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JenniferL

Which Prophecies Were Fufilled In This Book? (spoilers, natch)

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Well just to get the ball rolling...

 

Obviously Egwene's dream that the Seanchen will attack the White Tower has been fulfilled.  However that's being discusses in the Egwene thread.

 

Can't think of any others off hand though.

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Sheriam's blue/silver/gold - she was in a blue dress, with golden rays of sun, with a silver axe...

 

I like the mislead that it was similar to Logain's glory...

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Im pretty sure that the one of min viewing Rand and someone else (LTT) becoming one.

 

That might have to do with Moridin though.

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I think Cadsuane taught Rand laughter and tears. Not sure on that one, but that's my guess.

 

She taught him laughter at least imo.  I wouldn't be surprised to see her exile revoked early in ToM.

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Im sure he has bound the nine moons to him. I don't think it necessarily means that they work together, but that maybe he is now top priority in Fortuonas mindset now......

 

all speculative of course

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This one has been fulfilled:

 

There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he one with the land. Soul of fire, heart of stone, in pride he conquers, forcing the proud to yield. He calls upon the mountains to kneel, and the seas to give way, and the very skies to bow. Pray that the heart of stone remembers tears, and the soul of fire, love.

 

 

 

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I think the Gawyn saving Egwene prophecy was fulfilled; she was by herself and defenseless, and might easily have been slain by a Bloodknife if she hadn't been rescued right then.

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Min's viewing for Siuan was fulfilled according to Siuan.

 

Rand : the beggars staff and cloak appear after he goes to destroy Ebou Dar. The blind man was figurative. In the earlier chapters Rand says he feels blind, not knowing what to do and at the end of Veins of Gold he says he could see again.

 

I think it's questionable whether or not the "two shall become one" has been fulfilled. It could be LTT or it could be Moridin.

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Obviously Egwene's dream that the Seanchen will attack the White Tower has been fulfilled.  However that's being discusses in the Egwene thread.

 

What I find to be an interesting question is the line at the end of that prophecy.

 

A small white plinth stood centered in that circle, supporting an oil-lamp made of clear glass. The flame on that lamp burned bright and steady, without flickering. It was white too. Suddenly a pair of birds flashed out of the mist, two ravens black as night. Streaking across the spire-top, they struck the lamp and flew on without so much as a pause. The lamp spun and wobbled, dancing around atop the plinth, flinging off droplets of oil. Some of those drops caught fire in midair and vanished. Others fell around the short column, each supporting a tiny, flickering white flame. And the lamp continued to wobble on the edge of falling.

 

And yet after the attack the Tower is consolidated, and no Aes Sedai are left floundering outside as a result of it--could this just be as simple as a reference to the Aes Sedai taken as damane? Or even the Black Sisters who fled? The white flame is a symbol or being Aes Sedai, and I'm not sure either group would fit what this says--it seems to imply they survive and live as Aes Sedai on their own. There's even a sense of struggling pride to them. Of achievement. I don't see how that would fit damane of darkfriend.

 

Perhaps as a result of the raid Egwene will decide to decentralize the Aes Sedai or something? So that they can't all be taken in one blow (remember the mice analogy used after the use of the Choedan Kal when some Aes Sedai suggested abandoning the Tower)?

 

I think Cadsuane taught Rand laughter and tears. Not sure on that one, but that's my guess.

 

Even if the laughter was not specifically what she had to teach Rand and the Asha'men, I'd say it's the solid first step of teaching them they're still human, so it serves the purpose.

 

Im sure he has bound the nine moons to him. I don't think it necessarily means that they work together, but that maybe he is now top priority in Fortuonas mindset now......

 

Nah, I'm pretty sure that's still to come. Fortuona's definately not served him yet, even obliquely--if anything, she's served Egwene.

 

I think the Gawyn saving Egwene prophecy was fulfilled; she was by herself and defenseless, and might easily have been slain by a Bloodknife if she hadn't been rescued right then.

 

Perhaps, but two points--one the dream is not of Gawyn running, but 'someone' running, and two, even if it is Gawyn I reckon there's a lot more involved--Egwene implies that part of the danger lies in a decision from Gawyn.

 

Twice, right atop one another, she dreamed of taking [Gawyn] by the shoulders and trying to turn him to face the other way against his will. Once he brushed her hands away roughly; the other time she was somehow stronger than he. The two blended together hazily.

 

In another, [Gawyn] began swinging a door closed on her, and she knew if that narrowing gap of light vanished, she was dead.

 

I think Egwene's still in peril until he makes the decision Egwene is going to be trying to turn him aside from--the decision about Rand would be my guess.

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I think it's questionable whether or not the "two shall become one" has been fulfilled. It could be LTT or it could be Moridin.

Definitely, remember Rand's thinking that he wouldn't hear LTT again because he never had - they were always one I think was the exact phrase (or close to it).

 

Also, regarding the binding of the nine moons, I don't think we had anything major enough to suffice (he just intimidated her a bit). What's bothering me in that regard is that now there is no more a daughter of the nine moons *to* bind. Could someone who've read the big white book comment on different references to "nine moons" in Seanchan culture? Anyways, remember that the next book is named ToM, with the obvious Seanchan context, so we might see that one there (maybe this is the wrong thread for that remark. I'll admit I didn't read that thread yet).

