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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Jason Denzel

What was your favorite chapter / scene/quote?

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Hmm. It seems the book has been very well received. I haven't quite finished it yet. I have to admit that E've definitely enjoyed most every scene so far, but as time progressed I began skipping to see Egwene's roll. Satisfaction in its entirety. Wow...

 

I'll agree that some scenes were very unsatisfactorily 'not' Robert Jordan. But accepting that, i think it's unlikely that we could have gotten a better author than Sanderson to continue. True he said that he wasn't going to try to mimic Jordan, but is it just me, or did anyone else grow irritated at how he seems to jump around?

 

A single chapter i'm reading about Rand. The next chapter egwene. Then suddenly Tuon. Then Cadsuane. Then Perrin. Then 'what the hell?' lets go back to Egwene. Just for kicks and giggles... but NOT change the chapter? If memory serves Jordan ran most of his chapters in small 'arcs.' A Perrin arc which lasted for say three to five chapters. Then an egwene arc. Then a Rand, etc. etc.

 

But this just keeps JUMPING! I find myself having difficulty connecting to the characters when every 'moment' i find myself switching scenes!

 

Jordan made it utterly 'infuriating' with his arcs. He would get you so utterly immersed in a character that you just HAD to know more! Sanderson has gone the opposite direction.

 

Probably not the proper section to complain about the 'structure' of the book but it seems to have gotten a bit off topic once or twice.

 

Moving on to favorite scenes... uhm..., Egwene is an utter badass. She should have badass engraved into the great serpent on her ring.

 

Verin should probably be 'renamed' with the word. Still can decide whether the scene where she debates Elaida down or talks with Verin are the better.

 

Speaking of Elaida, anyone else think she was a bit too... I dunno... too much of an idiot? I mean sure she's always been pretty bad, but Jordan never showed her as 'utterly incompetent' as she was portrayed here. Still loved the ending for her. Saw it coming from the moment Egwene had her ravens dream back in book 10 though.

 

Ah well.

 

If Moiraine's return comes anywhere close to Verin's scene, then I suppose I will be content no matter how the series ends.

 

As for Mat. Eh... He's Mat enough for me. Talmanes joking at him about acting Husbandly, and his indignant replies was enough to satisfy me. Course I haven't read the later scenes. Hope I don't hate em.

 

I have yet to read chapter 22 which seems to be an impressive chapter. Needless to say I've neither read Veins. But it seems i have something to look forward to in both.

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Chapters 22-23 are some of the best i have ever read, but Veins of gold(50) WOW! Such a heart wrenching moment for our hero. The sacrifice that Verin made to purge the Black Ajah was a great moment aswell. I will agree with people when they say that mat didn't feel right however, i think that as time went on he smoothly fitted back into the classic mat.

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While it didn't seem very RJ, it did make Egwene seem more human in the scene with Gawyn - 'I have to go order people I care about to attack other people I care about' - one of the best lines IMO... After all the WT stuff, it reminds us that Egwene is still human...

 

Although she's also turned into somewhat of a Galad - doing what she feels is Right regardless of consequence...

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Another fan returning for discussion of a new book. I used to post here semi-regularly, but that was in the days of Winter's Heart, and there's no way I remember that login, password or even the email account I used.

On to my 'best bits...'

 

Egwene's scenes in general were just awesome (and to think she used to be a character I could give or take). Her and Verin, magic scene!

 

I also really enjoyed Rand's development. Certainly he became more sympathetic in my eyes.

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One thing I find very sad is that the oath rod WOULD have released Verin - it worked on Talene. :( Although I'm surprised she didn't try sooner in those 70 years...

 

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I liked Egwene slightly sympathising with Rand when she is held captive. Now that Rand is human again (I hope) that can only bode well, Rand should be able to admit to his mistakes and go to Egwene.

 

One thing I did notice, as Rand walked out of the meeting with Tuon, and Tuon's subsequent ordering of the attack on the white tower, I lost all hope of an alliance between the Seanchan and the forces of the light.

 

How does that prophecy go?

