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Isn't It Reasonable To Think That Moirane Will Emerge Traumatized and Insane?


The Fisher King
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Im shocked that over the long years Ive never seen this thought. Everybody can't seem to wait for Moirane Damodred's return but why most seem to think she'll be all Fine and Dandy when she comes back has always mystified me.

 

Shes been held captive for quite some time in an alternate dimension by The Finns, who, while not ''evil'' in the strictest sense of the word, according to RJ, certainly are twisted, and killers, and peelers of human skin.

 

If she has been Heavily-Tortured, she may well emerge a Babbling Mess.

 

I have a strong suspicion we will see something similar to ''Un-Cat.''

 

Best Case Scenario might be the Slightly Unstable Gandalf that returns Post-Plunge.

 

My money is on UnCat though...

 

Just a Thought...

 

 

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Well, it's certainly a good question to ask. It can be easy to see nothing but the bright side of Moiraine being rescued because we have all been waiting for it for so long, but there will certainly be more to it then that.

 

However, I don't think we'll find her insane or catatonic. Though traumatized and a babbling mess may be her initial state. If anyone has the strength of will to not be completely broken it's Moiraine. And we also have tidbits that suggest Moiraine will go back to a semblance of a normal life if/when she is rescued.

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    I kind of hope there will be changes. If not it will just be like she was suspended in Time. Every experience big, small, good, bad, all changes us in some way, so keeping Moiraine the exact same as she was when she plunged wouldn't be right. She needs to have changed in some ways to make it believable. Now the extent of the changes... that will definetly be the question.

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*bite*

 

Whats UnCat?

 

I see Moiraine coming out a little more focused, if that's possible. Events at the end of tGS (sorry) are PERFECT for her to be able to come back and have an impact, if you know what I mean.

 

Moving this thought into the ToM speculation thread in spoilers...

 

Anyway, no, I think she will remain a strong, indepandant black woman. Er, Aes Sedai, sorry. American Dad is on TV.

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Of course she's going to emerge batty. This will help her to connect emotionally and mentally with RaT who is already batty (as well as with the other Ashaman). It will also give her sharper insight into Moridin and Fain, not to mention GLoD. For the first time, Rand will have an adviser who really understands him ( and one who has no compunctions about using balefire into the bargain).

 

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*bite*

 

Whats UnCat?

The internet nickname of Lady Stoneheart, Catelyn Stark's undead alter ego.

 

I'd never heard that term. Wow. I have GOT to start spending more time on the internet. To think I've spent all these years between the last WoT book and the last SoIaF book virtually alone in the wilderness... and all you people have had this big wonderful support group.

 

Back on topic, remind me if I've forgotten - why do we think Moraine won't be able to channel and what possible reason would we have to think that she might be insane. In 'real time' she really hasn't been gone that long, after all...

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The Doctor Said: That would be wicked if she emerged traumatized and insane, and just went around nuking people randomly with balefire.

 

ITA!!! - That'd be worth the price of the book alone LOL!!!

 

 

Fish

 

Yeah, I do kind of like the 'Dark Pheonix' idea of Moraine, though part of me thinks we might already kinda sorta of have that in Alivia...

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It is reasonable to theorize that Moiraine's captivity may have  had some ill effects on her psyche, however the one thing that speaks against this is that she has apparently remained rational enough to appease the Finns.  Apparently Lanfear did something to offend hers captors and it seems that Moiraine has retained the presence of mind to avoid doing the same.  I suspect that she will be changed in some ways, but emerging as a raving lunatic seems unlikely.  Had she become beligerant then I'd think that the Finns would have offed her as they did Lanfear.

