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Elaida (Full Spoilers)


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The adam (for saidar channelers) controls whether or not the damane can hold/embrace saidar.

The adam I take cannot prevent the damane from doing certain weaves; though the suldam can cause pain if the damane does a different weave than the desired one.

 

The Suldam can block the Damane from touching the Source. (Both TGH - the Egwene as damane scenes, and KoD- Tuon with Joline reference this). So, she can definitely prevent the damane doing any weaves at all.

 

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The adam (for saidar channelers) controls whether or not the damane can hold/embrace saidar.

The adam I take cannot prevent the damane from doing certain weaves; though the suldam can cause pain if the damane does a different weave than the desired one.

The Suldam can block the Damane from touching the Source. (Both TGH - the Egwene as damane scenes, and KoD- Tuon with Joline reference this). So, she can definitely prevent the damane doing any weaves at all.

Your last comment I implied in my first comment.

 

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The adam (for saidar channelers) controls whether or not the damane can hold/embrace saidar.

The adam I take cannot prevent the damane from doing certain weaves; though the suldam can cause pain if the damane does a different weave than the desired one.

The Suldam can block the Damane from touching the Source. (Both TGH - the Egwene as damane scenes, and KoD- Tuon with Joline reference this). So, she can definitely prevent the damane doing any weaves at all.

Your last comment I implied in my first comment.

True. But your second sentence contradicts your first.

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Don't know if this has been covered yet--don't have time to read all the posts--but I'm pretty sure the Seanchan are going to break Elaida completely when they interrogate her about the secret weapon they think the Aes Sedai have. Aes Sedai in general are easy to break, and the Seanchan have experience with the necessary procedures.

 

Also, Thom still needs to get revenge for Owyn, and Elaida was part of the crew that gentled him. I imagine Tuon could help him with that after he and Mat get back with Moiraine from the Tower of Ghenjei.

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The adam (for saidar channelers) controls whether or not the damane can hold/embrace saidar.

The adam I take cannot prevent the damane from doing certain weaves; though the suldam can cause pain if the damane does a different weave than the desired one.

The Suldam can block the Damane from touching the Source. (Both TGH - the Egwene as damane scenes, and KoD- Tuon with Joline reference this). So, she can definitely prevent the damane doing any weaves at all.

Your last comment I implied in my first comment.

True. But your second sentence contradicts your first.

I meant when the damane is allowed to channel when I posted the second sentence.

I shall soon edit the comment.

 

 

Don't know if this has been covered yet--don't have time to read all the posts--but I'm pretty sure the Seanchan are going to break Elaida completely when they interrogate her about the secret weapon they think the Aes Sedai have. Aes Sedai in general are easy to break, and the Seanchan have experience with the necessary procedures.

Elaida would not have any idea about it; nor any of the other Aes Sedia they captured since none of them would have been near Ebou Dar when it happened.

The people for the Seanchan to ask would be these: Nynaeve, Elayne, the Kin, Elayne's Windfinders.  If they ask any of them, they would likely discover it was not a weapon.

 

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What if it is necessary for Elaida to teach the Seanchan Traveling?  This way Tuon can bring stability back to Seandar.  Not only this, but do you remember the Seanchan prophecy that the Dragon Reborn must knell before the Crystal Throne?  I always thought this prophecy was fake, but what if it is not.  We have heard other Seanchan prophecies that are real.  

 

"The Crystal Throne itself is a great ter'angreal that causes anyone who approaches it to feel immense awe and wonder" The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time.  The next book is supposed to be about the Seanchan and Rand's meeting with Tuon did not go well, to say the least.  What if the only way Tuon will meet with Rand again is while she is sitting on the Crystal Throne.  Which comes back to Elaida teaching the Seanchan Traveling.

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The Crystal Throne has a Compulsion thermostat on the underside.

Rand being a tall guy has to kneel in order to switch it on.

Of course, since he's holding saidin, he's immune to the compulsion as well.

