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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Questions/Theories Answered or New Tidbits Added (Full Book Spoilers)


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no bodyswap.

 

all the clues pointed to a merger or something. i don't like merger anymore than bodyswap..but its slightly less distasteful and cliched.

 

oh i guess cadsuane's teach him to cry has been fulfilled kinda. Rand cried when he tried killing Min. sheriam's halo of fail too, but i think someone got that already.

 

egwene as amyrlin Duh...

ummmm....that's it really. I guess 'is Graendal really dead?' will repalce 'who killed Asmodean?' for a while. Followed by is Amsodean alive?

 

Maybe, just maybe, Cadsuane is the one who follows after. She holds Callandor now (doesn't she? can't remember). But it doesn't have to be a man - linking always it to be a circle or even a woman.

 

and I repeat - no bodyswap.

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Also, bodyswap is looking unlikely thank the Light.  Not sure how I feel about the possibility of a merge though.  I don't think Veins of Gold rules it out.  I just want Rand to stay Rand dammit.

 

What part made you think it was looking unlikely? I'm actually doing an overhall on the bodyswap based on the increased likelyhood following tGS. But that'll be a while in coming so lets not get distracted--you can yell at me for why its not more likely when I post.  ;D

 

That being said merge is once more proven unlikely--we see the link grow to such strength that it pulls Rand's soul to meeting Moridin's in TAR through his wardings, yet they remain utterly distinct from each other. Whatever the power or nature of the conection between them it is not causing them to merge.

 

Remember when Narishma actually gets the sword, he claims that Rand didn't tell him about all the weaves protecting it or something like that (not sure which book/page).  I think this is a clue that someone else drew out Callandor before Narishma, and that that is the person who shall follow after.

 

He says Rand didn't tell him all the details and that it nearly killed him to get the blade.

 

Well I'm looking at it through my lens and you're looking at it through yours.  I seriously hope neither a swap nor a merge happens, but Rand wearing red and black a lot and that aura of darkness makes it look like something funky is going to happen.  I see a merge as more likely but swap is by no means ruled out.

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Also, during my reread I noticed Rand said he went into Tel'aran'rhiod to change and invert the weaves surrounding Callandor once he learned inversion from Asmodean.  That may have something to do with why he gave Narishma the wrong info as I think any effect Rand could have on the real world from Tel'aran'rhiod would be dubious if not nonexistent.

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all the clues pointed to a merger or something. i don't like merger anymore than bodyswap..but its slightly less distasteful and cliched.

 

It might be less distasteful, but the clues actually point away from a merger. Rather solidly.

 

Right, and yet Rand is confident that he did give him all the details.

 

Rand was dismissive of his complaints more than confident of his wrongness. The reaction of a man not wanting to admit he'd made a mistake.

 

Well I'm looking at it through my lens and you're looking at it through yours.  I seriously hope neither a swap nor a merge happens, but Rand wearing red and black a lot and that aura of darkness makes it look like something funky is going to happen.  I see a merge as more likely but swap is by no means ruled out.

 

Yes, but you said 'the bodyswap doesn't look likely'... what was the basis of that? The comment directly implied some event that you thought suggested against the bodyswap. I'm just curious as to what that is.

 

For that matter looking through lenses is all fine and well, but saying you see the merger as more likely again suggest you thought there were specifics supporting it--or at least leaning the argument in that direction. I don't see how thats viable given the proof aquired in tGS that their souls, even in pure soul-state, remain absolutely distinct from each other. So yeah again I was just curious.

 

Or did you simply mean you thought it was more desirable? No problem with that at all--lenses and such, as you said. I personally don't like the idea of a bodyswap either--I just think it's the most likely by a significant distance based on the specifics established in the text.

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all the clues pointed to a merger or something. i don't like merger anymore than bodyswap..but its slightly less distasteful and cliched.

 

It might be less distasteful, but the clues actually point away from a merger. Rather solidly.

 

Right, and yet Rand is confident that he did give him all the details.

 

Rand was dismissive of his complaints more than confident of his wrongness. The reaction of a man not wanting to admit he'd made a mistake.

