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I just assumed that Seanchan used their own ships to trade with Shara and they might go well with them since the Shara channelers are secluded in their own villages and will usually not get into contact with the Seachan while the Sea Folk channelers are right there, on deck and in the Seachan face when they see them. Also the Sea Folk might warn the West while Shara is very unlikely to do just that.

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So, I am reading through Winter's Heart again, and got to chapter 13: Wonderful News

 

It starts out with Cadsuane listening to one of the Sea Folk, Harine, demanding her Windfinder back (the one Rand found in the Sun Palace after the attack, then Shielded her and tucked her under the bed with her "pillow friend"). Cads is also studying the AS who swore oath to Rand (the ones who were Da'stang, then swore in the Sun Palace, in front of Min, and she had a viewing that they would hold to their oaths "each in their own way"). Cads is trying to reason out why they swore. There is something odd she can't figure out (probably Verin's Compulsion). Anyway, Verin walks in with Sorilea.

 

The door to the hall opened to admit Verin and Sorilea. The leathery, white-haired Aiel woman handed something small to Verin that the Brown tucked into her belt pouch. Verin was wearing a flowered brooch on her simple bronze-colored dress, the first jewelry Cadsuane had ever seen on her aside from her Great Serpent ring.

After Verin's big reveal I have been keeping a close eye on Verin, to see if I can spot any clues, especially after reading Mik's theory on Demandred being behind the attack at Lord Algarin's Manor, and how he believes that the Parisol in the hands of the old messenger is a clue as to who was behind the attack.

 

This reference to the brooch in the quoted passage stands out to me. Why is the brooch significant? It obviously is, else why mention specifically that Verin wears no jewelry besides her ring? Maybe there is something I am not remembering from my last read through, but this seems important. Also in this quote is Sorilea passing a sleeping potion to Verin, and telling her how to use it. I don't think for a moment that Verin will use it on herself, but I can't remember where/when she does use it. Is it related to the broosh, do you suppose?

Edited by Whizbang
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I think she was handed the sleeping potion. Recall later she literally comes within inches of poisoning Cads until she becomes sure of her intentions.

Edited by Suttree
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According to the Guide, people on the continent brought the animals from portal stone worlds during the first millennium after the Breaking.

As far as I recall, only Valan Luca claimed that the s'redits came from Shara.  He tends to make things up and/or exaggerate.  And as far as I recall, neither he nor anyone in his circus gave much info about Shara.

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@Whizbang

The broach is an angreal, and she did use it during the compulsion in TPoD's prologue (and again when she made a gateway for Mat and the Band).  Perhaps a potential confrontation with Cadsuane made her wear it, or she just took to wearing it all the time lately.  But when she was 'questioning' Ailil, she definitely would have needed it if it's the type of questioning we suspect it was, and simply may not have taken it off between that encounter and meeting with Cads.

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Why do the Aiel treat blacksmiths differently?

I've seen the references to say that they can't declare a feud with one, and other hints, but do we know why?

Is there anything in the BWB?

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Why do the Aiel treat blacksmiths differently?

I've seen the references to say that they can't declare a feud with one, and other hints, but do we know why?

Is there anything in the BWB?

its basically all smiths, not just blacksmiths. But its likely because their skills are specialized and absolutely necessary to the survival of the sept

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Why do the Aiel treat blacksmiths differently?

I've seen the references to say that they can't declare a feud with one, and other hints, but do we know why?

Is there anything in the BWB?

its basically all smiths, not just blacksmiths. But its likely because their skills are specialized and absolutely necessary to the survival of the sept

Do you have a reference for all smiths being particularly respected? Or could you explain what makes you think that? Anything specific?

It's just that everything I've looked up so far singles out blacksmiths in particular. But, then again, this is turning out to be quite a difficult concept to search for, so I've probably missed stuff.

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Do we know who the male channeler(s) working for the shadow at the siege of Maradon in ToM were? One of the Forsaken, or are they recruiting new channelers to fight for them?

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The saidin channelers in Towers of Midnight (both chapter 28 and chapters 40-41), I take they worked for one or more Forsaken.

possibilities on where the Forsaken gotten them::

-Aiel channelers that went to the Blight (before the start of the main series)

-captured sparkers & learners from Shara, Seanchan, Madmen Land, main area (any time)

- non-Ashamen channelers/learners that chose (and/or that were persuaded) to join the Shadow

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Also confusing is that in KoD Rand sends Logain to the Black Tower to investigate for him, then sends Neald (or Naeff?) later too, yet Ituralde comments that Rand supplied him with Asha'man shortly earlier, yet after events in KoD.  How did Rand get those AM? 

What you've highlighted here are the confusing timeline issues

Ituralde is promised 100 AM in TGS, aprox 50 days before Maradon. This is well after Logain removed about a half of the BT AM to distribute between Illian and Arad Doman (that was aprox 100 days before Maradon), presumably this is where Ituralde's AM come from.

Naeff wasn't sent to BT till the day after Maradon (the morning before FoM) and we don't know when Logain was sent to BT, except that Rand expected him to be there when he sent Naeff.

There. Clear as mud.

 

edit: I had posted a link to a timeline, but realized it contains spoilers for AMOL pre-release material. Apologies 

Edited by msbee
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Silversmiths get a day off / week to work if they are taken gai'shain. Also see how the shaido treat wetland smiths.

Ah, interesting. Where can I read more? Do tell.  (I hope it's not BWB, as I don't have a copy)

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Has there been much detail explained about Rand's wound from his battle with Ishamael? I'd be curious to know whether or not that wound could save him from his death, or if there is some special properties about it that will have an impact on the end of the story.