Then he'll sit on the CT, (after kneeling in front of it) and Tuon will be murderously angry because it's her throne.

But she'll also be Compelled to make the alliance he wants.

All the relevant prophesies and viewings will thus be fulfilled.

 

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The Crystal Throne has a Compulsion thermostat on the underside.

Rand being a tall guy has to kneel in order to switch it on.

Of course, since he's holding saidin, he's immune to the compulsion as well.

Then he'll sit on the CT, (after kneeling in front of it) and Tuon will be murderously angry because it's her throne.

But she'll also be Compelled to make the alliance he wants.

All the relevant prophesies and viewings will thus be fulfilled.

 

 

Snap! Nice theory Mr. Sharaman. :)

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People keep assuming that Elaida will have some free reign or something because of who she was, but she is a damane now.  The sul'dam she will link with will train her and the adam will pacify her until she is unable to resist the idea that she is free or will be free. 

 

Remember that Teslyn, before she was freed, told Matt that she could feel herself starting to surrender to the adam.  She didn't want to, but she couldn't help herself.  Given time, Teslyn would have become just as cooperative a damane as Mylen is now.  Completely given over to the adam.

 

Elaida will still be bound by the Three Oaths, but after she is pacified what truths will the sul'dam be able to convince her of?  Remember that the Oaths work in the context of what the Aes Sedai believes.  If the sul'dam convince her that anything the sul'dam fights is a real danger to the damane then she will be able to channel, thinking it is a real threat to her life.

 

Also, since Elaida (unless she is rescued quickly - it didn't seem to take long for Mylen to give over to the adam...months maybe?) will be truly a damane, any weave she knows including Traveling would be something she would offer up.  The Aes Sedai damane gave them Healing, even though the Seanchan thought being touched by the One Power at all...even for Healing...was dirty.

 

So...I think Elaida either needs to be rescued or her knowledge of the White Tower and its workings will be forfeited to the Seanchan.  Elaida the damane is a dangerous character.

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I'm sure Suffa will be a good damane. She'll tell the Seanchan the weaves for Travelling and fortell a  few things and be petted and heart-friended all she wants. By now, Seanchan know that former AS can't kill or lie, etc., and they're very good at getting them to accept their fate.

 

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I would have been happy just to see her serving a penance for the rest of her life.  Like growing One Power modified food to solve the starvation in the aftermath of wars.

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The Crystal Throne has a Compulsion thermostat on the underside.

Rand being a tall guy has to kneel in order to switch it on.

Of course, since he's holding saidin, he's immune to the compulsion as well.

Then he'll sit on the CT, (after kneeling in front of it) and Tuon will be murderously angry because it's her throne.

But she'll also be Compelled to make the alliance he wants.

All the relevant prophesies and viewings will thus be fulfilled.

 

 

Snap! Nice theory Mr. Sharaman. :)

 

Yes, very clever.  Not

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I for one can't wait to see Elaida's training and her assistance with the continued humbling of the White Tower.  I really hate the White Tower for their attitude of "being the best at everything simply because they are Aes Sedai", using the fact that they wield a power with makes them dominant over others as proof of this (for example, the rankings of Aes Sedai based on strength, this would be like elected presidents based on shoe size) and well  as the continuous idea that the whole world revolves around the White Tower and that everything in the world must for hte good of the world. 

 

For me this was most exemplified by the statement while the Salidar Tower was marching towards Murandy and one Aes Sedai overheard that the Bowl of the Winds had been used with the Sea Folk and exclamed something along the lines of, "How can a Wilder think to know more about the weather than Aes Sedai."  (not exact quote.)

 

It will be delightful to see the Seanchan continue the humbling that has already started.

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People keep assuming that Elaida will have some free reign or something because of who she was, but she is a damane now.  The sul'dam she will link with will train her and the adam will pacify her until she is unable to resist the idea that she is free or will be free. 

