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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Prologue, Chap. 1-50, Epilogue


JenniferL
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just finished it. wow! Brandon did a great job. I finally feel like I know or understand Rand a bit. Even before he started trying to turn himself to steel, I never really connected with him, and felt he was kind of a robotic character. His rollercoaster of emotions in this book really opened him up I think

 

Random commentary on the writing: It probably just stood out to me due me listening to the audio rather than reading it, but it seemed to me that Brandon had practically everything anyone said, being done "thoughtfully".

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Does the 3 become 1 refer to saidin, saidar and the one power merging and becoming one type of power?

The 3 must be as one.

 

I don't know what that is about. 3 ta'veren, or what? I have no idea.

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Does anyone know where can i find the gathering storm as an e book.I ordered my copy from amazon but they still didn't sent me and i want to read the book asap.

 

You can't find a legal copy until next October, which is when it's officially released as an ebook.

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Does the 3 become 1 refer to saidin, saidar and the one power merging and becoming one type of power?

 

Well, Cadsuane seems convinced that it's the three channelers in the circle, but frankly, she has failed to live up to her reputation and even moreso her own self image at more than a few turns in the book. I wouldn't be surprised if she is wrong about the nature of Callandor entirely.

 

My own theory is, that Rand will have to take advantage of his connection with Moridin and the three refer to Saidin, Saidar, and the True Power. Touching Saidin to the dark one's prison is what caused the backlashing taint on Saidin, so it follows that perhaps by weaving the True Power, he can use that as the foundation for the new seal, and avoid tainting Saidin and Saidar.

 

Of course, this depends on whether he can still touch the True Power. I think that now that he has regained his humanity, he will still be able to go in to that deeper void, but it will be a place of peace rather than frozen anger. Maybe he will find something else. Saidin is a raoring tempest to be controlled, Saidar is a flood to succumb to, and the True Power is a power of Destruction. Maybe there is also a power of Creation seperate from Saidin and Saidar. Perhaps both together. Regardless, I think his connection with Moridin is still in place, and I think that is how he took hold of the True Power. In fact, I think he used Moridin as a sort of living Angreal for the True Power, and that's why it was so powerful. It would make sense, that such a dark power has it's angreal as something so dark as using another person.

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My own theory is, that Rand will have to take advantage of his connection with Moridin and the three refer to Saidin, Saidar, and the True Power. Touching Saidin to the dark one's prison is what caused the backlashing taint on Saidin, so it follows that perhaps by weaving the True Power, he can use that as the foundation for the new seal, and avoid tainting Saidin and Saidar.

 

Problem with that is that how DO controlled power could block DO? And if you plan to put TP first and then OP seal top of it a) why wouldn't DO be able to remove TP(which DO controls) and infest OP then and b) one would think Mierin & co would have noticed OP made seal when they bore it. I think Rand will return DO into pre-AOL state for the next turn of wheel so there needs to be no aparent seal left afterwards.

 

And is it just me or are the boards hideously unstable? I keep getting database connection errors.

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If it has not been mentioned already...

 

"There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he one with the land. Soul of fire, heart of stone, in pride he conquers, forcing the proud to yield. He calls upon the mountains to kneel, and the seas to give way, and the very skies to bow. Pray that the heart of stone remembers tears, and the soul of fire, love." - A Crown Of Swords opening prophecy

 

 

As to the lands and food an everything rotting, that should change now if these prophecies shared with us have any real meaning seeing as how Rand remembers happiness and such. Maybe his minions and peasants will now be able to get food they need rather than dissolved or rotting stores.

 

To add my opinion, great book and very intense.

 

 

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Good point to bring up psychoRift... I totally forgot about that prologue. As we've seen from people being around him when Rand has that "Dark Halo" all foods spoil faster (the tea with Min and Nynaeve is a great example)...

It might not do much if the DO is causing the rot, then again it may fix everything just in time for the Last Battle.

Something I miss right now is Loial's stump meeting. What's up with the Ogier???

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Yeah, fantastic find, psycho. Rand has been, I guess through the strength of his ta'veren nature, affecting the pattern much in the way that the Dark One and Ishmael have before. Only unintentionally.