 

Also, speaking of prophecies already fulfilled, did anybody else thought that it's weird that Egwene doesn't realize that Rand has already slain his people with a leaf (or was that the sword of peace? Am I confusing prophecies?)?

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And yet after the attack the Tower is consolidated, and no Aes Sedai are left floundering outside as a result of it--could this just be as simple as a reference to the Aes Sedai taken as damane? Or even the Black Sisters who fled? The white flame is a symbol or being Aes Sedai, and I'm not sure either group would fit what this says--it seems to imply they survive and live as Aes Sedai on their own. There's even a sense of struggling pride to them. Of achievement. I don't see how that would fit damane of darkfriend.

 

Perhaps as a result of the raid Egwene will decide to decentralize the Aes Sedai or something? So that they can't all be taken in one blow (remember the mice analogy used after the use of the Choedan Kal when some Aes Sedai suggested abandoning the Tower)?

 

Remember, Egwene's dreams are not really prophecies. They are reflections of events that may or are likely to occur. Her actions CAN change the outcome of the dreams. At least, that is how I always thought of it (though admittedly most things the dreamers see have became reality so far. Not all - consider Lan not coming to the waste and Moiraine dying as a result - but most).

 

Oh, and the Seanchan prophecy about rand standing on his grave, didn't Toun say he shall stand on his grave and *weep*, rather than laugh? Can we be sure that one has been fulfilled?

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Also, regarding the binding of the nine moons, I don't think we had anything major enough to suffice (he just intimidated her a bit). What's bothering me in that regard is that now there is no more a daughter of the nine moons *to* bind. Could someone who've read the big white book comment on different references to "nine moons" in Seanchan culture? Anyways, remember that the next book is named ToM, with the obvious Seanchan context, so we might see that one there (maybe this is the wrong thread for that remark. I'll admit I didn't read that thread yet).

 

Mat is married to her, but then again, he could no longer be maried since Tuon became Fortuona...

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I think it's questionable whether or not the "two shall become one" has been fulfilled. It could be LTT or it could be Moridin.

Definitely, remember Rand's thinking that he wouldn't hear LTT again because he never had - they were always one I think was the exact phrase (or close to it).

 

Also, regarding the binding of the nine moons, I don't think we had anything major enough to suffice (he just intimidated her a bit). What's bothering me in that regard is that now there is no more a daughter of the nine moons *to* bind. Could someone who've read the big white book comment on different references to "nine moons" in Seanchan culture? Anyways, remember that the next book is named ToM, with the obvious Seanchan context, so we might see that one there (maybe this is the wrong thread for that remark. I'll admit I didn't read that thread yet).

 

Also, speaking of prophecies already fulfilled, did anybody else thought that it's weird that Egwene doesn't realize that Rand has already slain his people with a leaf (or was that the sword of peace? Am I confusing prophecies?)?

 

IIRC, the Seanchan royal family/institution has 9 Moons all over it.  I think we get from the Seeker/Egeanin stuff that there's the Court of the 9 Moons and Tower of Ravens.  Since Mat is now the Prince of Ravens, I'm guessing there's a gender divide. For example, if Tuon had been a man he might have been Son of the Ravens.  (I'm not going with Prince because I feel like it's an indication of Mat's lesser position)

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Also, regarding the binding of the nine moons, I don't think we had anything major enough to suffice (he just intimidated her a bit). What's bothering me in that regard is that now there is no more a daughter of the nine moons *to* bind. Could someone who've read the big white book comment on different references to "nine moons" in Seanchan culture? Anyways, remember that the next book is named ToM, with the obvious Seanchan context, so we might see that one there (maybe this is the wrong thread for that remark. I'll admit I didn't read that thread yet).

 

Mat is married to her, but then again, he could no longer be maried since Tuon became Fortuona...

 

Of course he could be married, and if anything happened to Tuon he would become the emperor.

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Also, regarding the binding of the nine moons, I don't think we had anything major enough to suffice (he just intimidated her a bit). What's bothering me in that regard is that now there is no more a daughter of the nine moons *to* bind. Could someone who've read the big white book comment on different references to "nine moons" in Seanchan culture? Anyways, remember that the next book is named ToM, with the obvious Seanchan context, so we might see that one there (maybe this is the wrong thread for that remark. I'll admit I didn't read that thread yet).

 

Mat is married to her, but then again, he could no longer be maried since Tuon became Fortuona...

 

Of course he could be married, and if anything happened to Tuon he would become the emperor.

 

I doubt Mat would become Emperor.  Fortuona is concerned that Galgan might try to become Emperor by killing her.  Of course, Mat not being there makes it unlikely he could claim the throne in time.  But she gives no indication in her thoughts that Mat's presence would make any difference.

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Perrins dream of Rand wearing rags and a rough cloak, with bandage covering his eyes, along with Mins viewing of a beggars staff around Rand was fulfilled.

