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JenniferL

Which Prophecies Were Fufilled In This Book? (spoilers, natch)

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There could be the fact that Rand fulfills even a changed prophecy by kneeling to the Crystal Throne expressing his sorrow for trying to force them to peace. It could also mean that he kneels in pain during some sort of suffering or other forced measure. It does not say he must swear allegiance or submit himself to it, just that he must kneel to the Crystal Throne before TG arrives.

 

"The Dragon Reborn must kneel before the Crystal Throne before Tarmon Gai'don, or all is lost."

 

Maybe he drops something and kneels to pick it up even. Or maybe he notices a scuff on his boots and kneels down to kinda fix it because he is bored listening to "Fortuona" rant on about how the Seanchan should be allowed to slap an a'dam on every channeler male or female.

 

I can already see how it'll happen. Mat will coat Tuon's throne room with a thick layer of floor wax as a practical joke right before Rand comes to visit and then Rand will slip and fall.  :D

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He may just kneel for appearance sake, with the understanding that the Prince of Ravens (Mat) will be put in charge of the combined armies.

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Could he, perhaps, "bind" the Nine Moons by putting Tuon/Fortuona in an a'dam? We know that she can channel, and the damane are the sticking point between the Seachan and the people of Randland. Perhaps if she experiences what it is like to be on a leash, she will be more lenient/tolerant of marath'damane.

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Could he, perhaps, "bind" the Nine Moons by putting Tuon/Fortuona in an a'dam? We know that she can channel, and the damane are the sticking point between the Seachan and the people of Randland. Perhaps if she experiences what it is like to be on a leash, she will be more lenient/tolerant of marath'damane.

 

I really don't see Rand leashing women, even if only for a moment to make a point

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She could be 'bound by honor' to rand. Much like the Aiel. They commented in the book, thats the only thing the aiel and seanchan have in common, is there 'honor'.

If Tuon uses that oath with rand, she won't break it.

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Has anyone else noticed the new "Prophesy" that Fortuona thinks of in her POV. I think it was when she met Rand or later at the ceremony. It mentions the Dragon bowing to the crystal throne. All former mention of this event came from references to the Seanchan "K" Cycle. My initial thought was that this was just a corruption of the "K" cycle for a new emperor. Conquering warlords like to rewrite history and prophesy to suit their needs and vindicates their rule. After tGS my feelings have changed. Maybe the way Rand binds the Nine Moons to serve him is by bowing the Fortuna and her authority. It maybe like controling sai'dar. He must first submit to Fortuona to control her armies. Sorry about the lack of detail. I am at work and don't have my book.

First post, so excuse the lack of detail, but wasn't it mentioned in one of the earlier books(don't remember which) that Ishamael had changed the prophecy of the SEanchan, from the Seanchan would kneel to the crystal throne to that Rand would kneel to the throne.

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this may have been said already i think i know what one  prophecys means when min was talking

about the shining sword and the three powers  becoming one .i think its talking about the "one power' and rand using the three to close the hole on dark one prison ...that do you guys think.....

 

 

I maybe wrong but I always fancied the possiblilty that the Three Powers becomming One would be a Link between, Rand, Eggy and Fortuna.

 

Think about it, Holding Callador (sp) sealing the bore for good. The powers being represented three fold, The Female Saidar, The Male Saidin and The Political Power each person represents in Randland.

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I maybe wrong but I always fancied the possiblilty that the Three Powers becomming One would be a Link between, Rand, Eggy and Fortuna.

 

Think about it, Holding Callador (sp) sealing the bore for good. The powers being represented three fold, The Female Saidar, The Male Saidin and The Political Power each person represents in Randland.

 

I *sort of* agree, except with the WHO. First, I think instead of Egwene it will be Alivia. She's supposed to "help Rand die" and so she definitely has to be majorly involved. Plus, she's Seanchan so they'll be represented AND she's uber powerful. Elaida Foretold that the royal line of Andor would be a key to the last battle as well so instead of Fortuona I would say it's Elaine (and there's your political power). Either that, or just finding out that he has kids will somehow change Rand for the better (although, at the end of this book, I think he's already changed for the better). I also like this because he's bonded to Elayne and would be more willing to let her lead him in a circle. So, maybe it would be Elayne and Aviendha? hmmm...

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Elaida Foretold that the royal line of Andor would be a key to the last battle as well so instead of Fortuona I would say it's Elaine (and there's your political power). Either that, or just finding out that he has kids will somehow change Rand for the better (although, at the end of this book, I think he's already changed for the better). I also like this because he's bonded to Elayne and would be more willing to let her lead him in a circle.

