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Reading Leigh butler's blog on re-reading WOT

 

1. In LoC Epilogue, how did Aran'gar knew Marigan was Moghedien?

 

2. In LoC ch54, why doesn't Perrin go to the wolf dreamworld(unable spell 'Tel....d' as of now) to check on Tower Aes Sedai camp he's following as he does this lot in TSR while fighting trollocs in Two Rivers?

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Reading Leigh butler's blog on re-reading WOT

 

1. In LoC Epilogue, how did Aran'gar knew Marigan was Moghedien?

 

Possibly Shaidar Haran, but we're not sure.

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unanswered questions::

Rand tells Tuon that the main continent survived without the Seanchan's leashes for centuries.

Tuon begins "And you have--" then Rand interrupts her.

What was she going to say?

 

 

When meeting with Perrin & Faile, Elayne tells that Andor owes the Dragon Reborn a debt.

A debt for his removing of Rahvin or for something else? If for something else, exactly what?

The debt is most likely for his removal of Rahvin, possibly for keeping order in her absence. Tuan was probably going to make some comment on how fragmented and weak the continent is compared to Seanchan.

is it ever stated wich age Rand is in ToM

Dont forget they lost 6 months with the portal stone. But really, what does that matter when he is over 3000 years old :)

Edited by Knivy
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Regarding ages, the 3 ta'veren are in their 23rd year; so is Aviendha. Nynaeve is 27; and Egwene and Elayne have their 21st birthdays coming up. Is that right or wrong?

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Reading Leigh butler's blog on re-reading WOT

 

1. In LoC Epilogue, how did Aran'gar knew Marigan was Moghedien?

 

Possibly just physical resemblence? Or the GLoD's ability to find his Chosen (Graendal's PoV in ToM makes it clear that He can).

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I already provided the RJ quote, and my reasoning when Terez objected to my conclusion.

Okay, so there are three issues here. The first, that I missed your reply on that point (or I'd have replied sooner). The second, that you haven't really -- you just said why you believe RJ's words fit better with his not acting under orders (which is hardly justification to start referring to it as a given fact). And the third, that I completely disagree. RJ said he was paranoid to explain why he had eyes on Rand and everyone else, which is to say, how he'd known to go looking for Rand, and in what general direction. This says little of why he'd be interested in locating and saving Rand.

Now, obviously, it does contradicts the theory that Taim was is the know regarding the whole scheme from the get-go. But just as obvious is the fact that Taim has thrown his lot in with the Shadow, and so that he would act of his own volition in a situation as sensitive as this one is beyond unlikely. It's also telling that he wasn't reprimanded in any way, shape or form we could detect (and when the Shadow punishes someone, we can usually tell just by seeing them through another's perspective).

On the other hand, if he was acting under orders to locate and rescue Rand, the line about him being paranoid makes no sense. It wasn't paranoia that led to him finding Rand, it was just looking. Paranoia gives him a reason to look. A reason that makes no sense if his reason for looking is he was under orders to get Rand out. Taim went to Rand in the first place because of the promise of safety Rand offered. Therefore it makes sense for him to want to protect that promise of safety, unless he has orders from the Shadow to the contrary. There is no need for the Shdow to reprimand Taim if his actions end up serving the Shadow's ends. So, given that Taim has reason enough to want to protect Rand even if the Shadow didn't explicitly order him to, and his stated reason to go looking for Rand makes no sense if he was ordered to go looking, then what conclusions can we draw? That Taim rescued Rand of his own volition, not on orders from on high.

 

 

is it ever stated wich age Rand is in ToM

Dont forget they lost 6 months with the portal stone. But really, what does that matter when he is over 3000 years old :)
Rand is not 3,000 years old. He is in his early twenties (born in 978, it's now 1000). And they lost four months, not six.
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At the end of ToM, LTT and Rand have merged, making him the same age as the Forsaken.

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It wasn't paranoia that led to him finding Rand, it was just looking.

Well, as I've already said:

RJ said he was paranoid to explain why he had eyes on Rand and everyone else, which is to say, how he'd known to go looking for Rand, and in what general direction. This says little of why he'd be interested in locating and saving Rand.

His paranoia isn't the reason he went after Rand; it's the reason he learned of the need to do so. And obviously Mesaana has given up on having Rand brought to her (or someone else decided that wasn't the best recourse), otherwise it would not have been considered a victory to the Shadow to have Rand freed, and Taim would've been punished. So really, I don't think you have a solid ground to stand on here.

