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To clarify though, that doesn't mean that he used one shield on two people, right? He used two different shields, but it just means that he was able to divide the flows, which is difficult, and more difficult when the weave is more complex. Egwene can divide her flows 14 ways (do 14 different things with the Power at the same time), which is exceptional, and she comments that Rand can do much, much more than that.

Edited by Rose

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Well, she was responsible for his death, though we don't know exactly how. Recall that she was also 'responsible' for Aran'gar's death, though it was actually Rand who killed him/her when he BF'd Grae's stronghold.

(See ToM Glossary: Graendal)

 

TY to Rose.

Edited by FarShainMael

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No, he doesn't know how. And the relevant quote is in the database, Asmodean category. (It's from Paris.)

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Sure, FSM, though by now you should know Terez likes to point folks to her signature rather than go look on her own:

Towers of Midnight book tour 16 November 2010 WH Smith, Paris, France - Jonathan B. reporting

I also asked about how Asmodean was killed now that we know Graendal was responsible for his death. Brandon said that when he arrived at Harriet's and asked to see the ending and got the pile of Robert Jordan's notes including the ending, on top of that pile was a message from a fan in the form of a dialogue between a Sherlock Holmes character and a Watson character with a note from RJ saying 'this is right'. Emily asked if it was from Matt Hatch and Brandon didn't think it was [it was certainly not Matt; he never thought it was Graendal. It seems likely that RJ has kept that message from the fan since he first announced that a fan had figured it out in 2003, but we don't know that for sure.Could it be this one? The timing is about right - Terez]. He said that he can probably send me that message so we know exactly what RJ said 'this is right' to.

 

This is apparently all of the information that is available from RJ himself about the actual method of Asmodean's murder. In Brandon's vision of the story, he imagines Graendal killed Asmodean (did the deed herself) with balefire, but apparently this is not in the notes. So its possible that it could have been done by another kind of weave and we are free to speculate on that.

So, Brandon's insistence from a later Q&A that the identity of the actual perpetrator was left unknown on purpose seems unfounded, to me. Brandon (and indeed, Harriet) has nothing to go on but RJ's note saying the Sherlock Holmes version "is right". To me, that means it's right about Graendal's having been to the palace, and meeting Asmodean in person. Actually, back when I read it the first time, I felt it must be that fan theory RJ was fond of saying was right (his excuse for why he didn't have to say it out front, for a few years).

Edited by yoniy0
Ouch, Terez got there first

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I thought that was the one she meant, but like you, I find it unsatisfactory, and I wondered if - Terez - you had anything more definite. Certainly that (very good) SH-W dialogue identifies Graendal as at least involved in Asmo's death, which is all that that Glossary tells us.

 

RAFO, I suppose. And quite possibly, not even then, of course..

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So, Brandon's insistence from a later Q&A that the identity of the actual perpetrator was left unknown on purpose seems unfounded, to me. Brandon (and indeed, Harriet) has nothing to go on but RJ's note saying the Sherlock Holmes version "is right". To me, that means it's right about Graendal's having been to the palace, and meeting Asmodean in person. Actually, back when I read it the first time, I felt it must be that fan theory RJ was fond of saying was right (his excuse for why he didn't have to say it out front, for a few years).

Actually, I haven't updated the footnote, but Maria told me she fond the Sherlock Holmes thing and gave it to Brandon along with the notes. Apparently RJ told her who the killer was, and she took it from there. RJ knew of the Slayer theory, etc., and he would have said if Graendal had gotten someone else to do it, so we can be sure she did it personally. (Well, those of us with any amount of sense can be sure.)

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Well, if Asmodean's saga has shown us anything, it's that reasonable people can (an in fact, frequently do) disagree.

 

However, just so my position is clearly stated in here: I stand by the theory that Graendal was in the Caemlyn palace following her discovery of Rand's altered plans, met with Asmodean when he went snooping around, and took him out of the equation herself. And my personal feeling is that she did it with BF, RJ's comments about it be damned.

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Well, if Asmodean's saga has shown us anything, it's that reasonable people can (an in fact, frequently do) disagree.

What it showed us is that people get fixated on some really strange things. I never got into the Asmodean debate, being in the apathy faction, but toward the end there it amused me to argue for Aviendha, just for argument's sake.

