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A question for which I WANT a spoiler answer:

 

Who is Mesaana?

 

Obviously, having only read up through KOD, the Aes Sedai whom Mesaana is disguised as has not been revealed to me. I'm rereading WOT now, but I confess to feeling some impatience with RJ's frequently irritating mysteries. Frankly, I would like to know ahead of time who she is, so that when I encounter her on the page I can feel some genuine suspense vis a vis her interactions with others. This will enhance my enjoyment of the story, not ruin it ... at least that's how it works for me. I don't need all secrets to be revealed ahead of their time, but I would appreciate this one.

 

Pretty please, and thank you.

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A question for which I WANT a spoiler answer:

 

Who is Mesaana?

 

Obviously, having only read up through KOD, the Aes Sedai whom Mesaana is disguised as has not been revealed to me. I'm rereading WOT now, but I confess to feeling some impatience with RJ's frequently irritating mysteries. Frankly, I would like to know ahead of time who she is, so that when I encounter her on the page I can feel some genuine suspense vis a vis her interactions with others. This will enhance my enjoyment of the story, not ruin it ... at least that's how it works for me. I don't need all secrets to be revealed ahead of their time, but I would appreciate this one.

 

Pretty please, and thank you.

The name is:

 

 

Danelle, of the Brown Ajah. I do not recall her ever having a significant conversation with a "main" character.

 

Edited by Luc is Isam

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Re: Mesaana's alter ego being on stage (for Joshua)

 

 

The only major interaction she had was during Siuan's arrest, where she smirked at Siuan. She was also the one who brought in the mason's who began the fighting. After that she faded into the background (as is Mesaana's style).

 

 

Re: Mesaana's alter ego reveal (note: contains specific spoilers about that reveal so original question asker may not wish to read)

 

 

I found the whole reveal surrounding her a bit underwhelming. It might have been interesting if Egwene hadn't intuited that she had somehow gotten around the Oaths (say if Egwene had assumed she was one of those who weren't on Verin's list who fled when the Blacks did, or that she was disguised as something other than Aes Sedai), then the Danelle reveal would of had the weight of 'oh crap, the Oaths aren't inviolate.

 

This is the problem with hardcore theorizing. We pick up whats what and it becomes underwhelming. I reckon its the same as why most people find the Tower of Ghenjei scene boring, because we knew it was coming--though in hindsight I reckon that will make a great re-read scene. *sigh*.

 

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Thanks, everyone!

 

It's funny--this time through TSR and the prologue of TFOH, that particular Aes Sedai struck me as a possible candidate for Mesaana, (that smirk and the stuff with the masons were hints) but she was just one among others, and I would never go so far as to claim that I "guessed correctly." Still ... what a coincidence!

 

Again, thanks ... knowing this will really boost my enjoyment of her scenes.

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Re: Mesaana's alter ego being on stage (for Joshua)

 

 

The only major interaction she had was during Siuan's arrest, where she smirked at Siuan. She was also the one who brought in the mason's who began the fighting. After that she faded into the background (as is Mesaana's style).

 

 

Re: Mesaana's alter ego reveal (note: contains specific spoilers about that reveal so original question asker may not wish to read)

 

 

I found the whole reveal surrounding her a bit underwhelming. It might have been interesting if Egwene hadn't intuited that she had somehow gotten around the Oaths (say if Egwene had assumed she was one of those who weren't on Verin's list who fled when the Blacks did, or that she was disguised as something other than Aes Sedai), then the Danelle reveal would of had the weight of 'oh crap, the Oaths aren't inviolate.

 

This is the problem with hardcore theorizing. We pick up whats what and it becomes underwhelming. I reckon its the same as why most people find the Tower of Ghenjei scene boring, because we knew it was coming--though in hindsight I reckon that will make a great re-read scene. *sigh*.