Also, I very much doubt that Taim's going to Rand in the first place was only to do with his needing sanctuary. Regardless, having Rand in AS custody does nothing to affect Taim's position as head of an organization of male chanelers, numbering close to the AS and growing each passing day. He was safe enough, no matter where Rand is. And his associations only help in that regard (unless, of course, he does something to derail the FS's plans, that is).

 

EDIT:

Oh, another question. Why didn't Liandrin defer to Moiraine in TGH? And why didn't anyone comment on her failure to do so? Is this just another early-bookism (such as Moiraine thinking that she'd never considered using the Power against another sister until Verin stumbled on Siuan's and her plans)?

Edited by yoniy0
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Regarding ages, the 3 ta'veren are in their 23rd year; so is Aviendha. Nynaeve is 27; and Egwene and Elayne have their 21st birthdays coming up. Is that right or wrong?

 

Rand, Perrin and Mat were all born within weeks of each other late in 978NE, it is currently early July 1000NE, they are due to turn 22 later this year.

Nynaeve is 5 years older, 27, born in 973NE.

Egwene is 3 years younger, 19, born in 981NE.

Elayne is either 2 or 3 years younger, 19 or 20. I forget whether she is the same age as Egwene or Avi. I lean towards Egwene's age.

Aviendha is 2 years younger, 20, born in 980NE.

Gawyn is the about the same age as Rand.

Galad is around 28-30, born sometime between Tigraine's marriage to Taringail in 970NE and her disappearance in 972NE.

Edited by Finnssss
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Thanks, Finnssss, for the heroes ages.

 

A technical question.....

 

I am reading TEotW on my Kindle Fire. I had written notes, dozens of them, over the first third of the book. But when I opened the book to read today, it opened to the first page. I closed the book and reopened it .... and was shocked to see that my notes just disappeared. Is there anyway I can get those back?

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Egwene being 19/20 and the Amyrlin Seat is...absurd?...crazy.

 

That's WoT's theme. Rand is the Creator's avatar walking on earth and he's 22. The other ta'veren are also 22. Elayne is the Queen of two kingdoms at 20. Fortuona is an Empress at 20; etc......

 

Egwene is the leader of a select club of a couple of thousand females; whereas the others have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of subjects.

Edited by Theodril
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It wasn't paranoia that led to him finding Rand, it was just looking.

Well, as I've already said:

RJ said he was paranoid to explain why he had eyes on Rand and everyone else, which is to say, how he'd known to go looking for Rand, and in what general direction. This says little of why he'd be interested in locating and saving Rand.

His paranoia isn't the reason he went after Rand; it's the reason he learned of the need to do so. And obviously Mesaana has given up on having Rand brought to her (or someone else decided that wasn't the best recourse), otherwise it would not have been considered a victory to the Shadow to have Rand freed, and Taim would've been punished. So really, I don't think you have a solid ground to stand on here.

Also, I very much doubt that Taim's going to Rand in the first place was only to do with his needing sanctuary. Regardless, having Rand in AS custody does nothing to affect Taim's position as head of an organization of male chanelers, numbering close to the AS and growing each passing day. He was safe enough, no matter where Rand is. And his associations only help in that regard (unless, of course, he does something to derail the FS's plans, that is).

 

EDIT:

Oh, another question. Why didn't Liandrin defer to Moiraine in TGH? And why didn't anyone comment on her failure to do so? Is this just another early-bookism (such as Moiraine thinking that she'd never considered using the Power against another sister until Verin stumbled on Siuan's and her plans)?

 

1. I agree with Yoniy0, paranoia doesn't explain it. Well, it explains that was a major emotion involved, but it doesn't explain why. Having Demandred, Shaidar Haran or the DO himself ordering you to locate and keep Rand alive (like Osangar in aCoS) and he has just been captured would make anyone paranoid. I don't care much to go into the whole debate itself, as it is the simple answers thread, and I don't really mind, however, paranoia = reason, end of story is not valid. It could well be that Taim is just crazy an paranoid for no reason, but there is nothing to say conclusively either way. RJ only said he was paranoid, not that he had no reason to be.

 

2. I'm not sure exactly, but weren't they in private, and no decision was actually being made, IIRC, AS can disagree and argue with each other in private and all that. Also, Liandrin and Moiraine aren't really like other Aes Sedai. Or it was simply not worth bothering to bring up, some unspoken guideline like so many other things they have. Other than that, probably just an early book-ism.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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Do we currently know where Ragan is/whose party he is with? As of ToM.

