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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Jason Denzel

What was your favorite chapter / scene/quote?

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Rich,

 

    While your explanation certainly makes sense, I have this lurking notion that we haven't seen the last of Graendal. though I do agree that the point of that scene was not so much to show her death as it was to show how Rand has fallen deeper into madness.

 

God, I hope we get some of the old Rand back, if even just a little bit.

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Suian bonding Gareth Bryne was my favorite part. In some ways, their relationship is similar to that of Mat an Tuon/Fortuona. The whole adverarial thing going on. But it was also the most light hearted part of the book to me.

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bubba is mean, he got first dibs on reading TGS and is teasin gme with tid bits!!

 

he got to the 2nd dinner with Elaida and let me read that, since that was one of the parts i was dieing to read about.

 

my fav quote is now "I'd name you dark friend too, but I assume the Dark One would be embarassed to associate with you."

 

lmao i love egwene :)

 

 

and then the Cadsuane turning Semi over her knee!!!!  omfg rotflmao!!!!  we both had tears in our eyes.  i don't knwo if that is purely written by BS, but if so RJ would be proud :D  and to add injury to insult, Semi eats the beans off the ground *snickers*  nothing like seeing a haughty forsaken humiliated to boost one's spirits *nods*

 

 

 

after that i couldn't help myself but to peak in this thread :)  and i got goosebumps when some of my inklings were right

 

such as Verin being BA?!?!?!?!  i started feeling that she might after my 2nd read through (of which i'm on LoC) and watching her character and reading Moraines warning.  that she specifically mentioned Verin made me think maybe she was, glad to know it was the "for the greater good"

 

and i knew Sheriam was BA!!!!  i knew it!!  i thought she was when she mysteriously appeared at the right place at the right time in TGH, when the Grey Man tried to kill Elayne and egwene.

 

i'm glad that Tam & Rand get to meet again, though after reading from you guys ...  :'(

 

i've only cried at two scenes in this series.  Moraines "death" and Perrin returning to the Two Rivers.  it seems with this book, i'll need tissues handy  :-\

 

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My fave scenes are the usual suspects. Egw/Verin, Rand/Semi, Veins of Gold.

 

My two cents on the Graendal scene. I don't have the book with me but one thing that I remember sticking out was the way that Nyanaeve said that the compulsion weave was cruder. If I didn't misread this it seems that there is a possibility it was someone other than Graendal that performed the weave. However, I like to think that she is dead. I would have loved to see a "Final Battle" with her but as someone said it would cheapen the scene if she pops back up.

 

Also, did anyone notice how whenever Rand had the Dark Halo around him things seemed to rot and spoil quicker? I think Nyanaeve's tea instantly turned bitter during one meeting with him. He was also in a foul mood after the meeting with Tuon and right when they were leaving every bit of food that was sent to Bandar Eban spoiled?

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nynaeve walked over to ramshalan and looked at him for a moment. she hissed and said, 'yes, rand, he's under heavy compulsion. there are a lot of weaves here. not as bad as the chandler's apprentice, or maybe just more subtle.'

 

 

Thanks for the quote Rich. That does change my thoughts on the subject. I'm definitely going to have to re-read and listen to the book again very soon. 

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Eh, Dhaell, it took me a really long time for it to click.

 

I was in my bathtub rereading the book after finishing it, and I nearly dropped it into the water when I realized:

 

"YES! This means I don't have to listen to any asinine theories about how Rand's going to walk around the world begging and he's not losing his sight, thank GOD!"

 

There's already way too many Dune homages in this series for Rand to do the final jump to Paul Atreides.

 

I think I would throw away my books in disgust if he goes blind and walks into Arrak...oops I meant the Waste.

 

Phaw!

 

Heh, yeah, I was wondering about Muad'dib and the blind/still seeing everything plot.  Good to know it's not going to happen.

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So she would have someone else do Compulsion, her expertise mind you, suspecting that her whole place was about to be nuked?

 

To refute the other arguments, that she could have placed the weave at a distance and released it when the balefire hit, that's kinda weak. Not saying it's impossible, but there's nothing to support it but wishful thinking and outlandish what-ifs.                  

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Could not have said it better myself. The pattern nearly unwove as a result of what he did. People aren't thinking about things very rationally.

remember what rand said i have seen cities with millions burned from the pattern. the warp in reality was just the pattern rewriting itself. rand has LTT knowledge theerefore he like the forsaken knows how much it take in theory it takes to unweave the pattern. graendal and 100 slaves r not an issue to the pattern if in the last age millions were burned out at a time.

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I went back and re-read "Veins of Gold" ... are we to infer that Rand can remember hundreds+ of his previous lives now? In greater or lesser number? Sort of like Birgitte after she was ripped from TAR?

 

I didn't get that impression personally

 

I'm at work and don't have the book with me but I kind of got that impression - there's a definite statement about remembering many lives.