 

On the other hand, perhaps the opposite of all of this is true.  Perhaps it is not that Lanfear was killed because she offended her captors but rather Moiraine used her politically honed Blue Ajah mind to earn herself a stay of execution.  That is to say perhaps the Finns' initial plan was to execute both prisoners but Moiraine was able to sweet talk her way out of it and even curry their favor to some extent.  Being held captive does not necessarily mean being bound or locked in a cell.  I sometimes wonder if Moiraine has manipulated her way into some kind of endentured servitude to the Finns, and therein is using that Blue Ajah mind glean some secrets that will ultimately help Rand to defeat and reseal the DO.  I don't think the possibility of Moiraine learning vital information from the Finns has ever been discussed either.

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Ashaman DeRouge...Check Out ASOS by George RR Martin and the follow-up, A Feast For The Crows and You will get to read plenty about UnCat...Im not trying to be vague, just to leave a bit of non-spoil.

 

Sharaman...Rand and Moiranine finally being on the same page is an idea i LIKE!

 

Mr Ares...Just to show you how goofy I am, while I picked up at the end on ASOS on UnCat, I didn't realize UnCat = Lady Stonheart my first read through AFFC LOL!!! - I nevere claimed to be quick!!!

 

ImpBo...Ease yourself in...Im not very knowledgable about computers, and I have an un-reliable memory (though not ALL my fault,lol, was in a bad accident just a bit back) and you add those two factors together for Embarrasing Fun!!!

 

 

The Watcher and The Wanderer: ''''On the other hand, perhaps the opposite of all of this is true.  Perhaps it is not that Lanfear was killed because she offended her captors but rather Moiraine used her politically honed Blue Ajah mind to earn herself a stay of execution.   That is to say perhaps the Finns' initial plan was to execute both prisoners but Moiraine was able to sweet talk her way out of it and even curry their favor to some extent.   Being held captive does not necessarily mean being bound or locked in a cell.   I sometimes wonder if Moiraine has manipulated her way into some kind of endentured servitude to the Finns, and therein is using that Blue Ajah mind glean some secrets that will ultimately help Rand to defeat and reseal the DO. I don't think the possibility of Moiraine learning vital information from the Finns has ever been discussed either.''''

 

I like this idea alot...If Moiraine WAS somehow able to keep it together, and used ''Mad Blue Ajah Skillz'' on The Finns...somehow, though, sadly, I just can't see a mortal woman (and Aes Sedai, no matter how powerful, are still mortal) getting The Edge on creatures like The Finns...The Finns *Owned* a FOSAKEN (lanfear)for crying out loud, and The Forsaken are much much more powerful than Aes Sedai...So, I think your optimistic theory is sadly unlikely, but i WOULD like to see it!!!

 

 

 

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You know...another thought too is that...say Moiraine DOES come out a bit on the ah ''Intense'' side...it may not be the worst thing in the world for Rand and Team Light.

 

Aes Sedai, Aiel, lots of Rand's forces adhere to certain moral codes that prevent them from getting too Down and Dirty...

 

Lets say Captivity By Finns breaks a Aes Sedai's bond to The Three Oaths...

 

A Rogue Agent Aes Sedai playing on Rand's Team could actually be very valuable the time TG rolls around...

 

 

I mean, I don't want to see Moir running around like some Rabid Dog, buuut, a player of her power feeling no contraints might be just what the Good Guys need...

 

 

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I like this idea alot

 

Thank you.

 

If Moiraine WAS somehow able to keep it together, and used ''Mad Blue Ajah Skillz'' on The Finns...somehow, though, sadly, I just can't see a mortal woman (and Aes Sedai, no matter how powerful, are still mortal) getting The Edge on creatures like The Finns...The Finns *Owned* a FOSAKEN (lanfear)for crying out loud, and The Forsaken are much much more powerful than Aes Sedai...So, I think your optimistic theory is sadly unlikely, but i WOULD like to see it!!!