 

 

 

I don't remember seeing anyone post how she does this. The trick with avoiding the Oath Rod was obvious; like every AS knows it's in the wording. I think it's BS being not as good as RJ in putting it into words. When rooting out the Black Ajah what they require the sisters to say is "I am not Black Ajah." which in Mesaanna's case is true, she is not Blacj Ajah, she is a Forsaken/Chosen.

 

 

 

I think the scene at the Tower of Ghenjai was boring not because we all expected it, but because we expected it to spectacular which it was not. Now here I'd say that RJ didn't have enough notes for BS to make the scene Glamorous. Or maybe it is just that BS is lacking? RJ was able to make the scene of Ingtar's sacrifice in being left behind heart rending by claiming in the last possible moment that he was DF when he didn't reallly have to, he could have taken it to his grave and no one would be the wiser, but he did tell and also tell of a from the heart desire to return to the light and right what he had done wrong.

 

While with Jain's case, he was "left behind" just so that mat could figure out that his Ashandarei is a key out of the tower, that if he had figured this out beforehand, Jain wouldn't have needed to die. Also he knew it was useless to him the the tower, why did he bring it along? Just a stupid plot device?

 

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Re: Mesaana's alter ego being on stage (for Joshua)

 

 

The only major interaction she had was during Siuan's arrest, where she smirked at Siuan. She was also the one who brought in the mason's who began the fighting. After that she faded into the background (as is Mesaana's style).

 

 

Re: Mesaana's alter ego reveal (note: contains specific spoilers about that reveal so original question asker may not wish to read)

 

 

I found the whole reveal surrounding her a bit underwhelming. It might have been interesting if Egwene hadn't intuited that she had somehow gotten around the Oaths (say if Egwene had assumed she was one of those who weren't on Verin's list who fled when the Blacks did, or that she was disguised as something other than Aes Sedai), then the Danelle reveal would of had the weight of 'oh crap, the Oaths aren't inviolate.

 

This is the problem with hardcore theorizing. We pick up whats what and it becomes underwhelming. I reckon its the same as why most people find the Tower of Ghenjei scene boring, because we knew it was coming--though in hindsight I reckon that will make a great re-read scene. *sigh*.

 

 

 

I don't remember seeing anyone post how she does this. The trick with avoiding the Oath Rod was obvious; like every AS knows it's in the wording. I think it's BS being not as good as RJ in putting it into words. When rooting out the Black Ajah what they require the sisters to say is "I am not Black Ajah." which in Mesaanna's case is true, she is not Blacj Ajah, she is a Forsaken/Chosen.

 

 

 

I think the scene at the Tower of Ghenjai was boring not because we all expected it, but because we expected it to spectacular which it was not. Now here I'd say that RJ didn't have enough notes for BS to make the scene Glamorous. Or maybe it is just that BS is lacking? RJ was able to make the scene of Ingtar's sacrifice in being left behind heart rending by claiming in the last possible moment that he was DF when he didn't reallly have to, he could have taken it to his grave and no one would be the wiser, but he did tell and also tell of a from the heart desire to return to the light and right what he had done wrong.

 

While with Jain's case, he was "left behind" just so that mat could figure out that his Ashandarei is a key out of the tower, that if he had figured this out beforehand, Jain wouldn't have needed to die. Also he knew it was useless to him the the tower, why did he bring it along? Just a stupid plot device?

 

 

Actually per BS, RJ wrote the entire ToG scene...

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Re: Mesaana's alter ego being on stage (for Joshua)

 

 

The only major interaction she had was during Siuan's arrest, where she smirked at Siuan. She was also the one who brought in the mason's who began the fighting. After that she faded into the background (as is Mesaana's style).

 

 

Re: Mesaana's alter ego reveal (note: contains specific spoilers about that reveal so original question asker may not wish to read)

 

 

I found the whole reveal surrounding her a bit underwhelming. It might have been interesting if Egwene hadn't intuited that she had somehow gotten around the Oaths (say if Egwene had assumed she was one of those who weren't on Verin's list who fled when the Blacks did, or that she was disguised as something other than Aes Sedai), then the Danelle reveal would of had the weight of 'oh crap, the Oaths aren't inviolate.