 

Rand is the fulfillment of that prophesy. He is the son of Tigraine who was the daughter heir at the time of that fortelling. Galad may have a part to play as well. Now that doesn't mean that Elayne nor the rest of her family will not have a significant roll. However the Dragon Reborn is about as key to winning the last battle.

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Dark Prophecy -- "Death shall reap .... before the Great Lord comes"

 

I think this is Rand touching the TP.

 

This would fit with my theory that "Death shall sow .... before the Great Lord comes" is either the stabbing of Rand in the skies over Falme or Rand and Moridin's balefire link in Shadar Logoth or perhaps a combination of the two.

 

I think we have at most two seals remaining based on this. We have "Again the seed slays ancient wrong before the Great Lord comes" and "bodies fail before the Great Lord comes"

 

I think we have seen:

The Watchers wait on Toman's Head. --- the Corenne

The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree. --- have some rereading to do, but I would guess this has happened

Death shall sow, and summer burn, before the Great Lord comes. --- see above for part 1, part is done after the Bowl of Winds is used

Death shall reap, and bodies fail, before the Great Lord comes. --- Rand touchs TP for part 1, part 2 not complete

Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great Lord comes. --- not complete (or did we see this from Someshta in TEotW when he kills a Forsaken?)

Now the Great Lord comes. --- this is why I think the above 7 events pertain to the 7 seals on the DO's prison.

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Dark Prophecy -- "Death shall reap .... before the Great Lord comes"

 

I think this is Rand touching the TP.

 

This would fit with my theory that "Death shall sow .... before the Great Lord comes" is either the stabbing of Rand in the skies over Falme or Rand and Moridin's balefire link in Shadar Logoth or perhaps a combination of the two.

 

I think we have at most two seals remaining based on this. We have "Again the seed slays ancient wrong before the Great Lord comes" and "bodies fail before the Great Lord comes"

 

I think we have seen:

The Watchers wait on Toman's Head. --- the Corenne

The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree. --- have some rereading to do, but I would guess this has happened

Death shall sow, and summer burn, before the Great Lord comes. --- see above for part 1, part is done after the Bowl of Winds is used

Death shall reap, and bodies fail, before the Great Lord comes. --- Rand touchs TP for part 1, part 2 not complete

Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great Lord comes. --- not complete (or did we see this from Someshta in TEotW when he kills a Forsaken?)

Now the Great Lord comes. --- this is why I think the above 7 events pertain to the 7 seals on the DO's prison.

 

The first bold, I remember both a character in the books refered to as a Hammer, just can't remember which, and isn't one of the Carheinin(sp) houses represented as a tree? Or one of the nations even, for some reason I keep thinking Tanchico?

 

Second, I think that refers to the taint and Rand's body is definately already failing...

 

I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet, but when Tuon mentions in her head Seanchan prophecy about the Dragon on his own grave and weeping, that clearly references Rand at the end of the book on Dragonmount ie Lews Therin's 'Grave', right?

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Yes, I believe so.

 

 

We also see the sun shine down on him which reminded me of a Taim quote referencing this. Refering to the Dragon Reborn he said "the skies opened up in radiance to herald his coming."

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The first bold, I remember both a character in the books refered to as a Hammer, just can't remember which, and isn't one of the Carheinin(sp) houses represented as a tree? Or one of the nations even, for some reason I keep thinking Tanchico?

 

Stolen from the WoTFAQ: "The "ancient tree" refers to Tarabon, whose symbol is a tree (supposedly a branch of the Tree of Life). The "seed of the Hammer" are the Seanchan, who claim to be Luthair Paendrag's descendants (Luthair was also known as the Hammer)."

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I've seen a lot of ppl comment about the fact that Rand did not shed tears on his grave.

 

The Essanik Cycle said that he would stand on his own grave and weep.

 

Couldn't the little argument that he was having atop Dragonmount be considered weeping?  To me weeping is more of showing grief or sorrow that does not mean he has to cry.

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I would probably qualify Rand questioning the Creator and on the verge of blowing up the world close to weeping.

 

Though without actual tears, I think it's 50/50 in regards to being fulfilled.

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Are Min's viewings prophesies? The one about Siuane and Bryne was obviously fulfilled.

 

I still don't buy that Rand is THE fulfillment of Elaida's Foretelling. Maybe the twins will turn out to be the fulfillment somehow... they will show Rand that, even if he dies, he will be leaving something of himself behind. AND they're descendants of Tigraine and Morgase. I do agree that Gawyn and Galad are both also important.

