Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Luckers

Post tGS Predictions of the End (Full Spoilers)

Recommended Posts

 

Well I find it worrisome for a much more mundane reason.  Truth be told, I've never really liked Egwene, and the last thing the story needs, IMHO, is more power for Egwene (not to mention the Dragon on the receiving end of another witchslap).  Honestly, if Sanderson can just see it in his heart to start the last battle with all the AS leashed by the Seanchan (except for maybe Nynaeve and a couple of others), I'd be the happiest reader this side of the Spine of the World.  Not the Kin, mind you, just the AS.  They bug me to no end.

 

Don't forget the Windfinders. . .

 

And sure, Egwene has redeemed herself somewhat for me in the last 2 books, but if she reads Rand the riot act and makes him eat crow she'll drop to below her former low place in my estimation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Well I find it worrisome for a much more mundane reason.  Truth be told, I've never really liked Egwene, and the last thing the story needs, IMHO, is more power for Egwene (not to mention the Dragon on the receiving end of another witchslap).  Honestly, if Sanderson can just see it in his heart to start the last battle with all the AS leashed by the Seanchan (except for maybe Nynaeve and a couple of others), I'd be the happiest reader this side of the Spine of the World.  Not the Kin, mind you, just the AS.  They bug me to no end.

 

Don't forget the Windfinders. . .

 

And sure, Egwene has redeemed herself somewhat for me in the last 2 books, but if she reads Rand the riot act and makes him eat crow she'll drop to below her former low place in my estimation.

 

Oh I agree.  Her character has become a tad bit less unpleasant, but that's nothing that her reunion with that glorified Backstreet Boy Gawyn can't overcome.  If ever there were two people destined for one another...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow! What's with the Egwene hating? She and Elayne are the best leaders in the book. Egwene was annoying for a while, I will give you that, but I really think she's proved herself in the last few books. As for the Aes Sedai being leashed... most of them deserve it the way they carry on. I agree on that point as I can't stand most of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Belief and Order in the Old Tongue both translate as "Bela" ;)

 

LMAO! So maybe we should use Bela to seal the hole in the Bore  :D

 

I don't think anyone would live to haul Bela off to the glue factory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Belief and Order in the Old Tongue both translate as "Bela" ;)

 

LMAO! So maybe we should use Bela to seal the hole in the Bore  :D

 

I don't think anyone would live to haul Bela off to the glue factory.

 

 

That would be done *before* she is used to seal the Bore ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wow! What's with the Egwene hating? She and Elayne are the best leaders in the book. Egwene was annoying for a while, I will give you that, but I really think she's proved herself in the last few books. As for the Aes Sedai being leashed... most of them deserve it the way they carry on. I agree on that point as I can't stand most of them.

 

The issue with Egwene is she's very hypocritical.  Personally, I just want her to realize that all the stuff she was maligning Rand for earlier is the same stuff -she- has been doing for the past few books.  That and she's too willing to put the Tower ahead of other stuff.  However, her stock did rise a -lot- in the past two books, for me.  She showed a lot of strength of character and canniness that I liked.

 

Elayne, though ... I don't really agree that she's the best leader in the book.  Or even a good leader.  A good leader does not go to possible Darkfriends when pregnant, knowing that her channeling is off, and get herself captured.  And thus lose a great deal of people because they have to rescue her.  This is only one example.  Elayne has her heart in the right place, but she's a -terrible- leader; she's way too impulsive.  She is, however, a good bureaucrat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sorry, but i dont think the seanchan could ever beat the aiel, not to mention everyone on this side of the ocean would be helping them.  even if they did lose, the aiel could just retreat into the waste, and the seanchan could never get them.  i dont think that allowing the seanchan to make damane out of everyone who can channel would go over well, especially when the Aes Sedai and the Ashaman make a circle of 73 (is that right) or something like that and clean the world of the seanchan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

all the characters have flaws. that's the point in RJ's story. people don't like gawyne, perrin, elayne, and others because they feel that their flaws are bad things. everybody has flaws and you have to overcome them. wot is a story about overcoming your own flaws, not a story about being perfect.