 

This is the problem with hardcore theorizing. We pick up whats what and it becomes underwhelming. I reckon its the same as why most people find the Tower of Ghenjei scene boring, because we knew it was coming--though in hindsight I reckon that will make a great re-read scene. *sigh*.

 

 

 

I don't remember seeing anyone post how she does this. The trick with avoiding the Oath Rod was obvious; like every AS knows it's in the wording. I think it's BS being not as good as RJ in putting it into words. When rooting out the Black Ajah what they require the sisters to say is "I am not Black Ajah." which in Mesaanna's case is true, she is not Blacj Ajah, she is a Forsaken/Chosen.

 

 

 

I think the scene at the Tower of Ghenjai was boring not because we all expected it, but because we expected it to spectacular which it was not. Now here I'd say that RJ didn't have enough notes for BS to make the scene Glamorous. Or maybe it is just that BS is lacking? RJ was able to make the scene of Ingtar's sacrifice in being left behind heart rending by claiming in the last possible moment that he was DF when he didn't reallly have to, he could have taken it to his grave and no one would be the wiser, but he did tell and also tell of a from the heart desire to return to the light and right what he had done wrong.

 

While with Jain's case, he was "left behind" just so that mat could figure out that his Ashandarei is a key out of the tower, that if he had figured this out beforehand, Jain wouldn't have needed to die. Also he knew it was useless to him the the tower, why did he bring it along? Just a stupid plot device?

 

 

The trick of avoiding the Oath Rod wasn't my point--indeed Brandon has confirmed it was one of the ways Seaine came up with, all of which were listed prior to the release of TofM by the Fandom--it was the mystery and the effect of Oaths being violated which could have been nifty.

 

RJ wrote the ToG scene (except for a few lines put in by Brandon during the editing, which you can pick easily enough), and I think it IS spectacular, just not at first glance. It has some of the smoothest writing in the series--the whole 'we are the Near Ancient, the warriors of last regret'... it was beautiful.

 

I did find the reason Moiraine and Cyndane's decline very odd though, no doubt lingering pangs from the strength of the evidence that they were burned out, but yeah, that and Moiraine being given wishes was strange.

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Sorry, I'm not very familiar with ToG, which is that?

 

On a side note, why can Perrin wolf-telepathy Boundless when he is actually a Man?

And why is it that Elyas is never mentioned to go to the "Wolfdream" aka TAR?

Has Elyas' AS ever been revealed yet? If yes, who is she?

 

More additional Qs;

At the end of tGS, Egwene notes that the rebel's emissary to the BT has not reported for quite a while and that they should have been able to because they can travel (and Nynaeve travel to their camp to get Lan's warder bond), even if it is just to report that they have yet to bond Ashamans because of a delegation from the Tower previously under elaida (Tarna and Co.)

Edited by mackoY-kun

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Sorry, I'm not very familiar with ToG, which is that?

 

On a side note, why can Perrin wolf-telepathy Boundless when he is actually a Man?

And why is it that Elyas is never mentioned to go to the "Wolfdream" aka TAR?

Has Elyas' AS ever been revealed yet? If yes, who is she?

 

More additional Qs;

At the end of tGS, Egwene notes that the rebel's emissary to the BT has not reported for quite a while and that they should have been able to because they can travel (and Nynaeve travel to their camp to get Lan's warder bond), even if it is just to report that they have yet to bond Ashamans because of a delegation from the Tower previously under elaida (Tarna and Co.)

ToG = Tower of Ghenjei. I'm assuming from your other Qs that you've read ToM.

Perrin can apparently telepath anybody who thinks like a wolf. Boundless is a wolf-brother so he's accessible.