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It does not say he must swear allegiance or submit himself to it, just that he must kneel to the Crystal Throne before TG arrives.
I think it being on another continent makes that a little bit awkward. Especially as Rand isn't going back to Seanchan.

 

He may just kneel for appearance sake, with the understanding that the Prince of Ravens (Mat) will be put in charge of the combined armies.

Why?

 

The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree. --- have some rereading to do, but I would guess this has happened
That's the Seanchan. Luthair Paendrag was the Hammer.
Again the seed slays ancient wrong
Seanchan again.

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Are Min's viewings prophesies? The one about Siuane and Bryne was obviously fulfilled.

 

I still don't buy that Rand is THE fulfillment of Elaida's Foretelling. Maybe the twins will turn out to be the fulfillment somehow... they will show Rand that, even if he dies, he will be leaving something of himself behind. AND they're descendants of Tigraine and Morgase. I do agree that Gawyn and Galad are both also important.

 

Since Rand is of Andoran royal blood and is the Dragon Reborn, how is he NOT the key to defeating the DO? Without him there is no defeating the DO.

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I still don't buy that Rand is THE fulfillment of Elaida's Foretelling. Maybe the twins will turn out to be the fulfillment somehow... they will show Rand that, even if he dies, he will be leaving something of himself behind. AND they're descendants of Tigraine and Morgase. I do agree that Gawyn and Galad are both also important.

 

Since Rand is of Andoran royal blood and is the Dragon Reborn, how is he NOT the key to defeating the DO? Without him there is no defeating the DO.

 

By that logic, if the KEY is the Dragon himself... then why did LTT fail?? He's got to have something LTT didn't. And, why else write in Elayne having his babies right before TG? Just so we can all say "awwww, how cute"?

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And, why else write in Elayne having his babies right before TG?
We don't know that she will. They might not be born until after.

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And, why else write in Elayne having his babies right before TG?
We don't know that she will. They might not be born until after.

 

If she doesn't have the babies and get back into the main story, now that she has the throne, seems to be a colassal waste. RJ spent an enormous amount of the story building and defining her character to have her just sit pregnant during the last battle. She will have a significant roll as will the rest of the ruling line of Andor.

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I see that a lot of people are seeing Prophecies as real events instead of what they truly are,  mere glimpses into the patten.  Therefor no Prophecy will be completely accurate.  Plus there are many forms in which Prophecies come in.  There are metaphoric Prophecies like "shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf."  There are Riddle Prophecies like "Into the heart he thrusts his sword, into the heart, to hold their hearts. Who draws it out shall follow after, What hand can grasp that fearful blade?" Prophecies come in many forms many shapes and most of them can be interpreted in many ways and in some cases can be fulfilled in many different ways, else just knowing the prophecy will allow you to fulfill it or stop in with very little effort.

 

Now with that being said lets get on the subject. Prophecies Fulfilled in the last book.

 

Tuon saying that the dragon will stand on his grave and weep: And yes he was weeping when he was about to destroy the world.  Tears are not required.  Also the Prophecy listed at the end of the book is probably the real prophecy before its corruption in Seanchan.  "At the end of time, when the many become one, the last storm shall gather its angry winds, to destroy a land already dieing.  And at its center a blind man shall stand upon his grave.  There he shall see again, and weep for what has been wrought." "At the end of time":Rand is about to destory the world you bet its the end. "when many become one": Rand and Lews Therin Telamon become one. "The Last storm shall gather its angry winds, to destory a land already dieing": Rand will gather all the power he can hold to destory a world that is already on it way to being destory by other forces. "and at its center a blind man shall stand upon his grave.": Rand who cannot see why the pattern keeps respining lives into a world full of pain stands on the grave of Lews Therin Telamon who he is one with. "There he shall see again, and weep for what has been wrought.": Rand sees that it isn't for the pain and suffering that lives come back for, it for the chance of love and happiness and he weeps for what he was about to do, and he weeps for what the whole is heading to at the final battle.

 

Min and Perran's beggar prophecy:  no it didn't match the images they seen but neither did their images match each other.  everytime in the visions were there metaphorically or physically.

 

Egwene's prophecy for the attack on the White Tower: Shouldn't be any argument on this one.

 

Min's viewing about Siuan and Bryne: I believe its is partly complete. since Bryne now being siuans warder will most likely result in them saving each other lives quite a few times from now on, But then Min's viewing could of being just that simple, stay close so he would ask or dont stay close and die later since you wont have a warder to protect you.

