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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Saguin Venart

Mazrim Taim: International Man of Mystery

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A character who is shady and his motives are well hidden. He's my favorite character. My crazy theory is that Mazrim is a good guy, Logain is the Bad one.

 

What does everyone else think. Good Guy or Bad Guy?

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Like most of Robert Jordan's characters; they all have the capability of being a Darkfriend, good or bad. That's one of my favorite things about the books you're always guessing and you're never quite sure who's "good" or "bad".

 

Personally, I don't like Mazrim Taim. Don't get me wrong he's a great character, well written and important to the development of the story (especially in respects to the Black Tower) but something about him rubs me the wrong way maybe it is his shady demeanor that does it. I cannot say whether I believe he's "good" or "bad" or neither but I do agree that something with Logain is off.

It wouldn't surprise me if he turned out to be "bad"

 

Sorry for all the " " words. It's very hard for me to say whether any of the characters are good or bad with that literal definition because they're all so...layered. 

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Hmm, could Taim be another Professor Snape, possibly?

 

You never know. We all hated Sevvy and thought he was a bad guy until the end.

 

I did not, I saw him quite early as such obviously rotten apple that it must be something weird with that.

 

Taim however, he is rotten to the core. Most likely so rotten he has been raised to Chosen.

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Taim and Moridin are my favorite bad guys in Wheel of Time. Thing is, I have this hunch that theyre going to turn out to be the same dude, meaning the Taim I think is so kickass will not exist at all.

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Is Taim good or bad? who really knows. One thing for sure is that Logain and Taim have a collision comming up, so they deffinitly aren't on the same side. So if Taim is good and Logain is bad that mens The Light is gonna take a bad blow when Logain gets his glory above all men.

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A character who is shady and his motives are well hidden. He's my favorite character. My crazy theory is that Mazrim is a good guy, Logain is the Bad one.

 

What does everyone else think. Good Guy or Bad Guy?

 

remember the old saying, "let the Lord of Chaos rule"

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A character who is shady and his motives are well hidden. He's my favorite character. My crazy theory is that Mazrim is a good guy, Logain is the Bad one.

 

What does everyone else think. Good Guy or Bad Guy?

 

Because Ordering one of his men to Kill the Dragon Reborn screams Good Guy

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A character who is shady and his motives are well hidden. He's my favorite character. My crazy theory is that Mazrim is a good guy, Logain is the Bad one.

 

What does everyone else think. Good Guy or Bad Guy?

 

Because Ordering one of his men to Kill the Dragon Reborn screams Good Guy

 

Maybe he saw an opportunity to join the Forsaken, which was really more of a "join or die" situation, and he joined to learn a beast from within, and he wrote an invisible book with all the names of the darkfriend Ashaman in it, but because he is actually a good guy he doesnt need to kill himself to tell anyone when the time comes.

 

Bela is the Creator

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There were past threads that talked about these 2 characters.

 

It seems to me that Taim is certainly not Light-sided since he ordered attacks on Rand.

Whether he is a Darkfriend or not, I am not certain since we have not been told his motives nor where he got his information from; also since none of the 13 gave their opinion of him.

Though to me he cannot be a Forsaken since none of the 13 promoted any darkfriend channelers nor asked the Dark One to promote any.

 

Logain to me seems Light-sided since he has not turned against any of the main Light-sided characters.

 

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I think the ultimate Jordan/Sanderson twist would be Taim as a Good guy, like a snape, does bad things but for the greater good. Then Logain becomes a dread lord or new chosen.

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Taim and Moridin are my favorite bad guys in Wheel of Time. Thing is, I have this hunch that theyre going to turn out to be the same dude, meaning the Taim I think is so kickass will not exist at all.

This is where I sit too. Taim being disparaging of sword fighting (for a borderlander?) seems to say that he isn't who he seems, and that the red and black usage strongly suggests Moridin as his alter-ego.

 

Probably been Moridin since his 'escape'.

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Also add that Bashere didnt recognise Taim-which would fit for a mask of mirrors not being absolutely precise-as well as Moridin fitting any descriptive factor that Taim fits, well, the thought doesnt want to go away. And I want it to. Taim and Moridin are both brilliant-I love evil characters and these two are top of the pile easily.

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Also, didn't Lews go absolutely nuts whenever Taim was around? I mean, not nuts (too late for that), but wasn't Taim the one that always had Lews Therin screaming "kill kill kill!"?

 

I wonder if Lews recognizes something about him, or something from the past...?

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If it turns out Taim is in fact Moridin, then I will put Lews Therins ravings down to him recognising Forsaken references. He and Moridin look very alike, show up at similar times, and Taims role is definitely important enough that it would be justified for Ishamael to be doing it.