Elyas deliberately avoids the wolf dream (aka TAR) as he tells Perrin because he knows it's dangerous.

Yes, we know Elyas' AS - he mentions her and she also appears in New Spring. Her name is Rina Hafden.

What is the Q with respect to the emissaries to the BT? No, they haven't reported back.

Edited by Sharaman

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Sorry, I'm not very familiar with ToG, which is that?

 

On a side note, why can Perrin wolf-telepathy Boundless when he is actually a Man?

I considered that he might be dead (I can't recall anything that contradicts it, though it might seem highly speculative to some to assume that Noam would go, or stay there when he died). But yeah, it could just be because he gave in to the wolf. Elyas never really did - not like that. Perhaps even less than Perrin. He just found a balance.

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Sorry, I'm not very familiar with ToG, which is that?

 

 

Sorry, it's a fan acronym for Tower of Ghenjei.

 

On a side note, why can Perrin wolf-telepathy Boundless when he is actually a Man?

 

Boundless has the same ability, and for that matter Perrin makes a connection with Noal the man during tDR, but only sees wolfy emotions because that was all that is left in Noal's human body with his consciousness running the dream.

 

And why is it that Elyas is never mentioned to go to the "Wolfdream" aka TAR?

 

He says he avoids it because its dangerous. In tGS or TofM, I believe.

 

Has Elyas' AS ever been revealed yet? If yes, who is she?

 

Rina, she's of the Green Ajah. We see Elyas with her in New Spring, and she's a too-young Sitter for the Green in Elaida's Hall.

 

At the end of tGS, Egwene notes that the rebel's emissary to the BT has not reported for quite a while and that they should have been able to because they can travel (and Nynaeve travel to their camp to get Lan's warder bond), even if it is just to report that they have yet to bond Ashamans because of a delegation from the Tower previously under elaida (Tarna and Co.)

 

We've no explanation for it. It's possibly a mistake, as in maybe Brandon forgot he'd need Myrelle accessible to Nynaeve and so made comments as if they were in the dreamspike field in tGS only to realise he needed them outside for TofM... but yeah, in truth we don't know.

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Sorry, I'm not very familiar with ToG, which is that?

 

On a side note, why can Perrin wolf-telepathy Boundless when he is actually a Man?

I considered that he might be dead (I can't recall anything that contradicts it, though it might seem highly speculative to some to assume that Noam would go, or stay there when he died). But yeah, it could just be because he gave in to the wolf. Elyas never really did - not like that. Perhaps even less than Perrin. He just found a balance.

I think Perrin notes that Boundless is in a physical location outside TAR?

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Sorry, I'm not very familiar with ToG, which is that?

 

On a side note, why can Perrin wolf-telepathy Boundless when he is actually a Man?

I considered that he might be dead (I can't recall anything that contradicts it, though it might seem highly speculative to some to assume that Noam would go, or stay there when he died). But yeah, it could just be because he gave in to the wolf. Elyas never really did - not like that. Perhaps even less than Perrin. He just found a balance.

I think Perrin notes that Boundless is in a physical location outside TAR?

LIke I said, I don't remember. He did encounter him in the same region as he left him, that that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

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Sorry, I'm not very familiar with ToG, which is that?

 

On a side note, why can Perrin wolf-telepathy Boundless when he is actually a Man?

I considered that he might be dead (I can't recall anything that contradicts it, though it might seem highly speculative to some to assume that Noam would go, or stay there when he died). But yeah, it could just be because he gave in to the wolf. Elyas never really did - not like that. Perhaps even less than Perrin. He just found a balance.

I think Perrin notes that Boundless is in a physical location outside TAR?

 

hmm...? I don't get what you mean. :rolleyes:

 

And I'm 90% sure that perrin thought that he regretted that he could not communicate with Elyas the same way with wolves so he can know what he knows when Elyas went scouting earlier on in Faile's capture. I think that traslates that wolfbrother to wolfbrother telepathy does work. If it doesn't work in the real randland world why should it be different in TAR?