 

 

Sure, the characters are flawed, that's what makes for an interesting story.  It's just that so many of the central characters are borderline unlikeable - and I'm talking about the "good guys".  I find myself wanting to skip through entire chapters. 

 

TGS is an improvement.  We did see some resolution to the White Tower saga.  But here we are, near the conclusion of an epic series, and I still can't point to anything positive accomplished by the vaunted AS.  Have they stabilized any kingdoms?  Have they kept back the Seanchan armies?  Have they fed any of the starving masses?  Have they lent aid to the Dragon Reborn (as a group)?  What exactly have they done for the cause of the Light?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't know if anyones come up with this one yet.

 

A couple of books back Moridin used the True Power.

Rand and Moridin seem to share a connection.

Rand was able to access the True Power to destroy the domination band via this link to Moridin

Lews Therin told Rand his mistake was to link the seal on the DO's thomb to Saidin.

This time Rand will link the seal to the True Power, the DO's own.

The DO's backlash will taint the True Power and the DO will rot an effectively cause his own defeat.

However if Rand wins the pattern continues, suggesting a new DO will be required to rise.......Fain.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Well I find it worrisome for a much more mundane reason.  Truth be told, I've never really liked Egwene, and the last thing the story needs, IMHO, is more power for Egwene (not to mention the Dragon on the receiving end of another witchslap).  Honestly, if Sanderson can just see it in his heart to start the last battle with all the AS leashed by the Seanchan (except for maybe Nynaeve and a couple of others), I'd be the happiest reader this side of the Spine of the World.  Not the Kin, mind you, just the AS.  They bug me to no end.

 

Don't forget the Windfinders. . .

 

And sure, Egwene has redeemed herself somewhat for me in the last 2 books, but if she reads Rand the riot act and makes him eat crow she'll drop to below her former low place in my estimation.

 

Oh I agree.  Her character has become a tad bit less unpleasant, but that's nothing that her reunion with that glorified Backstreet Boy Gawyn can't overcome.  If ever there were two people destined for one another...

 

I tend to agree in principle. The AS need a come-upance........soon. Cadsuane should have been run off - she's annoying. With all of Egwene's new found tolerance she still thinks Rand needs to be led around by the AS. I wish she'd pull her head in. Min needs to tell her like she did Cadsuane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TGS is an improvement.  We did see some resolution to the White Tower saga.  But here we are, near the conclusion of an epic series, and I still can't point to anything positive accomplished by the vaunted AS.  Have they stabilized any kingdoms?  Have they kept back the Seanchan armies?  Have they fed any of the starving masses?  Have they lent aid to the Dragon Reborn (as a group)?  What exactly have they done for the cause of the Light?

The only real thing the AS have done for the light is the clearing out of the Black Ajah from their own ranks. Aside from that, meh. Still they were ruled by a paranoid and power-mad leader, so perhaps things will be different in ToM. Maybe (and it's a very, very big maybe), Egwene will remember that Aes Sedai are supposed to be servants of all and they will actually help with things like feeding the hungry, instead of scheming for their own selfish ends. The greens and blues could go to the last battle and the rest could help out whoever was left behind. This might redeem the AS for their arrogance in the last 12 books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In truth, I believe that the Aes Sedai have accomplished almost nothing over the years. The world fears and hates them for the most part- woith the exception of the Borderlands. How do you go a thousand years and not improve your relationship with the world around you? Morons!!! The only AS who really did things to improve the world, or so it seems were Siuan and Moiraine and Verin before the wonder girls showed up. And, even worse- those three acted against every important law and custom in order to do what they did!!!!! These women are worse than useless and deserve to be collared if you ask me.

 

It seems that the true movers and shakers over the years has been the Black Ajah. They seem to be the ones who accomplished all the important stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your theory about Rand surrendering to the Seanchan is fascinating. To be honest, it would be a very practical solution to a great many problems. Provided Tuon can be convinced to allow the marathdamane to run about free until the Shadow is defeated, I think it would work very well. Downside? Egwene will roast Rand on a spit for that decision- which would fill Elaida's Foretelling about him knowing the anger of the Amyrlin. The beginning of the next age will be a tale told in blood just like this age.

