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Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

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Why is the Great Hunt for the Horn called in Illian? What is the connection (if any)?

 

I think as far as the books go it just is, and 'always' has been. As far as Randlanders remember anyway.

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So can someone draw up a little list of Who's Who for the Forsaken. Who got bitch slapped out of the pattern with Balefire? And who got transmigrated and who they are now? Such as.....

 

Sammie- Balefired when Rand and Moridin crossed the streams Where the Shadow Waits.

Be'lal- Killed by the eye of the world by.. You see its been to long was it green man or Rand?

etc.

etc.

etc.

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Hi you Dragonmount Guru's!

nice thread this, so i'll ask away. (My second post, although i've read lots on these forums)

First question that comes to my mind is this: How did the Dark One get Lanfear of the 'Land of the Finns'?

Sure, he is the Lord of the Grave, but we kinda know Moraine isn't dead, so i think it is safe to assume Lanfear/Cyndane wasn't killed by the ter'angreal either. Does he have some power in 'Finnland'?

Anyone can shed some Light here? (I am aware i made some assumptions here: Moraine=alive and Lanfear=Cyndane, but they seem pretty safe)

 

Thanks,

Tom

 

Tom-

 

I've often wondered this, myself. My own theory on it is that Moiraine (who we all know is an evil genius when it comes to cleverly out-manipulating others) actually used the Finn's game of wishes and such to kill Lanfear. It's also possible that Lanfear tried to channel too much and that/the Finns killed her for it. Remember- no channeling in Finnland.

You hit the nail on the head there in my opinion. Moiraine is the epitomy of AS manipulation. Not other AS seems as adept st pulling the strings of others as shr is. As regards Lanfear, you're no doubt right here as well. She would certainly be arrogant enought to attempt to channel a lot of the power in Finnland. She never seems to have had any understanding of boundaries or limitations.

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So can someone draw up a little list of Who's Who for the Forsaken. Who got bitch slapped out of the pattern with Balefire? And who got transmigrated and who they are now? Such as.....

 

Sammie- Balefired when Rand and Moridin crossed the streams Where the Shadow Waits.

Be'lal- Killed by the eye of the world by.. You see its been to long was it green man or Rand?

etc.

etc.

etc.

 

-Aginor drew too much power at the Eye and killed himself. Came back as Osangar, stayed close to Rand as Dashiva, tried and failed to kill him in PoD, and finally was killed by Elza during the Cleansing in WH. Probably gone for good.

 

-Balthamel was killed by the Green Man at the Eye. Came back as Arangar, stayed close to Egwene as Halima, forced to flee by Narishma, and finally balefired by Rand at Natrim's Burrow. Gone for good.

 

-Bel'al set himself up as High Lord Samon in Tear, and was balefired by Moiraine after a swordfight with Rand from whom he wanted to steal Callandor. Gone for good.

 

-Ishamael tried to turn Rand to the dark in the first three books, he fought him three times at the end of each book finally being killed at the end of tDR. Came back as Moridin, and was named Naeblis by the Dark One. Alive

 

-Moghedien sets herself up in Tarabon as a servant, and eventually comes into conflict with Nyneave and Elayne. Defeated a first time by Nyneave, but escapes, defeated a second time in TAR by Nyneave with Birgitte's help. Captured in Salidar having followed Nyneave and Elayne there. Gives up many weaves to Elayne, Nyneave, and later Egwene. Freed by Arangar, tortured by Shaidar Haran, and is now mindtrapped by Moridin. Tried and failed to balefire Nyneave in aCoS. Alive

 

-Asmodean worked with Lanfear who planned for him to teach Rand, he finally gave up on that and tried to take the Choedan Kal but failed and was captured by Rand and became his teacher. Went to Caemlyn with Rand where he was killed by Rahvin, before being brought back thanks to balefire, and was finally killed by Greadal. Almost certainly gone for good.

 

-Lanfear tried to get Rand to join her from book 2 to book 5, forced Asmodean to become Rand's teacher, went into a rage after hearing that Rand slept with Aviendha, and was tackled through the terangreal gateway into the finn's world. Seemed to die there, though details are unclear, came back as Cyndane who is slighly weaker than Lanfear, and is now mindtrapped by Moridin. Alive

 

-Rahvin set himself up in Andor as Lord Gaebril, and effectively took control of Andor by using compulsion on Morgase. Declared himself King after Morgase escaped, attacked by Rand, fought him in TAR, and finally balefired by Rand with Nyneave's help. Gone for good.