 

@Terez: I'm actually reading the summaries in encyclopaedia-wot.org, and saw what you said. Elyas says he avoids the wolfdream. He's probably an averange Warder(if you can call a Warder average :smiles:), not the super hero taveren variety that Perrin is, so he avoids it.

 

Then with the timeline with Nynaeve, it's all messed up. I'm having trouble setting it up in my mind in a chronological order. Egwene is supposed to already have taken the tower by the time she sends her summons in her dream, Elayne also gets this summon.

 

Light-bulb Flash! (As I was writing, an idea came to me)

Oh! In tGS and ToM BS purposely did not write things concerning the BT. And the last three Books is supposed to be one 1 last book. I'm going to bet that the aMoL will also have simultaneous events occurring with the other two books.

Maybe by the time that Nynaeve goes to the BT, things have already been sorted out? :rolleyes:

Edited by mackoY-kun

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Luckers, that's Noam. Noal was otherwise engaged at the time :smile:

 

Oh, and Luc is Isam, if you're reading this, mind going back and correcting the name of Mesaana's alias in your original post? Luckers mentioned the correct name in his, just after yours. The Ajah you got right (though Delana is actually Grey, not Brown).

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Sorry, I'm not very familiar with ToG, which is that?

 

On a side note, why can Perrin wolf-telepathy Boundless when he is actually a Man?

I considered that he might be dead (I can't recall anything that contradicts it, though it might seem highly speculative to some to assume that Noam would go, or stay there when he died). But yeah, it could just be because he gave in to the wolf. Elyas never really did - not like that. Perhaps even less than Perrin. He just found a balance.

I think Perrin notes that Boundless is in a physical location outside TAR?

 

hmm...? I don't get what you mean. :rolleyes:

 

And I'm 90% sure that perrin thought that he regretted that he could not communicate with Elyas the same way with wolves so he can know what he knows when Elyas went scouting earlier on in Faile's capture. I think that traslates that wolfbrother to wolfbrother telepathy does work. If it doesn't work in the real randland world why should it be different in TAR?

 

@Terez: I'm actually reading the summaries in encyclopaedia-wot.org, and saw what you said. Elyas says he avoids the wolfdream. He's probably an averange Warder(if you can call a Warder average :smiles:), not the super hero taveren variety that Perrin is, so he avoids it.

 

Then with the timeline with Nynaeve, it's all messed up. I'm having trouble setting it up in my mind in a chronological order. Egwene is supposed to already have taken the tower by the time she sends her summons in her dream, Elayne also gets this summon.

 

Light-bulb Flash! (As I was writing, an idea came to me)

Oh! In tGS and ToM BS purposely did not write things concerning the BT. And the last three Books is supposed to be one 1 last book. I'm going to bet that the aMoL will also have simultaneous events occurring with the other two books.

Maybe by the time that Nynaeve goes to the BT, things have already been sorted out? :rolleyes:

The timelines are scrambled in TGS and ToM.

There are sections written from Egwene's PoV and Perrin's PoV that are placed earlier in the book (ToM) but later in the timelines compared to sections written from other PoVs that are placed later in the book.

If you haven't read ToM, I won't clarify the question about BT and Nynaeve.

 

From what we've seen Perrin can communicate with real wolves in real-world as well as TAR. However he has to make an effort (LoC when he calls the wolves for example).

Perrin can communicate with Noam-Boundless in real-world as well in TDR.

 

Speculation follows

 

He probably can't communicate with Elyas in real-world because Elyas doesn't let the wolf side of his nature have full rein and Elyas' human nature is in control.

We don't know if Perrin and Elyas can communicate in TAR because Elyas doesn't go there.

This is my surmise - I'm sure experts will clarify if I'm wrong..