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I am not sure whether I will be able to read all 97 pages of this thread, but I needed to put down my thoughts.....WOW.  I am 37 y.o. and everyone I know who could really appreciate the significance of TGS i no longer keep in touch with, so this is it.

 

I had a corporate retreat that started the day TGS came out.  I had my wife pick it up and drove the hour home and then back to pick it up at dinner time.

 

I actually got chills holding it.  When I started the prologue, I actually teared up and had to put it down.  I mean wow. More intense and exciting and revealing in the first chapter than the last 3 books combined.

 

There were times that i had to put it down, I could not breath.  Even writing this I am getting emotional.  I will try to put down my thoughts on individaul chapters and plot lines, but for now I just want to thank Robert Jordan and Harriet as well as Brandon for doing such a great job.  I have not had a book affect me this much in decades.  From start to finish just the best :'(

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Chapter 49

Last page: 754

 

"Then he rested his elbows on his knees and his head on his HANDS stairing at the diminutive statue of the man with the globe."

 

got his hand back did he?

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Chapter 49

Last page: 754

 

"Then he rested his elbows on his knees and his head on his HANDS stairing at the diminutive statue of the man with the globe."

 

got his hand back did he?

I guess easier to write than "on his hand and stump"
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Unless we see Rands hand somehow replaced (bit of all weaves to make a fake hand, then maybe Nyneave attaching it to his stump muscles?) we will probably just see that used because Rand still thinks of it as his "hands". See the first chapter where he tries to run his hand through his hair only to realize its just a stump now.

 

Also, now that he is no longer cuendillar, is he going to feel the pain from all those wounds?

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I did it!  It took me 3 days, but I finally read all 97 pages of this thread before posting.  I'm proud of myself... Not that anyone cares.  I also wrote two full pages of notes, but posting them here would be completely meaningless I think.

 

I will comment on the last few posts, since they are most fresh on my mind:

 

Rand was healed!  His hands (never mind, see EDIT below), his insanity, his wounds (I'm starting to doubt this too, after realizing my error, see EDIT below)... They were all healed!  This is my theory and here is why:

 

Nobody has mentioned the shear amount of One Power Rand let course through his body at the end of the book in Veins of Gold and the potential effects that him channeling it may have had.  Now, I know there is absolutely no founding for this theory, other than a hunch, but is it possible that the effects of the taint (Rand's link to Lews Therin), his missing hand, and even, possibly, his wounds in his side were all healed just based on the amount of One Power that he filled himself with?  Nobody has ever had that much one power course through them before.  He literally pulled as much power through the CK as was humanly possible.  The only reason he didn't burn himself out is because the Sa'angreal wasn't flawed like callandor, and therefore wouldn't allow him to draw enough OP to actually burn himself out, but he came as close as possible.  He radiated so much OP, that he glowed from several miles away, and Egwene felt peace emanating from him.

 

That awesome amount of power could have some very positive effects on someone who was as beaten as Rand was at the end of the book.  We know that his link to Lews Therin is gone, though we don't know exactly why.  Was it because he was "emotionally healed" as he realized that a chance for love and a second chance at life (or third, or fourth, or more as the wheel continues to turn) and didn't need the construct of Lews Therin in his mind anymore (though the memories were obviously real)?  Or was it deeper than that?  Were these the "wounds of madness" that he was meant to heal, according to the prophecies?  Not just healing the taint, but actually healing his own insanity that was caused by the taint?  Can just filling yourself with that much of the OP actually heal you?  Was this a subtle intervention of the Creator?

 

On top of this, the "resting his head on his hands" may not have been a typo.  It seems to me like a hint that Rand was healed more than mentally up there on top of his grave...

 

Also, now that he is no longer cuendillar, is he going to feel the pain from all those wounds?

 

I believe that he was healed from those wounds, and will no longer feel them.  Think about it... He learned what he needed to from those wounds (the evil of Shadar Logoth vs. the evil of the DO).  They have served their purpose in the plot (IMO).  Rand speculates at some point that he thinks those are the wounds that will eventually kill him, but I disagree.  They are healed.