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Without doubt, the best scene for me was when Rand dealt with Semirhage--and how he did so.  That had to have been the most shocking scene in the books to date.  I was like, "WHOOOOOAAAAA!!!"  I had to read it over a few times before I could go on.  The whole scene was like that--mind blowing.  And the mind blowing didn't end there.

 

I think what surprised me even more was that I enjoyed the book.  I'd already read the Prologue and Chapter 1, and have to say that I wasn't impressed by either.  The characters seemed, well, off I guess.  It didn't feel like RJ's voice for most of it.  Most of the book didn't either.  But it DID feel like RJ's world, and Brandon brought new life to this series with the almost blistering pace he set, from about chapter 4 on.  The focus was where it needed to be--on the Two Rivers people.  For too long, RJ put the focus on peripheral characters like Harine Breaking Wind or Morgase; Rand was almost invisible in book 10 and seen only a bit more in book 11.  He's the protagonist, he has the most interesting plotline, and he was almost a footnote in his own tale.  Brandon changed that for the better, and I also loved seeing Egwene come into her own finally--if not exactly how I expected her to do so. 

 

I'm glad I went out and got the book anyways, because I have to say...this is one of the best books in the series, and it has totally re-invigorated my desire for more! 

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Rand was almost invisible in book 10 and seen only a bit more in book 11.  He's the protagonist, he has the most interesting plotline, and he was almost a footnote in his own tale.  

 

I know the feeling but the reason for it is this: (IMHO) These supporting people we read so much about (Egwene's jerk assed lover in particular) Are exactly that, supporting rolls. They in many many ways are effecting how Rand's story progresses, almost as much as the Ta'Veren are. I like what Sanderson did here, he didn't put Several chapters of supporting rolls together, he Put more Rand chapters together, and spaced out the supports evenly, which i think was a critical part missing from the later first 11.

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1. A Visit From Verin Sedai - first time a book has made me shed tears

 

2. Semirhage collars Rand - I actually had to put the book down I was so shaken

 

3. Cadsuane spanks Semirhage - so histerical

 

4. Egwene confronts Elaida

 

5. Egwene battles the Seanchan

 

Favorite Line - In A Force of Light, after attacking Graendal Rand asks how you fight someone that is smarter than you. He answers: You make her think that you are sitting down across the table from her, ready to play her game. Then you punch her in the face as hard as you can. -- I dunno, for some reason this just made me laugh and laugh.

 

Also liked the lines about Rand's stump and the Cadusane proceeded to spank the forsaken line

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Hard to decide on a favorite scene. They were all so good! But sweet sweet justice takes the cake and Suffa waking up collared and strapped to a Raken was awesome. Thats right up with Thevera's little Lina getting hers in KoD. I wonder if we shall ever see Suffa again, hope not. :D

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Ahahaha, Suffa....

As for Graendel, I kind of agree that we'll see her POV at the start of ToM and find out how she died.

My Theory? She's watching Rand BaleFire her house from a mountain top, then turns around to have Bela kick her in the face before falling to her death. Epic.

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Hands down the chapter with Verin. That was awesome. It even eclipses Nyneave's meeting with the Malkiers and Golden Crane flies for Tarmon Gaidon scene from KOD.

 

Egwene's scene were very well written and very much in character. She still is one of my favorite characters along with Mat. Perrin and Mat's scenes felt a little off to me mainly because it didn't contribute to the plot much they were just placed there so that we know they are not forgotten.

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Just signed up... Finished the book last night and have no one to talk about it with...

 

This is the first time a WoT book has been released that I did not go back and re-read the series from start to finish.  I won't do that again until MoL is released.

 

My favorite scenes over all had to be the ones with Egwene in them.  I was forcibly restraining myself to not skip to the next chapter with Egwene it it.  The strength of her character presented was remarkable to see unfold.

 

Verin's visit was quite the surprise.  Jaw-dropping in fact.

 

I loved the overall pace.  It was very satisfying that things were actually happening in spades.

 

I loved the bits from Mat passing out the disguises.  Coming out of just having read the Mistborn series, this seems a very welcome "Sandersonian" moment.

 

I loved Veins of Gold.  Fantastic bit, especially at the end with the view from The White Tower.

 

I am very intrigued by this new discussion of Callandor and the "3".  My initial thought was that the 3 would be Rand/Nynaevae/Egwene combining the most powerful Aes Sedai with Rand as well as re-uniting old friends.  The ideas in this thread about Saidin / Saidar / TP are interesting also and something to think about.  I also keep wondering in the back of my head if this will somehow involve Mat & Perrin (yes - even though they can't channel) as those boys form a very powerful "3".

 

I can't wait to see the rest unfold.

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I wonder if the '3' could inc. Alivia... Drawing that much could kill Rand, therefore she's helped him die...

 

And I did like the fact that Elza served Rand 'in her own way' - showing that 'in her own way' didn't have to actually help him...

