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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Jason Denzel

What was your favorite chapter / scene/quote?

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Moridin and Rands meeting was quite interesting. Confirms the belief that Ishamael was the only one who really knew the true motives of the Dark One.

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First of all, my favorite is Verin's chapter.  Hands down.

 

But one bit that I apparently found more significant and surprising than others is Egwene's tension with Gawyn after the rescue.  After all they've been through, they finally get together and can't work it out.  Also, Gawyn's rescue didn't really save Egwene, she would have been fine in the tower.  This means that Gawyn still has to make that choice that will decide whether she lives or dies right?  And now they're pissed at each other . . .

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Cadsuane won't be freaking out about where Rand is--she has Min right beside her.

 

Which might make Cadsuane freak out even more when she learns about the amount of saidian Rand just used, considering what lies close to Dragonmount...

 

Was there an Asha'men in that room? Min's emotional access, even with distance, will reveal things that all is well swiftly.

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Cadsuane won't be freaking out about where Rand is--she has Min right beside her.

 

Which might make Cadsuane freak out even more when she learns about the amount of saidian Rand just used, considering what lies close to Dragonmount...

 

Was there an Asha'men in that room? Min's emotional access, even with distance, will reveal things that all is well swiftly.

 

I am not so sure a madmans emotions is something to trust.

 

Look at how it could seem. When Rand left, he was in a place where he had just nearly killed his own father, he had just been about to destroy the borderland army just because they did not want to meet with him, and then he leaves to destroy the Seanchan. Then he appears in a place far from where the Seanchan are, but quite close to someone else he has good reasons to be seriously pissed at - the WT. He goes through an emotional rollercoaster, uses a huge amount of Saidin, and all of a sudden he is in a jolly good mood.

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Cadsuane won't be freaking out about where Rand is--she has Min right beside her.

 

Which might make Cadsuane freak out even more when she learns about the amount of saidian Rand just used, considering what lies close to Dragonmount...

 

Was there an Asha'men in that room? Min's emotional access, even with distance, will reveal things that all is well swiftly.

 

I am not so sure a madmans emotions is something to trust.

 

Look at how it could seem. When Rand left, he was in a place where he had just nearly killed his own father, he had just been about to destroy the borderland army just because they did not want to meet with him, and then he leaves to destroy the Seanchan. Then he appears in a place far from where the Seanchan are, but quite close to someone else he has good reasons to be seriously pissed at - the WT. He goes through an emotional rollercoaster, uses a huge amount of Saidin, and all of a sudden he is in a jolly good mood.

He's on Dragonmount for a few hours before he draws alot of the One power through the CK. This is a lot of time for Min and Cadsuane to worry about his intentions.

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I wouldn't say that Egwene and Gawyn are pissed with one another. She said that she couldn't deal with him just yet. She was quite cold with Siuan too but that too will pass.

 

As for everyone who said the Mat chapters felt off, I loved them. Everything from the "women are like mules" bit to the giant charade he had planned for the assault on that town before Verin came to him. Mat noticed she had several envelopes like the one she gave him; I wonder who else she left final instructions/clues for?

 

And also, how the hell did Cadsuane know that Tam was with Perrin?

 

We see, through Rand, that Perrin has finally met up with Galad. I was hoping we'd get to see more of that in this book.

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1.  Verin, again hands down, no contest.  She was one of my favorite characters before that chapter, and will remain there without a doubt.  I was also saddened by the death of a favorite character, but I also have to admit that it was kinda cool for one of the good guys to actually die, not to mention a couple of forsaken taken out for permanent.  Verin's death kind of ups the stakes for the series.

 

2.  Has anyone considered that Mat isn't acting like Mat at least in part due to the fact that he just got married and is worried about his wife?  I agree that he seems off, but I'm not ready to write off BS's portrayal of him after only a couple of chapters especially since there is such a good reason for him to be acting oddly.