 

Maybe, as has been discussed, they didn't heal entirely because he was making himself cuendillar.  Now that he has completely freed himself of being dark/crazyRand, maybe they will heal themselves (though I think they were healed while he channeled all that power from the CK).

 

(EDIT:  Well, my theory isn't true.  The "he rested his head on his hands" statement was definitely a typo.  It happened before he channeled all the Power through the CK, and not after... So my theory has much less ground to stand on.  Oh well, it was fun while it lasted!  I do still think that Rand's insanity may have been healed by more than just an epiphany.  The amount of Power coursing through him could've helped fix the rift between him and his past life/lives.)

 

Wow... That was long.  I have a lot more where that came from...  It's been all bottled up since I finished the book last week.  I've kept myself from posting until now.  I hope someone reads this...  ;D

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If it has not been mentioned already...

 

"There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he one with the land. Soul of fire, heart of stone, in pride he conquers, forcing the proud to yield. He calls upon the mountains to kneel, and the seas to give way, and the very skies to bow. Pray that the heart of stone remembers tears, and the soul of fire, love." - A Crown Of Swords opening prophecy

 

 

As to the lands and food an everything rotting, that should change now if these prophecies shared with us have any real meaning seeing as how Rand remembers happiness and such. Maybe his minions and peasants will now be able to get food they need rather than dissolved or rotting stores.

 

To add my opinion, great book and very intense.

 

 

 

BS confirmed that this was the case in a Q&A. The spoilage and such anyway--as for things getting lighter... the sunshine around dragonmount could be caused by that, as opposed to resulting from the Choedan Kal.

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Just finished a few minutes ago, and it's 1:00 am here. I'll be back on tomorrow to really read through what others have said/are saying, but I have a few thoughts to put down before I pass out on my keyboard here. Keeping in mind that due to a major personality I flaw I basically spoiled all the major revelations and plot points before I was halfway through the book, so nothing came as a "big shock" to me and I don't have that "OMG what just happened?!" reaction as I finally set the book down. I'm more thoughtful than stunned I guess.

 

1. NEEDS MOAR LOGAIN.

 

2. I think it was a major miscalculation for BS to decide to not ape RJ's style and instead write in his own style. I haven't read many of the interviews, so don't know what his reasoning was with going this route. I hope it was no "I didn't think I could do RJ's writing style justice" type crud, because dude... at least try. I assumed that trying to preserve the voice or tone of the series for the sake of continuity for the fans was the logical thing to do, but I guess I'm missing where it's better for the series to just veer off in a different style? IDK. It pulled me out of the story, the new-fangled, modern words/phrases/expressions that were dropped in occasionally. RJ tended to use the same phrases and descriptions consistently (which I used to resent, but now long for), and so when something is new it really, really stands out in the context of WOT. After 11 books in a consistent voice, to just suddenly change it (with obviously tragic extenuating circumstances, granted) is jarring, to say the least. I feel like it would have been a better move to try to imitate RJ's style as much as possible. I know there are others that have voiced similar concerns. I don't want to disrespect Brian's work, per se. But I am a fan of the series, so am just concerned/disappointed with that. Maybe it won't be so jarring in the last few books. *shrug* We all know that I'm mostly referring to:

 

3. Mat. Who is this guy? He is not Mat. I think maybe it's one of the Forsaken pretending to be Mat--only way you can account for his suspicious personality change. He is somewhat amusing, but even what's amusing is out of place. The phrases he's saying, they seem to modern. He's writing pages of detailed alias backstory for his minions? I thought Mat had a childish, blocky writing style anyhow, a.k.a. doesn't write much. That chapter would have been funny for a different series altogether. But I resented it here (OK, I did find it funny, but it was the same feeling you get when you read good fanfic--you like it, but you know it isn't "real" and so it doesn't matter). It felt like BS had a funny notion and decided to go with it, even though it was too contemporary in its punchline. Aside from that whole chapter, Mat's voice was just wrong throughout. Almost trying too hard to hit the effortless Mat humor. Also, Talmanes was one of my favorite characters, stoic and silent, with obviously a very DRY sense of humor. Now I'm being told at least three times how he has a twinkle in his eye, and he's turned into some chatty cathy all of a sudden. Trying to reconcile Talmanes from this book, with the really cool guy who meets with Egwene in TPoD. No luck. Sigh. End rant. Just very disappointed as I used to love Mat's character most of all.