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What? I was pretty sure that what happened with Noam the first time was not actual communication but just an influx of emotion. Elyas let's the wolves talk with him and he has also accepted them, that's why he "runs" with them. If wolfbrothers can somehow communicate with other wolfbrothers through wolf-telepathy, I don't see any reason for Perrin not do it with Elyas.

 

I understand what your saying that Elyas maybe pulling off on being wolf, but I don't see it hindering his wolfbro to wolf bro telepathy, in fact he wouldn't he embrace that? being able to talk with another wolf bro means he is closer to being human, if that is what is is pullling at.

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Unless it's not wolfbro to wolfbro, just wolf to wolfbro, and Noam's an exception because he's not a man any longer, not really.

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Luckers, that's Noam. Noal was otherwise engaged at the time :smile:

 

Oh, and Luc is Isam, if you're reading this, mind going back and correcting the name of Mesaana's alias in your original post? Luckers mentioned the correct name in his, just after yours. The Ajah you got right (though Delana is actually Grey, not Brown).

Sorry. Just fixed it. I read the quote right out of the book and then typed the wrong name. She made that little impact on me. :blush:

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What? I was pretty sure that what happened with Noam the first time was not actual communication but just an influx of emotion. Elyas let's the wolves talk with him and he has also accepted them, that's why he "runs" with them. If wolfbrothers can somehow communicate with other wolfbrothers through wolf-telepathy, I don't see any reason for Perrin not do it with Elyas.

 

I understand what your saying that Elyas maybe pulling off on being wolf, but I don't see it hindering his wolfbro to wolf bro telepathy, in fact he wouldn't he embrace that? being able to talk with another wolf bro means he is closer to being human, if that is what is is pullling at.

Not a simple question and not a simple answer.

Maybe you should open a thread on it.

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How does the artwork for the chapter icons? Siuan's fish is really cool.

 

Chapter icons are chosen (and designed I think) by Harriet.

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They are designed by someone else, but chosen mostly by Harriet. I think Brandon indicated he had more influence on chapter icons than on chapter titles (which are all Harriet).

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These questions got overlooked in the deluge, so I'll take a stab at them.

 

1) In Winter's Heart and/or Crossroads of Twilight Elayne is thinking about the Kin and that only like a dozen are strong enough to travel. How does that make sense? Surely they can travel when linked and there are hundreds of them. It doesn't seem plausible that a) they never think about that or b) they aren't taught linking (that second is plain impossible too as some were present when using the bowl) c) Egwene never told them

 

Linking takes enough time and coordination that it's not used all that frequently. That's conjecture, but how many times do you put up with someone borrowing your car before you tell them to shove it?

 

2) Can someone explain why Elayne takes weeks to travel to Caemlyn when she could just Travel there instead (like when she returns from the meeting with the borderlanders)

 

She wanted to gauge the situation in Andor (and Caemlyn) before officially making her declaration for the throne.

 

3) They send Kin back to Seanchan controlled lands to rescue Kin and channelers. Are they taught to travel, inverting and masking their ability to channel?

 

The Kin use Travelling frequently during the siege of Caemlyn. Elayne also proposes that Travelling is one of the services they offer in exchange for long-term support from the crown. I don't know about inverting or masking, but sending women to various scattered towns and villages wouldn't necessarily need such heavy precautions.

 

4) Why doesn't Elayne recruit her houses' forces right at the start (with travelling), instead of waiting long enough for them to start to get bogged down in the snows and cut out, then start visiting the country for childs and old men?

 

It takes time to marshal an army, particularly when you're calling them in from their farms and villages.

 

5) Why does Elayne try to transport Naean and Elenia by foot when they could just take them out with gateways. She send a messenger via gateway, how hard would it be to keep that gateway open?

 

She's busy with solidifying her support and administering Caemlyn, and she believed a mundane prisoner transfer would suffice. It was a mistake in hindsight and Elayne does kick herself for not securing them personally.

 

-- dwn

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