 

3.  IF, (and that's a great big IF,) Graendal killed Asmo, I wonder if it is possible that Asmo is no longer dead?  That was a pretty big hunk of balefire that took down Graendal, what else might have been unraveled?  I don't know if BS's promise to reveal Asmo's killer makes this scenario more, or less likely.

 

4.  I thouroughly enjoyed the Egwene chapters, but I would have like to have seen some more resolution of the BA hunters in terms of them having more success with the Tower BA.  I expected that many of the tower BA would escape since presumably Messana at least had connections between the rebel camp and the tower, and the motivation to spirit away as many dreadlords as could be managed.  The forming of circles of novices seeed to fit well, and I'm glad to see that Egwene was smart enough to go looking for some bigger artillary before rushing out to destroy the Seanchan Raid.

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3.  IF, (and that's a great big IF,) Graendal killed Asmo, I wonder if it is possible that Asmo is no longer dead?  That was a pretty big hunk of balefire that took down Graendal, what else might have been unraveled?  I don't know if BS's promise to reveal Asmo's killer makes this scenario more, or less likely.

 

If the balefire went back that far then much of the chaos in Arad Doman would have been undone, the boy who did the poisoning would probably still be alive (since they wouldn't hunt for Graendal if she already didn't exist) and the Shaido might not have been gated all over the place by Sammael linked to Graendal.  Basically a lot more would have changed than what did if the balefire burned back that far.

 

Rand's balefire unaided goes back about 30 seconds.  (Matt and the Darkhounds)

Rand's balefire with an angreal goes back several minutes to an hour.  (Rahvin)

Rand's balefire with the biggest sa'angreal shouldn't be more than a couple days or a couple weeks at most if the ratios hold.

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My brother just brought this up and it's a valid point:

 

Where the hell was Logain? I don't remember any mention of him in the book, not even a shot of him scowling in the background. He was still with Rand at the end of KoD, right?

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And why did Sheriam have blue/gold rays at one point in a Min Aura (much earlier book)? o.O She didn't exactly do anything redeption-y? And she's kinda dead now...

 

Is that a genuine Failed Min aura?

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My brother just brought this up and it's a valid point:

 

Where the hell was Logain? I don't remember any mention of him in the book, not even a shot of him scowling in the background. He was still with Rand at the end of KoD, right?

 

yep where was logain?

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And why did Sheriam have blue/gold rays at one point in a Min Aura (much earlier book)? o.O She didn't exactly do anything redeption-y? And she's kinda dead now...

 

Is that a genuine Failed Min aura?

 

I will quote for you.

 

"They'd placed her head on the block and taken it off, just like the others. That scene would always be vivid in Egwene's mind--her former Keeper, lying with her head pressed against the stump, blue dress and fiery red hair suddenly bathed in warm, golden light as a thinner section of clouds moved in front of the sun. Then the silvery axe, falling to claim her head."

 

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Which equally ironically means that Ta'vernen twisting doesn't actually mean that it's towards what the Pattern needs. And says that Ran'ds Ta'verneness doesn't have too much effect sometimes. The Pattern NEEDED her to say 'no' so thay the attack on TV could happen, Rand's Ta'verneness getting a 'yes' would have directly gone against the Pattern (i.e. Egwene's dreaming & Min's viewings) - showing that Rand can come very close to forcing the Pattern away from its destined course.

 

 

I'm 99.999% sure that CrazyRand (because whoever that guy was between ACOS and Veins of Gold, especially after Chapter 22, it was *not* Rand Al'Thor) was absolutely not relying on his ta'verenness.

 

I think it's extraordinarily obvious why we got that scene from Tuon's POV. We've had similar POVs from Nynaeve and Liandrin, from TSR and FOH respectively, that demonstrate pretty clearly CrazyRand was using Compulsion.

 

Which, if you're not facing someone as talented as Graendal, which CrazyRand is not, can be headed off at the pass by superior will, which we KNOW Tuon certainly has.

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Ahhhh so many things to start thinking about now... so many new theories to spring up...