 

The North and East must be as one. The South and West must be as one. The two must be as one (?)

 

It dosn't say allied in there anyway. It just says they have to be the same, ie perhaps wartorn and chaos ridden. I really had a horrible feeling when Rand left Arad Doman, that this is just the start of things to come. I really think we've gotten that above prophecy wrong...

 

Stand out scene for me was Rand, in Veins of Gold. As he rounded on Tam, I checked the page count left, and thought he couldn't possibly be redeemed in this book as I had hoped. He became SO dark, SO twisted, I genuinley thought he was going to scour Ebou Dar off the map with Balefire. The reconciliation at the end was so simple, and dramatic, with the light from The Creator, that I damn nearly cried. I felt like I was welcoming back an old friend.

 

Verin though. WOW. Yet again, proof that RJ has his plans laid deep... I don't think ANYONE saw that coming.

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The Nine Moons as a whole is another name/identity for the Seanchan. Tuon was the "Daughter of the Nine Moons", not the Nine Moons themselves.

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The Nine Moons as a whole is another name/identity for the Seanchan. Tuon was the "Daughter of the Nine Moons", not the Nine Moons themselves.

 

Where does it say it's an identity for them?

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I don't really know Xarra. I read it somewhere and sort of implied through the text but I'm sorry I don't have a reference.

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My very favourite scene is the tie between Verin and Egwene's scene, and the scene where Egwene goes postal with the sa'angreal.

 

THIS.  In particular:

 

Adelorna turned hesitantly.  A woman in white stood atop the rubble a short distance away, a massive halo of power surrounding her, her arm outstretched toward the fleeing soldiers, her eyes intense.  The woman stood like vengance itself, the power of saidar like a storm around her.  The very air seemed alight, and her brown hair blew from the wind of the open gap in the wall beside them.  Egwene al'Vere.

 

OMFG.

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Best scene - Egwene/Verin talk. That was seriously toptier, one of my favourite scenes in the whole series. Verin is quite frankly pretty wonderful all in all. Just the sheer shock when Verin revealed what she'd been up to. I wasn't expecting anything like that at all. And the calmness in which she showed,m casually telling Egwene she's Black Ajah. R.I.P VERIN SEDAI a hero amongst heroes :(

 

Apart from that I LOVED the last chapter and when Rand was captured w/ the a'dam too.

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Ah, but Tuon isn't the DNM any more - so who is? Her heir? Or is The Empress also the Nine Moons?

 

The prophecy says nothing of Rand binding the Daughter of the Nine Moons to serve him, it speaks of him binding the Nine Moons to serve him. Consider as heir Tuon was the Heighest Daughter, the Daughter of the Nine Moons--this implies that the Nine Moons itself is the Empress, and the Empire.

 

Rand will bind the Empress, not the heir, and when he spoke to Tuon she was not the Empress. There is even a certain irony to it--Tuon avoided naming herself Empress so that she could meet Rand as an equal, yet in response to that failure naming herself Empress opens her to being bound in service by him.

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Ah, but Tuon isn't the DNM any more - so who is? Her heir? Or is The Empress also the Nine Moons?

 

The prophecy says nothing of Rand binding the Daughter of the Nine Moons to serve him, it speaks of him binding the Nine Moons to serve him. Consider as heir Tuon was the Heighest Daughter, the Daughter of the Nine Moons--this implies that the Nine Moons itself is the Empress, and the Empire.

 

Rand will bind the Empress, not the heir, and when he spoke to Tuon she was not the Empress. There is even a certain irony to it--Tuon avoided naming herself Empress so that she could meet Rand as an equal, yet in response to that failure naming herself Empress opens her to being bound in service by him.

Also the ruling body of the Senchan is called the court of the nine moons.

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Before I got to the last three or so chapters, I was convinced my favorite scene would involve Egwene.  She stole the show for me throughout most of the book, and it was amazing to finally see her heal the White Tower and assume her role as Amyrlin.  Up until the end of the book, my favorite chapter was probably The Tower Shakes or A Fount of Power.