 

As for Min's viewing that Cadsuane will Teach Rand and the Asha'man something, i believe this is still unfulfilled, since the Asha'man haven't learned anything yet, and that min said that is was something that they wouldn't want to learn.

 

As for the "He shall hold the blade of light in his hands, and the three shall become one"  prophecy i am still debating, simple interpretation is that Rand and 2 others with use Callandor and become one, But both Min and Cadsuane believe it is something more then just that.  Thinking Farther you may think that Rand needs to use Saidin, Saidar and the True power as one to rebuild the seal on the Dark One's Prison, but then what does the "blade of light" have to do with it since as far as we know Callandor is a sa'angreal that only channels saidin.  We also may be thinking to deeply since it could simply mean that at the time of the last battle only 3 of the forsaken remain and rand holds up Callandor and kills 2 of them and then the 3 become only 1.

 

 

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I'm not certain that the prophecy at the end of the book has been fulfilled. 

 

First off, we know that Rand is going to die ("To Live, you must die", references to Logain stepping over his grave, Min's viewing in Eye of World "three women standing over a funeral bier with you on it", etc.), so he is going to have 'another' grave aside from Dragonmount where Lews Therin died (unless they bury his body there too).  He also did not actually cry, and I don't think Rand's failure to recognize his Lews Therin persona as a part of himself qualifies as being 'blind'.  Plus he didn't "weep".  The "many become one" doesn't fit with Lews Therin and Rand 'merging' because the whole point was that they WEREN'T more than one, and the language is too similar to the "three become one" language from the blade of light / Callandor prophecy, which certainly hasn't happened yet.  we're also not quite at the end of time, which probably refers to the "twice dawns the day when his blood is shed" prophecy, implying either that time stops and resets somehow (or a solar eclipse, but with constant overcast skies that might be hard to see).

 

Regarding Rand's "blindness", think back to the prologue of Path of Daggers, where Moridin was describing the Fisher (i.e., Rand), as "The Fisher was always worked as a man, a bandage blinding his eyes and one hand pressed to his side, a few drops of blood dripping through his fingers".  It doesn't sound like the Fisher/Rand has a figurative blindness, but an actual blindness.  I think there's other references to Rand having a bandage over his eyes but not sure where offhand.  He'll probably go blind by Moridin shunting the effects of drawing on to the True Power over to Rand's body, maybe the saa will get worse, but I'm really just guessing there.

 

I personally think Rand is going to die by essentially having his body die while his consciousness takes over Moridin's reincarnated body.  This would explain Min's viewing where Aviendha has Rand's babies, but there's something "not quite right", although the babies would be healthy, i.e., Aviendha has Rand's babies with the DNA coming from Moridin's body.  Then Rand in Moridin's body will be free to cry all he wants over his own grave where his old body lays dead, and his old body's blindness will no longer affect him in his new body, so he'll be able to see again. 

 

Anyway, I think this theory is consistent with what we've been told, and isn't contradicted by anything that I am aware of.

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i agree that the blindness aspect has not been fulfilled yet.  think about how the encounter with semirhage left rand with his out of focus/blurry vision.  nothing has really happened with that yet.  i suspect that his vision will keep deteriorating until it becomes full blindness.

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im Very familiar with the fisher, "The Fisher was always worked as a man, a bandage blinding his eyes and one hand pressed to his side, a few drops of blood dripping through his fingers."  We will have to assume that this game is based on past turnings of the wheel, since it was said the game was ancient even before the war of power.  Do you believe that the 'Fisher' in every pass turning of the wheel became visually blind?  I believe not. The bandage is blinding him, he isn't blind, else there would be no point of the bandage.  It is there to say hey I work for whoever can gain control of me.  I actually have a theory based on that game as an explainian for the turning of the wheel. if ya ever wanna here it.

 

I near positive that rand will not go visually blind, and the body swapping idea is a little far fetched. if you noticed in the last book during the meeting of the chosen moridin favored his hand like it pained him somehow.  I believe the link between them is complete, if Rand dies, so does moridin and if moridin dies so does Rand.  Moridin even said in the dream, he didn't even know what would happen if they killed each other.

 

And as a final note. every prophecy so far listed at the end of each book was fulfilled in that book usually in one of the final chapters.

 

**Forgot to add**

I do have to say i may be wrong about the "when many become one" It may actually be referring to The White Tower Becoming one again.  I believe that LLt's Voice was a coping mechanism created by rand to deal with Past memories.  so the many personalities becoming one works for me, but for the people that dont believe it was then then the white tower fulfills that part just a cleanly.

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