 

That's true, it would fulfill a lot of prophecies as well. Also, think about this. Who are two people in all Randland that are most likely to be able to get Rand to do something he probably doesn't want to do? Or at least, lead him to the realization that it's the right thing to do? In regards to the Seanchan, I think one would be Mat, and in regards to everything else in the world, the other would be Moiraine. You could even throw Thom into that mix. Obviously you see the connection I'm trying to make. They'll all likely be together soon. I say they are thrown straight from Finnland to Ebou Dar in the middle of another meeting between Rand and Fortuona. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most likely, the DO will be resealed using either Callandor or Fain's dagger as the 'buffer' between the OP and the DO.  The only way the DO could even theoretically be 'killed' would appear to be with Fain's dagger, because the taint is representative of the DO's evil and the taint was canceled out by Shadar Logoth, the same evil as Fain's dagger.  I personally think the DO is a Dark God and essentially can't die, and that cutting him off from the Pattern through a 'proper' resealing of the Bore would have the same effect.  'Proper' in this case meaning that there wouldn't even be that 'thin' area of the Pattern where Mierin detected the DO's prison back in the Age of Legends in the first place, leading to the Bore drilling.

 

I like the idea of the Pattern breaking - without being remade by the DO.  Unless you believe Moridin's interpretation that the DO wants to annihilate reality altogether, the DO would presumably want to create an inverse Pattern would that conform to his 'vision', and the Creator has his own Pattern he wants followed.  If the DO can be 'killed' or severed from the Pattern entirely, I can see the last Paragraph RJ would have written...  something to do with a wind flowing to an unknown future, with language different than the whole "there are no beginnings or endings to the turning of the wheel" language -- i.e., this would actually be a beginning of something new.  Perhaps once the DO is fully severed from the Pattern, the Creator himself will allow the Pattern to dissolve and leave humanity to their own devices.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

stuff the AS have accomplished and/or had a guiding hand in (same thing for them) so far:

 

Finding the dragon, and two other T'averen, before the shadow and helping to keep them safe.

Directing said T'averen to the eye of the world to stop the forsaken from using it

recovering the Horn of Valere from said location.

Balefiring one of the forsaken, so that the dragon reborn could claim callandor

Sending one of the forsaken into finland, to save the dragon reborn

helping in the defence of the two rivers from being overrun by blackfolk

Recovering the bowl of winds and saving the weather

helped cleanse saidin as well as protect the dragon and the AS doing it from the forsaken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

stuff the AS have accomplished and/or had a guiding hand in (same thing for them) so far:

 

Finding the dragon, and two other T'averen, before the shadow and helping to keep them safe.

Directing said T'averen to the eye of the world to stop the forsaken from using it

recovering the Horn of Valere from said location.

Balefiring one of the forsaken, so that the dragon reborn could claim callandor

Sending one of the forsaken into finland, to save the dragon reborn

helping in the defence of the two rivers from being overrun by blackfolk

Recovering the bowl of winds and saving the weather

helped cleanse saidin as well as protect the dragon and the AS doing it from the forsaken.

 

These are accomplishments by individual AS or trainees (who haven't even been approved as real AS by the entire White Tower) who acted without authorization or sanction of Tar Valn.  Basically, to get things done, one has to defy the White Tower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone mentioned "cumupances". I think nearly all the major factions need it:

 

Seanchan - need to end the slavery deal with channelers

AS - need to get back to service rather than power. Egwene not the least.

Aiel - need to get over their pride and arrogance

 

I think the end is going to involve each of these groups realizing that humility, kindness, service to your fellow man is what will defeat Dark. Rand has taken the first few steps down that road with Veins of Gold - he realized that using his immense power as a whip to crack will not work, that love is the key. IMO, Rand will bring all the major groups together by demonstrating his humility.