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There were a lot of very good scenes in this book.  I agree with those who say that Egwene did improve her standing a bit, I was never a huge fan of Egwene, but she did gain a bit more respect in this story.  I agree the scenes with Mat were a bit off in that they seemed put there for comic relief, but since he wasn't really doing a whole lot that was important this book, hopefully that will sort itself out in the next book.  The meeting between Tuon and Rand was unfortunate, but really ended the way it had to with Rand being the way he was.

 

My favorite scene, though, if I had to pick one would be another common choice: Veins of Gold.  This isn't even because of the scene itself, although I still immensely enjoyed it, but rather because of how it completely affects the books to come, and makes you excited to get to them.  Rand realizing that he doesn't need to be a stone to do his duty makes a huge difference, but what I think is most interesting is that Rand finally accepts that he IS Llews Therin, and Llews Therin excepts that Rand is him.  They are effectively one, and although I don't know if Rand will retain all the knowledge that Llews Therin had, the fact that Llews Therin's own realization that he doesn't need to continue to beat himself up about Ilyena means that Rand has finally become the Dragon, not the Dragon Reborn.  Egwene's comment in the Epilogue that they should mark this day on the calendars also illustrates the fact that a major turning point in the battle has just occurred.  A sane/rational Llews Therin that is actively seeking to not only defeat the Shadow, but make the world a better place at the same time AND is an incredibly powerful ta'veren?  That's a major, major blow to the Shadow.

 

As for Graendal bringing Rand pain, I think that in many ways killing her and Semirhage will bring him more pain than most of the people that he's killed.  The great revelation that Rand reached was that the Wheel keeps turning so that people have another chance at life.  I wouldn't be surprised if Rand avoided Balefire like the plague after this, for the same reason they avoided it in the Age of Legends.  By killing them with balefire, he's removing that second chance.  But, who knows.  They have been throwing balefire around pretty liberally, despite the insistence that it not be used.

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1-rand with the collar on sent me down freakout lane as well. and i even cheated a bit by glancing a the next page and seeing min breathing and then right back to the choking scene 

 

2- verin's did too, for a few seconds less than rand's scene.

 

3-one of my tops that i haven't seen listed was saerins pov when she was trying to establish a defense. "THE NOVICE QUARTERS!?!?".... "EGWENE!". that rocked.

 

4-of course Tam, but not with Rand, with caddy later on. Leave to a good ole boy to point out the obvious to the oblivious. Paraprhasing "WTF!?! The room got DARKER when he came in, what did you do?" That whole dark halo had me worried, just a little 

 

5- and yea seeing semi broken so fast was hilarious, if a bit anti-climatic.

 

6- and insanity or no insanity, i love seeing a more liberal usage of balefire .

 

7-many many more. was really hopin to see the perrin/galad/morgase scene. hopefully we'll get that in a flashback next book 

 

 

 

nigel

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....The meeting between Tuon and Rand was unfortunate, but really ended the way it had to with Rand being the way he was.

 

....means that Rand has finally become the Dragon, not the Dragon Reborn.

 

 

the meeting ended the way it had to because of the way Rand was? asking for peace, or just a temporary cease-fire, in the face of armageddon with possible compromises on those terms, barring enslavement of a certain group is not reasonable enough for you? i think he was reasonable, if not endearing and diplomatically proficient. personally i blame Tuon's stubbornness more.

 

Rand is the Dragon reborn. the Dragon was a title/honourific given to a man in a previous age. Rand is he reborn. of course, i am being literal here, and if you weren't being literal, then i apologise for stating the obvious.  ;D

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....The meeting between Tuon and Rand was unfortunate, but really ended the way it had to with Rand being the way he was.

 

....means that Rand has finally become the Dragon, not the Dragon Reborn.

 

 

the meeting ended the way it had to because of the way Rand was? asking for peace, or just a temporary cease-fire, in the face of armageddon with possible compromises on those terms, barring enslavement of a certain group is not reasonable enough for you? i think he was reasonable, if not endearing and diplomatically proficient. personally i blame Tuon's stubbornness more.

 

Rand is the Dragon reborn. the Dragon was a title/honourific given to a man in a previous age. Rand is he reborn. of course, i am being literal here, and if you weren't being literal, then i apologise for stating the obvious.  ;D

 

It is quite possible that Tuon was being Compelled. Compare what Nynaeve experiences in TSR to Tuon's POV here.

 

For that reason, I believe her decision to refuse to submit was actually noble, in the sense that CrazyRand was dispensing even with his ta'verenness and using forbidden things, in keeping with his activities in this book.

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I have to agree that the Verin/Egwene scene was awesome, because i'm now dying to know how Verin plans on doing what she needs to do, and how she might come back - "in case I do not return"  In terms of my least favorite scene, I was dying for an epic battle with Graendal, and it just felt anti-climactic the massive balefire of her palace

 

[it wasn't that Graendal's demise was anti-climatic in my estimation- I understood all of Rand's reasons for taking her out the way that he did- just that Graendal is the only forsaken that I could wrap my head around and I would have liked to see her go out last.

/quote]

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