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Why were Elayne & Nynaeve upset when Mat said that it didn't feel right to let darkfriends run free? Is it because they thought he was being too critical after what they considered a serious sacrifice in coming to him, or was it because Moghedien had escaped by then and they were aware of it?

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Why were Elayne & Nynaeve upset when Mat said that it didn't feel right to let darkfriends run free? Is it because they thought he was being too critical after what they considered a serious sacrifice in coming to him, or was it because Moghedien had escaped by then and they were aware of it?

It had nothing to do with DF's running free.  It was the fact that he said Birgitte and Aviendha didn't need minders, making it obvious that of the four Nyneave and Elayne were the only ones he thought were unable to take care of themselves.  Mixed in with their sacrifice (that he apparently didn't care whether they apologized or not), and the fact that he made the 'minders' comment with no hint of malice or humor at all, made them even madder at him because he had no idea he was insulting them. 

 

This is a wonderful example of how people 'on the same side' can be so incompatible that they rub each other the wrong way just by being who they are, and how RJ wove their reactions together to create a hilarious scene among completely serious characters that didn't find a single thing about the situation the slightest bit funny.

 

Later, the 'sacrifice' E and N made to apologize to Mat paled in comparison the one he was forced to make as a result of it, one that had it happened to either of them, they'd be murderous (and rightly so!) about but in reality they were completely oblivious to until Mat spilled the beans later.

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I have a question. We know that it was late, late in the series (between TGS and TOM, I think) when the Seanchan discovered Travelling. ... My question is:

 

When did the Forsaken re-discover Travelling in the series?

 

I always found the scene early in TSR (or late in TDR) where Moiraine assures Rand that Sammael could not get to Tear from Illian. I was always like: Huh?? ...Open a gateway, Skim...TRAVEL, lol.

 

Was this an RJ error, a Moiraine error or MY error not understanding when the ability to Travel was revealed in the series and its limitations?

 

 

Fish

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I have a question. We know that it was late, late in the series (between TGS and TOM, I think) when the Seanchan discovered Travelling. ... My question is:

 

When did the Forsaken re-discover Travelling in the series?

 

I always found the scene early in TSR (or late in TDR) where Moiraine assures Rand that Sammael could not get to Tear from Illian. I was always like: Huh?? ...Open a gateway, Skim...TRAVEL, lol.

 

Was this an RJ error, a Moiraine error or MY error not understanding when the ability to Travel was revealed in the series and its limitations?

 

 

Fish

 

 

tSR-3

 

A bad assumption on Mo's part most likely.

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I'm thinking it HAD to be...I did a ''search'' and ''Travel'' is used in that context already earlier in the series, so JORDAN was definitely aware of Travelling at this point...Moiraine had to be the one in the dark on this one.

 

Everybody always loves to point out all the things the AUTHORS are ''wrong'' about...a fun thread would be pointing out all the CHARACTER'S errors.

 

 

Fish

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Everybody always loves to point out all the things the AUTHORS are ''wrong'' about...a fun thread would be pointing out all the CHARACTER'S errors.

Fish, Moiraine knew about Traveling as well. She initially suspected Rand might've done so when he disappeared in TDR.

I don't have my book with me, but I suspect your representation of what Moiraine said isn't accurate. This is when she tells Rand about Bubbles of Evil, right? What exactly did she say?

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It's during the attack of the mysteriously-sent Trollocs in the Stone early in TSR. Rand's first thought is Sammael and Sammael possibly being there. Moiraine says (slight paraphrase - book not present atm):

 

''No, there is no way Sammael could get from Illian to Tear - not even if *he* held Callandor.''

 

Pretty cut and dried, old mate, wouldn't you say?

 

Has to be a ''Moiraine-Error'' lol.

 

 

Fish

Edited by The Fisher King
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Pretty cut and dried, old mate, wouldn't you say?

Ye of little faith. Have I ever steered you wrong?

“I did nothing except survive,” he said in a dry voice. She opened her mouth, but he went on. “Do you think I could channel and not know it? I didn’t do it in my sleep. This happened awake.” He wavered, and caught himself on the sword.

“Even you could not channel anything but Spirit asleep,” Moiraine said coolly, “and this was never done with Spirit. I was about to ask what did happen.”

Perrin felt his hackles rising as Rand told his story. The axe had been bad enough, but at least the axe was something solid, something real. To have your own reflection jump out of mirrors at you... Unconsciously he shifted his feet, trying not to stand on any fragments of glass.

Soon after he began speaking, Rand glanced behind him at the chest, a quick look, as if he did not want it observed. After a moment the slivers of silvered glass that were scattered across the lid of the chest stirred and slid off onto the carpet as though pushed by an unseen broom. Rand exchanged looks with Moiraine, then sat down slowly and went on. Perrin was not sure which of them had cleared the chest top. There was no mention of Berelain in the tale.

“It must have been one of the Forsaken,” Rand finished at last. “Maybe Sammael. You said he’s in Illian. Unless one of them is here in Tear. Could Sammael reach the Stone from Illian?”

“Not even if he held Callandor,” Moiraine told him. “There are limits. Sammael is only a man, not the Dark One.”

This is definitely about the possibility of Sammael creating the 'bubble' from Illian, not about his Traveling to Tear. They do say 'reach', but not as in 'could he come here and do this', because it's clearly contrasted with the possibility that one of them is in Tear.
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