on the outer edges of the hall. where the Finns sit in judgement.

 

An unanswered and important question, I think, is WHY the player is destined to lose the game of Snakes and Foxes all the time. Is it because they don't know all the rules? That seems to be the case, ignorance being what lead Mat to make the bargains he did. We know the Finnverse exists outside the Pattern, and the normal rules of time and space don't apply.

 

$0.02

 

On an irrelevant note, if the Finnverse is outside the Pattern as is the Dark One, perhaps there's a connection?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What Cadsuane teaches  Rand and them other blokes is long division or maybe algebra.

 

The odd thing about Avi's babies would be maybe they aint hers. Maybe Elayne shouldnt of took Mins viewing as meaning she wont die.

 

Perrin and the flowering trees just make me think of things growing. He is the one character that we get to meet the Tinkers through, Aram and Elyas are or were both involved with him and they have links to the tinkers aswell. He is looking for peace and quiet and I think Perrin will have something to do with finding the song and all that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...