 

Mins viewing of Egwene becoming Amyrlin was truly fulfilled.

Mins viewing of Siuan and Bryne.

I am starting to wonder if we have misinterpreted Mins viewing from LOC, when Rand said he would cut off his arm before he hurt Min. It has by most been interpreted as Min seeing Rand lose his hand, but it could be that Min saw Rand hurting her instead.

 

Egwenes dream of great dark clouds moving without wind, with silver lightning but no rain at least started to be fulfilled, though I suspect we will see it get much worse.

 

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Not that it was much, but min saw light shining on dragonmount somewhere the middle of the book and it happened at the end, lol - We werent given much time to speculate upon that one :(

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Also, regarding the binding of the nine moons, I don't think we had anything major enough to suffice (he just intimidated her a bit). What's bothering me in that regard is that now there is no more a daughter of the nine moons *to* bind. Could someone who've read the big white book comment on different references to "nine moons" in Seanchan culture? Anyways, remember that the next book is named ToM, with the obvious Seanchan context, so we might see that one there (maybe this is the wrong thread for that remark. I'll admit I didn't read that thread yet).

 

The Nine Moons is the Empress. That's why Tuon was the Daughter of the Nine Moons, and the Imperial Court was the Court of the Nine Moons.

 

It's perhaps also why we should have known Rand would not succeed in his peace talks with Tuon--he is to bind the Nine Moons to serve him, not her daughter. Until Tuon claimed the Crystal Throne and became Fortuona Rand was bound to fail.

 

And yet after the attack the Tower is consolidated, and no Aes Sedai are left floundering outside as a result of it--could this just be as simple as a reference to the Aes Sedai taken as damane? Or even the Black Sisters who fled? The white flame is a symbol or being Aes Sedai, and I'm not sure either group would fit what this says--it seems to imply they survive and live as Aes Sedai on their own. There's even a sense of struggling pride to them. Of achievement. I don't see how that would fit damane of darkfriend.

 

Perhaps as a result of the raid Egwene will decide to decentralize the Aes Sedai or something? So that they can't all be taken in one blow (remember the mice analogy used after the use of the Choedan Kal when some Aes Sedai suggested abandoning the Tower)?

 

Remember, Egwene's dreams are not really prophecies. They are reflections of events that may or are likely to occur. Her actions CAN change the outcome of the dreams. At least, that is how I always thought of it (though admittedly most things the dreamers see have became reality so far. Not all - consider Lan not coming to the waste and Moiraine dying as a result - but most).

 

 

True enough I guess.

 

Oh, and the Seanchan prophecy about rand standing on his grave, didn't Toun say he shall stand on his grave and *weep*, rather than laugh? Can we be sure that one has been fulfilled?

 

That's a good question, and the prophecy itself says he'll weep. Who knows, maybe he laughed so hard he started crying.

 

Perrins dream of Rand wearing rags and a rough cloak, with bandage covering his eyes, along with Mins viewing of a beggars staff around Rand was fulfilled.

 

Has it? Rand didn't cover his eyes with a bandage, and under the cloak the Tinkers gave him he was wearing fine clothes.

 

The beggars staff has been fulfilled, I'd agree, but probably not Perrin's dream.

 

I am starting to wonder if we have misinterpreted Mins viewing from LOC, when Rand said he would cut off his arm before he hurt Min. It has by most been interpreted as Min seeing Rand lose his hand, but it could be that Min saw Rand hurting her instead.

 

Or perhaps she saw him resisting hurting her at great cost to himself? Her reaction seemed... off... for just plain 'hurting her'

 

 

 

 

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I think the Gawyn saving Egwene prophecy was fulfilled; she was by herself and defenseless, and might easily have been slain by a Bloodknife if she hadn't been rescued right then.

 

Perhaps, but two points--one the dream is not of Gawyn running, but 'someone' running, and two, even if it is Gawyn I reckon there's a lot more involved--Egwene implies that part of the danger lies in a decision from Gawyn.

 

Twice, right atop one another, she dreamed of taking [Gawyn] by the shoulders and trying to turn him to face the other way against his will. Once he brushed her hands away roughly; the other time she was somehow stronger than he. The two blended together hazily.

 

In another, [Gawyn] began swinging a door closed on her, and she knew if that narrowing gap of light vanished, she was dead.

 

I think Egwene's still in peril until he makes the decision Egwene is going to be trying to turn him aside from--the decision about Rand would be my guess.

 

My interpretation there was that his decision was whether or not to continue serving Elaida and his troops, or to switch and join Egwene.

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The Nine Moons is the Empress. That's why Tuon was the Daughter of the Nine Moons, and the Imperial Court was the Court of the Nine Moons.

Either the Empress or the Empire itself. Or both, as you generally had it considered King/Queen/Empress/Emperor and the land they ruled were one and the same.

 

Still it's almost worth a sticky at the top of the page saying it's bind the Nine Moons, not bind the Daughter of the Nine Moons for the number of times it's misquoted.

 

It'd be too much to hope binding the Nine Moons involves Fortuona and an a'dam. Or Fortuona and oaths on the oath rod to follow Rand.

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