 

Then I read Veins of Gold.  That was by far the most emotional scene in the book for me, and a possible contender for my favorite scene in the entire series.

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Best scene: When rand snapped, touched the True Power and become a sociopath. That was crazy. He was a literal monster for a good part of the book. His redemption was a little corny but that was the second best scene.

 

I look forward to the next book where Cadsuane is freaking out about where rand is, and then when Asha'man freakout about the amount of Sadin Rand drew in.

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I also thought that Mat's POVs were a little off, but to some degree, I liked the change.  It was nice to get some amusement in an otherwise fairly dark work.  Even though I didn't think the scenes were what Jordan would have written, I found myself laughing (even at the parts where they're planning the invasion of that town). 

 

I know everyone is saying this, and I agree.  However, I am not completely convinced that this is entirely Brandon's doing.  For me, there are only two scenes that seem off: the opening "conversation" with Talmanes, and the handing out of disguises.  The handing out of disguises was just hilarious, and so Brandon can be forgiven for this.  Besides, just because he is a great general does not mean he is a super capable spy.

 

The opening conversation with Talmanes is the only thing that really rubbed me the wrong way.  And it just goes on for so long.  So long that it seems uncharacteristic of Brandon.  Part of me wonders if this is not an instance of "Jordan wrote it, so it goes in, no matter how rough".  Jordan went through 12 drafts on his books, but not every thing he wrote before his death would have been completely polished.  I guess we won't know until Brandon releases annotations.

 

The other issue with evaluating Matt is that his chapters in KOD are so strong.  The interplay with Tuon really defined that character, more so than the previous books (and he had great battle sequences to boot).  With just a handful of chapters in TGS, it is hard to compare the two.  We will know more in TOM.

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Cadsuane won't be freaking out about where Rand is--she has Min right beside her.

Oh. Well, maybe she'll freak out when the Asha'man freak out about the Amount of Sadin that Rand drew in.

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Rand will bind the Empress, not the heir, and when he spoke to Tuon she was not the Empress. There is even a certain irony to it--Tuon avoided naming herself Empress so that she could meet Rand as an equal, yet in response to that failure naming herself Empress opens her to being bound in service by him.

 

Which equally ironically means that Ta'vernen twisting doesn't actually mean that it's towards what the Pattern needs. And says that Ran'ds Ta'verneness doesn't have too much effect sometimes. The Pattern NEEDED her to say 'no' so thay the attack on TV could happen, Rand's Ta'verneness getting a 'yes' would have directly gone against the Pattern (i.e. Egwene's dreaming & Min's viewings) - showing that Rand can come very close to forcing the Pattern away from its destined course.

 

Also, for prophecy, if she'd said 'yes', she'd have bound the nine moons to him as soon as she said she was Empress, and saying 'no' means she can still bind them to him. Gotta love a prophecy that can come true regardless of your actions.

 

And, I also love the fact that the Seanchan have such a simple way of doing things... Married 'cause they said it 3 times, coronation from saying 3 words, demoting by 'your name is...'

 

Also, I noticed all the da'covele knew the words to the coronation song - they must've learnt that very quickly!

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I liked Egwene slightly sympathising with Rand when she is held captive. Now that Rand is human again (I hope) that can only bode well, Rand should be able to admit to his mistakes and go to Egwene.

off topic abit

admit what mistakes? his belive all WT women play at manipulating ppl? or ashaman bonding aes sedai instead of killing them?

how about egwene and WO not giving rand info about the world of dreams and him almost dieing to ravhin, as a mistake?

 

i would hope egwene learned in this book that WT isnt the center of the world atm and that a person sometimes must choose the lesser of 2 evils. not sure shes realized the 1st completely yet as of the this book but she internal comment about male channelers gave me hope. imo a clean slate would be best and lets hope the WT stops trying to manipulate him.

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Cadsuane won't be freaking out about where Rand is--she has Min right beside her.

 

Which might make Cadsuane freak out even more when she learns about the amount of saidian Rand just used, considering what lies close to Dragonmount...

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