 

As a side issue, I beleive the end will involve the DO sealed away, and the loss of the one power for all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that the AS are in for a headcheck.  The ONLY AS in this series to realize how insignificant a reputation was Moiraine.  She realized Rand couldn't be bullied or manipulated so she did what all the AS in the world should do and provide guidance and advice without the strings attached.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I agree with Mortimer there on the aftermath of TG including no OP or TP or any such. It's reminding me of the 'His Dark Materials' trilogy, actually, and I'm fairly sure I've met it in lots of other fantasy, the transition from a world with magic in the hands of the few, with variable results, to no magic and a more level playing field for all.

 

The only kind of fair societies in Randland, really, are the Aiel and the Tinkers, where channeling doesn't count for much at all.

Seanchan are effectively one side of the scales, enslaving channelers, while the AS have shown quite clearly how unsuitable strength in the Power is to be a criterion for leadership on the other.

 

As an alternative to a no power society, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some change in the metaphysical scenario here that severely restricts the possibilities/limits of the power. Eg, no longer being able to Travel because of its interaction (ripping/creating likeness) with the Pattern. I had thought of another ability/action that seemed obvious for restriction, can't think of it now though.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other one you are thinking of is Balefire I think- as that is detrimental to the pattern- so much so that Morridin tells Rand how to kill the Forsaken for good, just to get him to use it more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a thought, but could Rands (And others) use of Balefire be causeing some of the oddities in Randland?

 

Cities where people die nightly, and wake up like nothing happened? Ghost appearing, etc. People being consumed by bugs or fire randomly sounds like the Darkones touch - the dead seen walking and towns vanishing? That seems a little simplistic for the Dark One to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a thought, but could Rands (And others) use of Balefire be causeing some of the oddities in Randland?

 

Cities where people die nightly, and wake up like nothing happened? Ghost appearing, etc. People being consumed by bugs or fire randomly sounds like the Darkones touch - the dead seen walking and towns vanishing? That seems a little simplistic for the Dark One to me.

 

I've wondered about that village.  Best thing I've come up with, for me, is that the DOs touch, or a bubble of evil (whatever) landed on the village, driving them insane.  However, the pattern, attempting to correct this violation, built up pressure against the "bubble".  When the bubble bursts, the pattern reset itself in the area (also bringing the bubble back into existance) and thus starting the cycle over again.  Or, it could just be a nasty curse.  /shrugs

One thing I'm sure of, Rand's massive use of balefire in this past book certainly did NOT help the pattern's integrity or strength.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the DO will be killed, just sealed away again.

 

This is how I interpret the Wheel cosmology.

 

As long as you get one single revolution, i.e. 7 Ages, without the Dark One breaking free, then the Pattern's loop is closed and the DO never breaks free.

 

However, because of memory fading to myth and vanishing, etc, THERE IS NO WAY OF KNOWING at any particular point of the turning WHETHER OR NOT THE DO will win or not in either this Age of the next six. You have to live it to realize the inevitable, or in other words the important things are all preordained (DO won't break free) - but unknowable to beings within Time.

 

Unless Rand and Fortuona can come up with a truce in the 1st couple chapters i think arad domon will be seanchan controlled very soon.  It would make sense given the west-south, north-east finn prophecy, arad domon is about as west as u can get in Randland.

 

i do agree that rand has a few more loose ends to tie up, notably the Black tower, a bit premature of me to say that he's done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These are accomplishments by individual AS or trainees (who haven't even been approved as real AS by the entire White Tower) who acted without authorization or sanction of Tar Valn.  Basically, to get things done, one has to defy the White Tower.

 

That is some heavy backtracking there. What does it matter to the reputation of the Aes Sedau if it is 'individual Aes Sedai' who did it.

 

Those are accomplishments that will be noted 10-20 years down the line as 'Aes Sedai work' which is what they are reputed and notorious for. And much of that was accomplished following orders of the Amyrlin Seat (Siuan or Egwene). It's hardly surprising less was accomplished through Elaida's machinations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...