I'm fairly certain he's in the Tower doing stuff for Bryne, but I can't find the quote (from an interview, not the books) for some reason.

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When elayne, nyneave and aviendha leaves aviendha reveals she has the talent to see residue of weaves- a very rare talent

 

"This leaves no

residue," she said patiently. Too patiently. "The residues of a weave this large might be read two days from

now,"

Merilille snorted, a very strong sound to come from that slight body. "That is a rare Talent, girl. Neither

Teslyn nor Joline has it. Or do you Aiel wilders all learn that as well?"

"Few can do it," Aviendha admitted calmly. "But I can."

 

but in the fight against sammael rand follows him to shadar logoth by the residue of his gateway

 

 

"It was another hallway, lined with wall hangings showing ships at sea. At the far end, the last crimson

sliver of the sun shone through a colonnaded walk. The residue of Sammael's gateway hung in the air, the

dissipating flows like faintly glowing ghosts. Not so faint Rand could not make them out, though"

 

and during the siege on the WT the rebelling army encounters riders which egwene claims are aided by AS because there are residues of weaving (COT chapter 16)

 

and if i'm not mistaken one of the kins investigated the body of the kins woman that was murdered by the BA in ebou dar and she said there was residue of saidar which proves the woman was killed by the OP, and the same happened during the investigation of the AS who were murdered by Halima.

 

 

so is this a mere inconsistency or is there another explanation? is it rare among women but not among men or maybe rand just has this Talent and he doesn't know its rare (although its seems sammael depended on the assumption that rand could see the residue of his gateway and follow him)?

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Rand has a lot of Talents, but it could simply be that male and female traveling leave differing trails. Then again, Sammael knew LTT in the war of the shadow, and the forsaken work off the assumption that Rand is LTT so if he knew he could read residues then, he would assume he could now.

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When elayne, nyneave and aviendha leaves aviendha reveals she has the talent to see residue of weaves- a very rare talent

 

"This leaves no

residue," she said patiently. Too patiently. "The residues of a weave this large might be read two days from

now,"

Merilille snorted, a very strong sound to come from that slight body. "That is a rare Talent, girl. Neither

Teslyn nor Joline has it. Or do you Aiel wilders all learn that as well?"

"Few can do it," Aviendha admitted calmly. "But I can."

 

but in the fight against sammael rand follows him to shadar logoth by the residue of his gateway

 

 

"It was another hallway, lined with wall hangings showing ships at sea. At the far end, the last crimson

sliver of the sun shone through a colonnaded walk. The residue of Sammael's gateway hung in the air, the

dissipating flows like faintly glowing ghosts. Not so faint Rand could not make them out, though"

 

and during the siege on the WT the rebelling army encounters riders which egwene claims are aided by AS because there are residues of weaving (COT chapter 16)

 

and if i'm not mistaken one of the kins investigated the body of the kins woman that was murdered by the BA in ebou dar and she said there was residue of saidar which proves the woman was killed by the OP, and the same happened during the investigation of the AS who were murdered by Halima.

 

 

so is this a mere inconsistency or is there another explanation? is it rare among women but not among men or maybe rand just has this Talent and he doesn't know its rare (although its seems sammael depended on the assumption that rand could see the residue of his gateway and follow him)?

 

There are weaves for detecting the presence of residue. There are many instances of dead bodies being delved for this. For example, the damane, who delved the men that were killed by Aludra's sling grenades, determined they were not killed by Saidar.

Remember, there are also weaves to detect Saidin residue as well, as exampled in CoT 19 by Nisain about Shadar Logoth, CoT 20 with Nisao in the deaths of Anaiya and Setagana, and in CoT 30 again with Nisao reporting on the death of Kairen Stang.

 

Actually seeing and reading residues is something entirely different.

Edited by Finnssss
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At the end of ToM, LTT and Rand have merged, making him the same age as the Forsaken.

Well, at the end of ToM all of his past lives merged making him infinately old, but physically he is twenty twoish.

These are both wrong. Rand is not the same age as the Chosen. he might have memories going back hundreds of years, but there are only twenty two years between his birth and where he is now - that makes him about twenty two. Having past life memories does not make you older. And Rand has forgotten everything before LTT anyway, so claims of infinite age are even more absurd. Rand's soul is ancient. Rand himself is a specific incarnation of that soul, and is not ancient. He was born at the end of the Aiel War. He's in his twenties.