 

However, just so my position is clearly stated in here: I stand by the theory that Graendal was in the Caemlyn palace following her discovery of Rand's altered plans, met with Asmodean when he went snooping around, and took him out of the equation herself. And my personal feeling is that she did it with BF, RJ's comments about it be damned.

Balefire fits with RJ's comments. In fact, it's the only thing that fits really. Small amount of balefire combined with distance from Shayol Ghul. Ishamael was further away when he died, but he wasn't balefired. Be'lal was, and despite Moiraine's comments about 'a few seconds', not incredibly weakly (we saw tiny balefire from rand in Caemlyn). Graendal presumably used balefire because it doesn't require too much of the Power, and because she thinks of things like Breaking-era ter'angreal (which is why the prologue of TOM rankled so much), and presumably she used the smallest amount possible to escape detection. Even a tiny bit of balefire kills. She could even argue to the Dark One that she was trying to leave open the opportunity for transmigration....but he could probably only transmigrate a balefired person if they were killed with a minimal amount near Shayol Ghul, where his power is strongest.

 

This is one of the few Asmodean arguments I ever bothered with; I found it much more interesting than the debate over who killed him. Conveniently, it worked with Aviendha. :wink: (I had various arguments for how she might have known the weave, and how she knew who Asmodean was, etc.)

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What it showed us is that people get fixated on some really strange things.

That, too :tongue:

My point still stands, though. Disagreement isn't an indication of slow-wittedness.

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What it showed us is that people get fixated on some really strange things.

That, too :tongue:

My point still stands, though. Disagreement isn't an indication of slow-wittedness.

By itself, it isn't, but I'm not making over-arching general statements about disagreement; that's all you.

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I've got a bit of a silly theory. Was Nicola aware that Elayne and Birgitte were bonded? I ask because of the way Areina follows her everywhere and the other day I read something about Areina's expression mirroring Nicola's, which made me think of how Birgitte and Elayne mirror each other. Maybe Nicola got the idea to bond Areina from Elayne? Areina does like to pretend she's Birgitte after all. Which means Areina might mad-Warder-revenge-kill whoever killed Nicola. I did say it was silly...

Edited by Feral

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It's been said (I think by Egwene, or at least some Aes Sedai...) that two people skimming, even to the same location, can not see each other. So why was Rand able to see Asmodean when he was going to Rhuidean to get the Choedan Kahl? Can men see each other skimming, or were they not skimming at all? Did I just misread it? :X

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It's been said (I think by Egwene, or at least some Aes Sedai...) that two people skimming, even to the same location, can not see each other. So why was Rand able to see Asmodean when he was going to Rhuidean to get the Choedan Kahl? Can men see each other skimming, or were they not skimming at all? Did I just misread it? :X

I wonder if rand skimmed from the same spot to the same spot could see each other

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Well, if Asmodean's saga has shown us anything, it's that reasonable people can (an in fact, frequently do) disagree.

 

However, just so my position is clearly stated in here: I stand by the theory that Graendal was in the Caemlyn palace following her discovery of Rand's altered plans, met with Asmodean when he went snooping around, and took him out of the equation herself. And my personal feeling is that she did it with BF, RJ's comments about it be damned.

 

 

I kinda figured that Graendal settled RJ's comments as to the where in the ToM Epilogue.

 

She tossed a few ter'angreal from her desk into the pack, then rifled her closet for changes of clothing. He could find her anywhere in the world. But perhaps one of the mirror realms of the Portal Stones. Yes. There, his connections were not--
Edited by Finnssss

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Except that we know it didn't happen in a Portal World because we saw it onscreen, nowhere near a Portal Stone...

 

@Goldstar - if the weave is exactly the same they can see each other, so most people try to explain it with 'Rand unconsciously copied Asmodean's weave exactly'.

 

@Feral - You're not the first to wonder. I believe Luckers said something to Brandon about it, how he'd like to see a scene with Ariena suffering because of Nicola's death.

Edited by Terez

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Except that we know it didn't happen in a Portal World because we saw it onscreen, nowhere near a Portal Stone...

 

 

The "Death took him" line always seemed a little foggy in that instance for me. I always read it as his assassin wrapped him up and took him away. *Shrugs*

Edited by Finnssss

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