 

Well I'm looking at it through my lens and you're looking at it through yours.  I seriously hope neither a swap nor a merge happens, but Rand wearing red and black a lot and that aura of darkness makes it look like something funky is going to happen.  I see a merge as more likely but swap is by no means ruled out.

 

Yes, but you said 'the bodyswap doesn't look likely'... what was the basis of that? The comment directly implied some event that you thought suggested against the bodyswap. I'm just curious as to what that is.

 

For that matter looking through lenses is all fine and well, but saying you see the merger as more likely again suggest you thought there were specifics supporting it--or at least leaning the argument in that direction. I don't see how thats viable given the proof aquired in tGS that their souls, even in pure soul-state, remain absolutely distinct from each other. So yeah again I was just curious.

 

Or did you simply mean you thought it was more desirable? No problem with that at all--lenses and such, as you said. I personally don't like the idea of a bodyswap either--I just think it's the most likely by a significant distance based on the specifics established in the text.

 

They seem to be taking on characteristics of each other which to me suggests a merge but I'm by no means ruling out a swap.  If their souls are distinct even in pure form or whatever then why are the two men becoming more and more similar?  Also, Min's viewing describes a merge and if I had to guess I would say Rand's reintegration with LTT did not fulfill that viewing.  In the end we're talking about similar phenomena so a lot of them share the same clues.  I just think all the similarities seem mergelike and not swaplike but it's more of a gut feeling than any logical argument.

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what do people think about the new bit of prophesy that Min unearthed about Callandor that the three need to be one. Could be the three people holding the sword tha is not a sword - 2 woman one man (other discussions already think Elyene and Avi will be the ones - but since they both might be pregnant by the time TG comes - I think that is unlikely)I think it might be Nyn and Egwene - back to the original 5 Two river folks.

 

Or ... could it have to do with his three "wives" having to be one and agree on something - Min can not channel but she has bonded him and Avi and Elyene have kind of bonded each other ... I know it is way out there but somehow the whole 3 wives thing should play a role at some point.

 

I don't think it is Rand, LLT and Moridin - to obvious

 

Anajon

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Remember when Narishma actually gets the sword, he claims that Rand didn't tell him about all the weaves protecting it or something like that (not sure which book/page).  I think this is a clue that someone else drew out Callandor before Narishma, and that that is the person who shall follow after.

 

He says Rand didn't tell him all the details and that it nearly killed him to get the blade.

 

Right, and yet Rand is confident that he did give him all the details.

 

Rand Said I told you what you needed to know. Rand probally didnt want to let all his secrets out

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Also were you saying that its now certain LTT wasn't real? Coz he WAS real. A result of madness, of course, but it was his manifest personality.

And so I'm thinking that Min's viewing about the two becoming one is done? Or do we still have to deal with the Moridin/Rand link?

 

Any theories involving The Profit were put to rest, since Faile wtf Pwned him... Too awesome, he needed to be put down like old yeller...

And I was SO glad to put that storyline to rest. Faile finally did something right.

 

oh i guess cadsuane's teach him to cry has been fulfilled kinda. Rand cried when he tried killing Min. sheriam's halo of fail too, but i think someone got that already.

But how does Cadsuane get credit for making this happen? Because she didn't keep the male Adam safe enough? I don't think she's taught Rand anything except to view everything as a box.

 

what do people think about the new bit of prophesy that Min unearthed about Callandor that the three need to be one. Could be the three people holding the sword tha is not a sword - 2 woman one man (other discussions already think Elyene and Avi will be the ones - but since they both might be pregnant by the time TG comes - I think that is unlikely)I think it might be Nyn and Egwene - back to the original 5 Two river folks.

I was chatting with Shard about this, and I thought it would be Nynaeve and Egwene, but he thought it more likely to be Nynaeve and Moiraine. That struck me as a much better fit. Egwene and Rand have been too long apart, and the old trust isn't there anymore. I agree with Shard that Egwene would do well to go and support Lan's position.

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The three becoming one could have something to do with Rand, Mat and Perrin. They have some freaky bond which we don't really know anything about it. It also doesn't mention that the sword is Callandor maybe it's his new sword Justice?

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When i started reading i assumed that they were parts of the dragon reborn, i later dismissed this, however on closer examination, i started thinking that maybe this is true in a way.