 

It wasn't paranoia that led to him finding Rand, it was just looking.

Well, as I've already said:

RJ said he was paranoid to explain why he had eyes on Rand and everyone else, which is to say, how he'd known to go looking for Rand, and in what general direction. This says little of why he'd be interested in locating and saving Rand.

His paranoia isn't the reason he went after Rand; it's the reason he learned of the need to do so. And obviously Mesaana has given up on having Rand brought to her (or someone else decided that wasn't the best recourse), otherwise it would not have been considered a victory to the Shadow to have Rand freed, and Taim would've been punished. So really, I don't think you have a solid ground to stand on here.

Also, I very much doubt that Taim's going to Rand in the first place was only to do with his needing sanctuary. Regardless, having Rand in AS custody does nothing to affect Taim's position as head of an organization of male chanelers, numbering close to the AS and growing each passing day. He was safe enough, no matter where Rand is. And his associations only help in that regard (unless, of course, he does something to derail the FS's plans, that is).

Taim is head of an organisation create by the Dragon. He owes his position to Rand - Rand falling into the hands of the AS is not something that works to his benefit. True, getting rid of the Asha'man would be tough, but if the AS convinced Rand to publically denounce them, then life becomes that much harder for him, in terms of recruitment and political survival. Rand being free works to his benefit. So we have good reason to believe Taim would want to protect Rand's liberty, unless he had contradictory orders from his superiors, or Rand threatened to undermine Taim himself. Frankly, I don't think any notion that Taim was acting under orders from the Shadow has any leg to stand on. If he was acting under orders, paranoia doesn't enter into it. If he's not acting under orders, then why did he do it? Do you have a valid explanation other than his own volition?

 

Is Shaidar Haran the DO's consciousness incarnate? Or a separate entity/consciousness? Do we even know?

According to RJ he is "the Dark One in shadowy form."

 

1. I agree with Yoniy0, paranoia doesn't explain it. Well, it explains that was a major emotion involved, but it doesn't explain why. Having Demandred, Shaidar Haran or the DO himself ordering you to locate and keep Rand alive (like Osangar in aCoS) and he has just been captured would make anyone paranoid.

No it wouldn't. Being ordered to rescue Rand by such figures would make him eager to rescue Rand, but it in no way explains paranoia. Simply put, there is nothing to indicate that Taim was acting under orders, and evidence to indicate he was acting according to his own paranoia - no matter how justified that paranoia was. Acting on his own is exactly what I said.
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But it's not what we're saying. You disagree. That's okay, but it doesn't justify repeating the same argument as if nothing contradictory has been said. Again: the paranoia enters where it made him aware of Rand's disappearance, and where to look for him. That's it; it doesn't enter into his motive for rescuing Rand, as you suggest RJ said (or so we propose).

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But it's not what we're saying. You disagree. That's okay, but it doesn't justify repeating the same argument as if nothing contradictory has been said. Again: the paranoia enters where it made him aware of Rand's disappearance, and where to look for him. That's it; it doesn't enter into his motive for rescuing Rand, as you suggest RJ said (or so we propose).

Then what is his motive for resucing Rand? That's precisely my point, it being orders from above makes no sense, you yourself have admitted as much. Paranoia, not orders, made him aware. Paranoia, not orders, told him where to look. And if he isn't doing it because someone else told him to, then he is doing it of his own volition. You haven't said anything contradictory to my point, yoniy0. You haven't truly addressed my point at all.
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At the end of ToM, LTT and Rand have merged, making him the same age as the Forsaken.

Well, at the end of ToM all of his past lives merged making him infinately old, but physically he is twenty twoish.

These are both wrong. Rand is not the same age as the Chosen. he might have memories going back hundreds of years, but there are only twenty two years between his birth and where he is now - that makes him about twenty two. Having past life memories does not make you older. And Rand has forgotten everything before LTT anyway, so claims of infinite age are even more absurd. Rand's soul is ancient. Rand himself is a specific incarnation of that soul, and is not ancient. He was born at the end of the Aiel War. He's in his twenties.

Well, he is close to the age Moridin is then, if you are only talking about the age of the body they inhabit. Cyndane and the gar's while they were alive too were said to be in their twenties. So he is the same age as 2 of the 5 (I think) still left alive by your reckoning.

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