 

Remember that Teslyn, before she was freed, told Matt that she could feel herself starting to surrender to the adam.  She didn't want to, but she couldn't help herself.  Given time, Teslyn would have become just as cooperative a damane as Mylen is now.  Completely given over to the adam.

 

Remember how easily that Eladia submitted to Alviarin when she was blackmailing Eladia.  Didn't really fight all that much before her whole "I will do as I am told" thing.  As the most powerful woman in the world, Eladia allowed herself to be commanded and ordered with barely any fight.  I see her breaking to the adam much more easily than Teslyn did.  Teslyn held out for months before 'becoming' Mylen, I see Eladia accepting her place as Suffa happening in a few weeks if not days.

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People keep assuming that Elaida will have some free reign or something because of who she was, but she is a damane now.  The sul'dam she will link with will train her and the adam will pacify her until she is unable to resist the idea that she is free or will be free. 

 

Remember that Teslyn, before she was freed, told Matt that she could feel herself starting to surrender to the adam.  She didn't want to, but she couldn't help herself.  Given time, Teslyn would have become just as cooperative a damane as Mylen is now.  Completely given over to the adam.

 

Remember how easily that Eladia submitted to Alviarin when she was blackmailing Eladia.  Didn't really fight all that much before her whole "I will do as I am told" thing.  As the most powerful woman in the world, Eladia allowed herself to be commanded and ordered with barely any fight.  I see her breaking to the adam much more easily than Teslyn did.  Teslyn held out for months before 'becoming' Mylen, I see Eladia accepting her place as Suffa happening in a few weeks if not days.

 

Teslyn was Tessi. Mylen was Sheriane or some such.

Agree that Elaida is a brittle personality who will break fast.

 

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.  Not only this, but do you remember the Seanchan prophecy that the Dragon Reborn must knell before the Crystal Throne?  I always thought this prophecy was fake, but what if it is not.  We have heard other Seanchan prophecies that are real.  

 

 

 

It's a corrupted prophecy, the self admitted handiwork of Ishmael/Moridin.  The pure form states that the Crystal Throne(Fortuana} must kneel before the Dragon Reborn.

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The "Pure form" has no mention of Rand kneeling at the Crystal Throne or vice-versa.

He has to "bind the Nine Moons" - which doesn't necessarily mean she kneels to him.

"The Prophecies say I have to bind the nine moons to me. I only understood what that meant a few days ago. As soon as Bashere returns, I'll know when and where I'm to meet the Daughter of the Nine Moons. The only question now is how do I bind her, and she'll have to answer that."

- KoD, News for the Dragon

The Seanchan version:

"The Prophecies of the Dragon had been known in Seanchan even before Luthair Paendrag began the Consolidation. In corrupted form, it was said, much different from the pure version Luthair Paendrag brought. Miraj had seen several volumes of The Karaethon Cycle printed in these lands, and they were corrupted too - not one of them mentioned him serving the Crystal Throne! - but the Prophecies held men's minds and hearts still."

TPOD, A Time for Iron

 

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The "Pure form" has no mention of Rand kneeling at the Crystal Throne or vice-versa.

He has to "bind the Nine Moons" - which doesn't necessarily mean she kneels to him.

"The Prophecies say I have to bind the nine moons to me. I only understood what that meant a few days ago. As soon as Bashere returns, I'll know when and where I'm to meet the Daughter of the Nine Moons. The only question now is how do I bind her, and she'll have to answer that."

- KoD, News for the Dragon

The Seanchan version:

"The Prophecies of the Dragon had been known in Seanchan even before Luthair Paendrag began the Consolidation. In corrupted form, it was said, much different from the pure version Luthair Paendrag brought. Miraj had seen several volumes of The Karaethon Cycle printed in these lands, and they were corrupted too - not one of them mentioned him serving the Crystal Throne! - but the Prophecies held men's minds and hearts still."

TPOD, A Time for Iron

 

 

IMO the only reason Tuon didn't agree with Rand at this previous meeting is because she was not yet Empress. The prophecies say he will bind the Nine Moons to him, not the Daughter of The Nine Moons. I have a feeling the next meeting they have will be Fortuona caving on certain parts of the next negotiating session she'll have with Rand.