 

-Sammael sets himself up in Illian as Lord Brend. Forces Moiraine, Lan, Perrin, Faile, and Loial to flee. Attacks Rand during the Battle of Cairhien, later causes the dispersion of the Shaido, tries to negotiate a truce with Rand, stops Rand's army in eastern Illian, attacked by Rand in the city of Illian, retreats to Shaidar Logoth where he nearly kills Rand, who is saved by Moridin. Finally killed by mashadar right before Rand was going to balefire him. Gone for good.

 

-Semirhage sets herself up as Tuon's truthspeaker, Anath. She murders the Empress along with the entire royal family except for Tuon. Orders Suroth to have Tuon killed. Tries to capture Rand but is captured herself. Questioned by Cadsuane's Aes Sedai in Arad Doman, and finally broken by Cadsuane in a most bizarre manner. Freed by Shaidar Haran, collars Rand with the domination band, tortures him and forces him to torture Min, and then tries to force him to kill her. Finally balefired by Rand when he breaks free of the domination band thanks to the True Power from the Dark One. Gone for good.

 

-Graendal set herself up as Lady Basene in Arad Doman. She works with Sammael for a while until he falls to Rand, she is ordered by Moridin to bring pain to Rand, when Rand discovers her location in Arad Doman thanks to Nyneave, she has Arangar and Delana use compulsion on Ramshalan who was sent by Rand as part of his scheme to make sure she is dead, she very nearly escapes the balefiring but makes sure that Arangar and Delana do not making Rand think she is dead. She is then ordered by Moridin to kill Perrin which she tries and fails to do, and is indirectly partially responsible in Mesaana's defeat. Captured by Shaidar Haran before she can escape through a portal stone into an alternate world. Alive

 

-Mesaana set herself up in the White Tower as Danelle, an obscure Aes Sedai of the brown Ajah. She is partially responsible for Siuan's downfall, and has Alviarin manipulate Elaida, she causes rifts to form between the Ajahs and tries to capture Rand but ultimately fails thanks to Perrin's rescue party and the Ashaman. Fails to show up at the Cleansing and is punished for it by Shaidar Haran. Initiates a battle with Egwene and her allies in TAR and finally has her mind broken in a contest of willpower with Egwene. Probably gone for good, but could presumably be brought back by the Dark One if she is killed.

 

-Demandred: Unknown (numerous theories, see other threads). Alive

Edited by Master Ablar

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He smelt the Blight/ corruption near his Camp on the Jehannah Road and he intuitively guessed that some sort of trap had been put together. More interesting, how did Graendal know that Perrin would come back to resuce the Whitecloaks, as I've asked before?

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I don't think Graendal planned on that, Perrin got away because Slayer failed to protect the Dreamspike, so she wanted to do atleast some sort of damage with her trolloc army, and send them after Galad. Perrin showing up wasn't in her plans, and that's what spoiled it even further.

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Asmodean worked with Lanfear who planned for him to teach Rand, he finally gave up on that and tried to take the Choedan Kal but failed and was captured by Rand and became his teacher. Went to Caemlyn with Rand where he was killed by Rahvin, before being brought back thanks to balefire, and was finally killed by Greadal. Almost certainly gone for good.

 

Greandal did that? When did this get revealed?

 

I never understood why, when the Dark One was upset about losing the chosen there was zero interest in bringing Asmodean back.

 

Sammael sets himself up in Illian as Lord Brend. Forces Moiraine, Lan, Perrin, Faile, and Loial to flee. Attacks Rand during the Battle of Cairhien, later causes the dispersion of the Shaido, tries to negotiate a truce with Rand, stops Rand's army in eastern Illian, attacked by Rand in the city of Illian, retreats to Shaidar Logoth where he nearly kills Rand, who is saved by Moridin. Finally killed by mashadar right before Rand was going to balefire him. Gone for good.

 

I don't understand why but I tend to agree with you. Why the Dark One can't bring back someone killed by Mashadar?