 

Well, we don't know what went down between Moiraine, Lanfear and the Finn so we don't know for sure that they owned Lanfear.   All we know is that they held her captive for some time and ultimately killed her.  For all we know she make not have been captured easily and might have put up a good fight before they ultimately did her in.   But anyway even if they did own her in a physical fight that is immaterial because strength and skill with the one power have nothing to do with this scenario.  It is not Moiraine's ability to use the one power that would allow her to get an edge on the Finns but rather her ability to use her mind; politics, manipulation etc.   This may not be an easy task but this is a girl who grew up in the court of Carhien and has been trained by the Blue Ajah, a girl who helped manipulate events in the White Tower such that her best friend was named Amyrlin at an unusually young age.   If anybody could pull this off its Moiraine.

 

Also I was under the impression that the Finns are themselves mortal.  Much like Ogier they are a different kind of creature than human beings and have some abilities that humans do not.  But they can still be killed and will eventually grow old an die. 

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I think she will come out without her memories and ability to channel at first, then slowly recover her memories, be in love with Thom, be her own cool, calm self, then be asked if she wants to receive healing by Nynaeve.

 

I'm sorry - can somebody remind me how/when Moraine was stilled? I really don't remember that.

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Also that Lanfear, presumably, was stilled after going through the same process that Moiraine has. Why assume any different treatment was given to Moiraine?

 

I am instantly in love with the idea of Moir working underground in the Finns Tower, utilitizing her wit and smarts to 'worm her way' into the Finns semi-trust. Sadly, I think the event with Tom pulling her blue forehead thingy out of the fire, I think that fire there means strife.

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Also that Lanfear, presumably, was stilled after going through the same process that Moiraine has. Why assume any different treatment was given to Moiraine?

 

I am instantly in love with the idea of Moir working underground in the Finns Tower, utilitizing her wit and smarts to 'worm her way' into the Finns semi-trust. Sadly, I think the event with Tom pulling her blue forehead thingy out of the fire, I think that fire there means strife.

 

Good point, but according to this theory there would be some strife involved.  She would at best be like a favorite slave to them and would by no means have free run of Finland.  Despite being somewhat favored she would still be very much a prisoner.  She would also live every moment knowing that at any time they might turn on her or that a powerful member of the Eelfinn race might take a particular liking to her skin.

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The doorway melting caused Moiraines bond to Lan snap. The only other instances where that happens-that we know of-is when the Aes Sedai loses the ability to channel.

 

So its an assumption then, if a reasonable one, and not confirmed fact. Is it possible that the bond 'snapped' because the two bonded were in seperate time/space continuum?

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The doorway melting caused Moiraines bond to Lan snap. The only other instances where that happens-that we know of-is when the Aes Sedai loses the ability to channel.

 

So its an assumption then, if a reasonable one, and not confirmed fact. Is it possible that the bond 'snapped' because the two bonded were in seperate time/space continuum?

 

Unlikely that separate dimensions had an effect since it didn't snap during Moiraine's earlier Tear trip in Fox land.

In fact, Rand channeled in snake-land so one presumes that Moiraine could under normal circs - of course, the rules may be different for Foxland.

Also perhaps, the nelting of the doorway may have cut the link between ST continuums.

 

 

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The doorway melting caused Moiraines bond to Lan snap. The only other instances where that happens-that we know of-is when the Aes Sedai loses the ability to channel.

 

So its an assumption then, if a reasonable one, and not confirmed fact. Is it possible that the bond 'snapped' because the two bonded were in seperate time/space continuum?

 

Unlikely that separate dimensions had an effect since it didn't snap during Moiraine's earlier Tear trip in Fox land.

In fact, Rand channeled in snake-land so one presumes that Moiraine could under normal circs - of course, the rules may be different for Foxland.

Also perhaps, the nelting of the doorway may have cut the link between ST continuums.

 

 

 

It just seems to me that the 'snap' in the bond was a red herring to make everyone believe that Moraine was dead (the 'other time' that we've seen the bond snap), and since we pretty much realize now that she's not, the stilling is an assumption we all lept to. Nothing that we know of took place that would have resulted in her stilling - she wasn't drawing more of the power than she could handle, for instance.

 

This is definitely the subplot I'm most interested in seeing resolved... but then, I kinda got a little thing for Moraine.  ;)

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