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Yep, Tuon will go all Lady Muck on him, bein as she is the Empress (of a now obliterated empire, but still :) ),

=> she believes she is the pre-eminent personage in existence right now. Unless, of course, her Horn soundin' hubby comes home with the music maker, and Artur Hawkwing himself tells her to behave, that the Dragon kneels to no one.

 

Wouldn't that be just the coolest scene EVER??? She'd swallow her tongue.

 

I do think, tho, that Hawkwing is the only only only person who might manage to convince her Rand's not beneath her.

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Yep, Tuon will go all Lady Muck on him, bein as she is the Empress (of a now obliterated empire, but still :) ),

=> she believes she is the pre-eminent personage in existence right now. Unless, of course, her Horn soundin' hubby comes home with the music maker, and Artur Hawkwing himself tells her to behave, that the Dragon kneels to no one.

 

Wouldn't that be just the coolest scene EVER??? She'd swallow her tongue.

 

I do think, tho, that Hawkwing is the only only only person who might manage to convince her Rand's not beneath her.

that would be pretty sweet.

is there a quote that says the raken that Elaida was on got away? I remember egwene was striking at them as they fled

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Yep, Tuon will go all Lady Muck on him, bein as she is the Empress (of a now obliterated empire, but still :) ),

=> she believes she is the pre-eminent personage in existence right now. Unless, of course, her Horn soundin' hubby comes home with the music maker, and Artur Hawkwing himself tells her to behave, that the Dragon kneels to no one.

 

Wouldn't that be just the coolest scene EVER??? She'd swallow her tongue.

 

I do think, tho, that Hawkwing is the only only only person who might manage to convince her Rand's not beneath her.

that would be pretty sweet.

is there a quote that says the raken that Elaida was on got away? I remember egwene was striking at them as they fled

 

Yeah she got away. It sucks that she didn't kick it, but she got away.

 

And in regards to Hawkwing himself taking Fortuona downa peg or 2, that would be cool. IF it were to happen. But I think she needed to become Empress before Rand could work his Mojo-Juju on her. And it is true, the Dragon kneels to no one. He literally is the most pivotal and powerful human in existence.

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Amen to that, if all the kings, queens, empresses, dukes, duchess, lords, ladies, and etc need to realize this and work with him.  Imagine a world where men and women communicated enough to actually understand most of the situation?  Things might actually get done in Randland.

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Amen to that, if all the kings, queens, empresses, dukes, duchess, lords, ladies, and etc need to realize this and work with him.  Imagine a world where men and women communicated enough to actually understand most of the situation?  Things might actually get done in Randland.

 

Yeah really. Instead of "I'm right, and you suck!" and "No, I'm right and you suck!" maybe they might be able to get past all that crap, and give the DO a swift kick to the crotch! But as we all know humans will do what they want that's best for them and typically not for the greater good. As we've seen on many occasions in the books this is a huge  problem in Randland.

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Amen to that, if all the kings, queens, empresses, dukes, duchess, lords, ladies, and etc need to realize this and work with him.  Imagine a world where men and women communicated enough to actually understand most of the situation?  Things might actually get done in Randland.

 

Yeah really. Instead of "I'm right, and you suck!" and "No, I'm right and you suck!" maybe they might be able to get past all that crap, and give the DO a swift kick to the crotch! But as we all know humans will do what they want that's best for them and typically not for the greater good. As we've seen on many occasions in the books this is a huge  problem in Randland.

And in our world too, with respect to climate change, though maybe I shouldn't get political here.

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Amen to that, if all the kings, queens, empresses, dukes, duchess, lords, ladies, and etc need to realize this and work with him.  Imagine a world where men and women communicated enough to actually understand most of the situation?  Things might actually get done in Randland.

 

But could you imagine how dull that would make the series?  :-\

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