 

None of this is concrete evidence, I know, which is why Im not fully convinced yet. But next time we see Taim we need to look for Rand mannerisms.

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Also, didn't Lews go absolutely nuts whenever Taim was around? I mean, not nuts (too late for that), but wasn't Taim the one that always had Lews Therin screaming "kill kill kill!"?

Lews Therin wanted all Ashamen dead.

 

I wonder if Lews recognizes something about him, or something from the past...?

I take Lews Therin thought Taim was Demandred; yet Taim being Demandred has been disproven.

 

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Taim is my favourite non-major (I wouldn't call him minor though, eh) character in the series and he's not many steps down from Rand in my "like's-to-read-about" scale.

 

I don't believe he's so cookie cutter bad as everyone seems to think and yes, I think there's a large chance he's "good" in some twisted way.

 

He just seems different these days. I actually like the man. In Lord Of Chaos I was very fond of him and fascinated by him. Remember when Rand was screaming "I AM ALIVE AND YOU ARE DEAD LEWS" or something like that and Taim looked at him with genuine concern?

 

Sorry for getting off track here!

I think people read Taim's character too straight-forward...ely? WOT is definitely not straightforward. For example, the book (ACOS? POD?) where Rand is in Far Madding being chased by those four Asha'man Taim sent to kill him? Most people read that as "Oh, Taim's bad, he's sending people to kill Rand! To KILL RAND! How can he NOT be bad!". My initial reaction-initial, this didn't come from contemplative thought later-was "Oh, Taim must know those Asha'man are DF's and he reckons Rand will take care of them for him". That is, Taim knew those high-ranking Asha'man were DF's and wanted them dead, but had to be sneaky about it (possibly they could kill him? Possibly Taim is a DF but he doesn't truly want to be?), so he sent them to Rand. The whole Far Madding placement sealed it in my mind, Taim held disdain for the sword, never learnt it himself, but knew Rand was an accomplished swordsman. Taim discouraged Asha'man learning the sword I imagine and this most likely included the four DF Asha'man and if not, they certainly wouldn't be as skilled as Rand. So Taim sent them to "kill Rand", knowing that Rand would be able to kill them.

But I really, really digress. There's lots of evidence that points to him being bad, but I don't buy it. Maybe (AFTER Lord of Chaos!? He did seem to change a lot in the following books) Taim got turned by 13 Aes Sedai/13 Fades. He could be the "gun on the mantle"...

 

Anyways, yeah, I agree with you TS, Taim is a fantastic character and I don't quite buy the whole "TAIM IS EVIL!!!!!!11!!1!" thing either.

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Taim ordered the Ashamans to kill Rand in Cairhien and it was close that they didn't kill Rand in that 1st attack that destroyed his personal rooms when Rand had just left them few seconds earlyer. It was Rand who lured them to his trap in Far Madding

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Unlike Verin, Taim ordered an attack on the Dragon that he had no reason to believe would fail.

 

Unlike Snape, Taim doesn't have a Dumbledore vouching for his goodness. I never for a minute doubted that Dumbledore was right and Snape was really good. I've never for a minute doubted that Taim was out for power and would do whatever necessary, make any alliance necessary, in pursuit of more power.

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Moridin hangs out in the Blight doing his Shadow things.  Taim hangs out in the BT with his Asha'man.  It would be hard on their schedules to be the same man, I think.

 

Maybe,*cough*ifit'snotreallyDemandred*cough* he's just a member of Moridin's...servant group.  Like Cyndane and Moggy.  They wear Red 'n' Black because Moridin dresses them, right?  Maybe it's a similar situation.

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The Asha'man attacks on Rand in Far Madding were ACTUALLY sent by Moridin himself. Though, to see whether Moridin could actually be Mazrim Taim or not, just look at the first time Moridin comes into existence versus Taim's first appearance.

 

It would make tons of sense, but I doubt the connection.

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Mazrim Taim seems to be a high level Darkfiend. When the Last Battle comes I beleive Mazrim Taim and his followers will be the new dreadlords that lead the Trolloc legions.

I think that Mazrim Taim will send Darkfiend Ash'a'man to kill Logain. Since Logain leads the other faction and since he is to close to the Dragon Reborn

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I wonder if Lews recognizes something about him, or something from the past...?

 

Like how LTT recognised that Moridin was actually Ishamael when they met, or that Dashiva was actually Aginor?

Oh, wait... ;D

 

You are right about one thing though, LTT did recognise something from his past - a male channeler. You know, like those who went nuts together with LTT, and broke the world.

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