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Any theories involving The Profit were put to rest, since Faile wtf Pwned him... Too awesome, he needed to be put down like old yeller...
No, theories relating to what he might do in the future were laid to rest. Theories about his actions to that point (like why the AS were meeting with him) weren't.
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oh i guess cadsuane's teach him to cry has been fulfilled kinda. Rand cried when he tried killing Min. sheriam's halo of fail too, but i think someone got that already.

But how does Cadsuane get credit for making this happen? Because she didn't keep the male Adam safe enough? I don't think she's taught Rand anything except to view everything as a box.

 

 

She was the one who had the idea to go get Tam and bring him together with Rand. I'm assuming Tam is the vital person with Perrin she talked to Nynaeve about.

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Also were you saying that its now certain LTT wasn't real? Coz he WAS real. A result of madness, of course, but it was his manifest personality.

And so I'm thinking that Min's viewing about the two becoming one is done? Or do we still have to deal with the Moridin/Rand link?

 

 

Yes we still have to deal with the Rand/Moridin link.

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I just wanted to ask, is there any evidence that what Cadsuane wanted to teach Rand is the same as what she will teach Rand and the Asha'man?

 

I'm thinking that lesson has yet to come.  And maybe it's just another interesting bit about Saidin she's uncovered over the years.  I'm wagering the Wise Ones will consider Cadsuane a success, though - she did push him far enough to get him to reflect, and I doubt she'll reveal that wasn't her intention.  I doubt any of them know just how close she came to ending the world.

 

I'd like some more clarification on Egwene's dreams.  Unfortunately, I don't remember much of it myself, but Egwene dreams of the Seanchan attacking the Tower.  That has been fulfilled.  She also dreams of a Seanchan woman saving her from a high-up place.  Is this high-up place the White Tower as well?  Was it part of the same dream as the Seanchan attack?

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I don't think the Rand/Moridin Bodyswap theory will be able to be thrown out yet.  This book only strengthened the show of how connected the two are getting and how easily they might be able to swap things out.  After all, Rand started channeling the True Power and folks are seeing darkness around him.  You can only channel TP if your granted special permission and Moridin was the only one granted this. Secondly, the Aura of darkness was something distinctive of Moridin. 

 

On the "Three become One" I think it refers either to the following, or to them all:

 

1. Elayne+Aviendha+Rand wielding the sword

2. The three Tave'ren coming together

3. OR the three powers becoming connected together to seal the DO's prison:  Sadin + Sadar + True Power becoming ONE seal on the prison.

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On the "Three become One" I think it refers either to the following, or to them all:

 

1. Elayne+Aviendha+Rand wielding the sword

2. The three Tave'ren coming together

3. OR the three powers becoming connected together to seal the DO's prison:  Sadin + Sadar + True Power becoming ONE seal on the prison.

 

I like 2 & 3, I don't see Elayne participating because of the babes, I favor N & Eg when the sword is used.

 

2 would be very interesting, the three of them maybe being so Tave`ren they can reweave the pattern over the bore.

 

3 would be interesting, you would have Rand plus 2 gals with the sword, plus Moridin using the TP? Redeeming Moridin would be a twist given Moridin's attempts to turn rand when he was Elan/Ish. The Dark One controls the TP, but nothing to my knowledge has so far said it is his, e.g. it could just be trapped with but distinct from him.

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what do people think about the new bit of prophesy that Min unearthed about Callandor that the three need to be one. Could be the three people holding the sword tha is not a sword - 2 woman one man (other discussions already think Elyene and Avi will be the ones - but since they both might be pregnant by the time TG comes - I think that is unlikely)

 

I'm thinking Rand + Moiraine + ?? will be the circle that uses Callandor to either beat the DO or reseal the DO (pre-bore sealing).

 

Given the hints in the book that he didn't have any female Aes Sedai with him and failed (Hundred Companions), and that the "pure power" plan of the other faction of that time (the Choedan Kal's) are not viable anymore I see this as the solution.

 

I'm adding Moiraine into the mix because of Min's viewing that he HAD to have her there, or he would fail - he's already come to terms with his madness so it can't that she'll help with (a long time theory of mine).

 

Pretty weak, but it's what I got. :)

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