-Verin: I wanted her have one last talk with Moiraine SOOOOOOO bad.

-I was a little disappointed with how Graendel's death scene played out (not gonna lie, i was hoping for an epic showdown with Avi and Min mixed in somewhere).

- Elayne... heard nothing from her for once (and I was extremely interested to hear of her having the kids, joining up Andor with the WT and Rand, all of which never came).

- Galad and his Whitecloaks > disappeared pretty quickly in KOD and we have yet to see them again (Can't wait for Rand and Galad to realise they're half brothers  ;D)

- Avi just waltzing off into the waste and us not getting to see her trials, or her return to Rand and FINALLY able to be with him (like in TSR <3)

 

Well, enough for the things I was disappointed with (most of which will be resolved in later books anyways). This book was amazing. By far one of the best in the series. I can't even fathom how it can get much better than this.

 

PS> just to throw in one little theory now:

Callandor. 3 become one. Anyone else thinking about Avi, Min and Elayne??? Or another theory??

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I really enjoyed this book but I must say my favorite scene was the last one with Rand. I disliked reading his POV through most of the book. This is despite the fact that in all other previous books his was the one I was interested in most. However, that last chapter was absolutely amazeingly well written and has so much potential for the next two books.

 

Also that is an interesting theory Mr. Micawber I think that there is definately something to that. Whenever anyone does something they normally would not, there is usually something either pulling them or that just slipped out. This was not the case with Rand for most of the book, they were instead felt something dark, not very Ta'verenish to me. Also the way she described looking for the flaws in his plan reminds me of Elayne's mother ( her name escapes me at the moment) when she was under compulsion. I agree completely that was definately compulsion.

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fave scene was definately Egwene verbally pimp slapping elaida, others will argue the seanchan attack or semirhage's escape, but i've waited sooo long for egwene to knock elaida down a few pegs.  Who else loves Silviana btw?

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PS> just to throw in one little theory now:

Callandor. 3 become one. Anyone else thinking about Avi, Min and Elayne??? Or another theory??

 

This just seems a bit too far fetched for me since Min can't channel and it I would expect something a little more direct when it comes to Callandor. Saidin, Saidar and the TP are my guess to be the 3 become one, most likely used against the DO, using the TP as a buffer to protect Saidin and Saidar from being tainted. Just my two cents.

 

Favorite Scenes: Egwene vs Seanchan and Egwene becoming Amyrlin (again) and asking Silviana to be her Keeper. I always knew it was bound to happen since Chapter 2 was released, especially with the weight given to Egwene's thoughts on what kind of Mistress of Novices Silviana is. Still, I found the scene very touching.

 

GO AWAY GAWYN, I almost wish he'd get balefired D; He's so arrogant and full of himself (even though Bryne and Egwene knock him down some) I could hardly stand it.

 

Sidenote: Moiraine vs Cadsuana is going to be pretty epic. I cannot see either one backing down since they both pretty much gave their lives to what's on the horizon. Maybe a possible partnership, if not I can see Moiraine winning out. She/Siuan were supposed to be the most powerful AS in years when they were novices, when Cadsuane was obviously around. However, Cadsuane has an angreal and I wonder how Tam's tongue lashing is going to effect her, I can see it having at least a minor effect on her, at the very least.

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I will quote for you.

 

"They'd placed her head on the block and taken it off, just like the others. That scene would always be vivid in Egwene's mind--her former Keeper, lying with her head pressed against the stump, blue dress and fiery red hair suddenly bathed in warm, golden light as a thinner section of clouds moved in front of the sun. Then the silvery axe, falling to claim her head."

 

 

D'oh. Thanks for that. :) Nice mis-direction by RJ. :)

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i've been throwing the idea around of "3 become one" being saidar, saidin and TP as well.  Only major flaw with this idea is that if the DO doesn't want you to channel the TP, you can't; you're cut off.  It served his purposes in corrupting Rand in this book, but if it is going to be turned against him, you can bet your bupkis he'll cut him off.

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