 

 

Mesaana set herself up in the White Tower as Danelle, an obscure Aes Sedai of the brown Ajah. She is partially responsible for Siuan's downfall, and has Alviarin manipulate Elaida, she causes rifts to form between the Ajahs and tries to capture Rand but ultimately fails thanks to Perrin's rescue party and the Ashaman. Fails to show up at the Cleansing and is punished for it by Shaidar Haran. Initiates a battle with Egwene and her allies in TAR and finally has her mind broken in a contest of willpower with Egwene. Probably gone for good, but could presumably be brought back by the Dark One if she is killed.

 

Yes, they should balefire her broken body.

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Greandal did that? When did this get revealed?

 

I never understood why, when the Dark One was upset about losing the chosen there was zero interest in bringing Asmodean back.

 

It was hinted at my Moridin in aMoL, then nearly said straight out by Shaidar Haran, and finally it was stated in the glossary.

 

I can think of two reasons why he wasn't brought back. He might have been balefired, and he betrayed the Shadow. He threw his lot in with Rand, because he knew the other Forsaken would think he had betrayed them.

 

I don't understand why but I tend to agree with you. Why the Dark One can't bring back someone killed by Mashadar?

 

They wouldn't be the same. They would be completely messed up because of Mashadar. Besides considering Moridin helped Rand kill Sammael, the Shadow might have wanted him dead anyway.

 

Yes, they should balefire her broken body.

 

They should, except that they don't know the Dark One can bring people who haven't been balefired back to life. They have no reason to balefire her, it's a forbidden weave. Only Rand and Min, and perhaps others with them if they've been told, would know that she needs to be balefired. And it isn't clear how Rand feels about using balefire. It wouldn't take much balefire to ensure Mesaana stays dead, but I wonder if he would be willing to use even that.

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I don't think Graendal planned on that, Perrin got away because Slayer failed to protect the Dreamspike, so she wanted to do atleast some sort of damage with her trolloc army, and send them after Galad. Perrin showing up wasn't in her plans, and that's what spoiled it even further.

Her PoV when she orders Slayer to attack the Whitecloaks anyway makes it very clear that she was hoping Perrin would get knocked off by Byar during the chaos of a battle. She knew he had escaped and there is no reason offered in the text for her to believe he would be present.

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Any references in the book to helmets, armour or shields Perrin uses? He spends most of each battle fighting, it makes sense he'd use gear.

So far as I can remember his defensive gear, if any, is never mentioned.

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Any references in the book to helmets, armour or shields Perrin uses? He spends most of each battle fighting, it makes sense he'd use gear.

 

The strongest kind - plot armour.

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I'm sure this has been asked, but when Rand balefired Semirhage, why didn't her recent actions become undone? I'm sure Rand balefired her rather strongly.

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I think the defensive gear he uses is killing the other guy first

 

Seems to be pretty damn effective.

 

How far into the book did each of the forsaken get released?

Some are pretty obvious but others could be pretty far into the story. Demandred for example. Or Moghedin.

 

Demandred and Moghedien are probably both out in tDR, but at the very latest in tSR. Three seals are broken at the end of tGH, which probably let out any Forsaken still trapped at that point.

 

I'm sure this has been asked, but when Rand balefired Semirhage, why didn't her recent actions become undone? I'm sure Rand balefired her rather strongly.

 

There wasn't really anything to undo, and he can't have taken that much time off. Maybe 10 minutes maximum.

 

Would dreamspike also prevent Deathgates?

 

Yes, they're still gateways.

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Lews Traveled. Elan shimmered and coalesced.

Was this because he was already (loosely) bound to the outer patching of the Bore?

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Best guess, whats the approximate population of Randland? The Aiel Waste? Seanchan?
Randland I guess means south of blight, north of Storms Sea, west of dragonwall, east of Aryth Ocean. Probably thousdands of people.

Waste, most of the Aiel seemed to cross dragonwall with Rand or Shaido. probably tens of people still there.

Seanchan continent, many of them seemed to cross the ocean. probably hundreds of people still there.

 

I'm sure this has been asked, but when Rand balefired Semirhage, why didn't her recent actions become undone? I'm sure Rand balefired her rather strongly.
I recall somewhere telling that Rand could do 30 minutes unaided. If Rand's balefire on her undid any actions, those actions probably were off screen.

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