 

4. So what actually happened in this book? Major developments that I can think of:

  • Semirhage eliminated.
  • Graendal eliminated. (I'm not buying the "maybe she's not really dead" theories, sorry.)
  • Seanchan attack WT.
  • WT reunited.
  • Black Ajah purged.
  • Rand gets really bad but then becomes alright again in the end. (Sort of a non-development at the end of the day.)
  • Masema killed.

 

Other minor occurences include: Siuan Bonding Bryne; Egwene and Gawyn "together", vicinity-wise; Perrin and Rand together, vicinity-wise; Rand meets w/ Tuon, but nothing helpful occurs; Tuon officially becomes empress; Avi graduates to WO.

 

Nothing from Elayne's group, hardly anything useful from Perrin (is there ever? har har, j/k), for all of the shenanigans with "Mat", nothing really happened there. Did I mention the completely shameful lack of LOGAIN? Also seemed to be, overall, less of the Forsaken/DF POVs. Just little glimpses here and there. (The chapter with Moridin and Rand was one of my favs though--really, just... COOL.)

 

What am I forgetting? The pace of the book was good, but when I looked back I'm still wondering what really happened. I feel like the intensity racheted up, snowballing along to TG in fine fashion. Speaking of pace:

 

5. I know someone somewhere was complaining about the book structure, but I actually liked it. RJ would do the chapters by character arc, which is OK except if you get caught in a dull arc and can't get out. I prefer the one chapter, bouncing around from here to there. I think that's what made the pace seem faster, honestly. Also, SIGNIFICANTLY less POVs from minor characters that we'd never heard of/will never heard from again. I kind of missed some of the non-essential characterizations. That seems to be stripped away in view of the looming storm of TG, but it's almost better that way, because in times of crisis, that's probably what people are. Just the core of their personalities, doing what they have to do.

 

OK, so that went on way longer than I anticipated. To quote Mean Girls, "I just have a lot of feelings..." Don't think I didn't like the book, just digesting and musing. Looking forward to discussing it more in-depth in the coming months!

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logain will certainly feature in the next book. and yes while certain characters look abit off such as mat, min and aviendha it's no suprise is it.

 

 

the pace is one of the best things about this book. it seems ever since book 6 we have been in slow mode ever since and now we are finally back with actual plot movement and climactic battles.

 

 

 

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There was some plot movement, mostly concerning the White Tower. We resolved the plot line of the division, had the fulfillment of Egwene's Dream, and as a bonus got to see it purged of the Black Ajah, which was cool. Beyond that, two Forsaken were dispatched. The Prophet was finally killed (which was more of a relief than a huge plot development, as we all knew it would happen sooner or later--Faile's killing him actually seemed more of an expedient for the author than for the character, lol).

 

The Seanchan raid of the Tower was exciting, but other than that I don't recall any "climactic battles".

 

If this book had been placed earlier in the series, I would think it would be OK. But with only two books left in the entire series... I thought maybe a little bit more might be moved into place before TG. It was still a fast and exciting read, though. I guess there's only so much they can squeeze into one book.

 

I mean, some things we've been waiting for for a while were only mentioned in brief passing. Perrin meeting up with the Whitecloaks (I'm certain has to be expanded in flashback POV in the next book), Rand and others finally finding out that Morgase is alive... I'm really look forward to Morgase reuniting with Elayne. Can't wait for that. Not to mention Moiraine's rescue. With all that was mentioned of Moiraine this book, I'm surprised it wasn't set up for her rescue in the next book. But it's not too far from where Mat currently sits. I wonder if Verin's instructions will pertain to that, or... something completely different?

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Why i have more and more feling that book's 13 and 14 will be s**t.

I mean Brandon is good writer but his style is not for this kind of book.

I will read it anyhow just to see what wil happen in the end and to get answers to some questions that i have.

P.s sorry for gramar and speling mistakes.English is not my main language.

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Haha.  When I first read your post, I thought you said English is not my "human" language...

 

Anyway, I think the general consensus is that this was a great book.  I think people will rate this as one of their top 3 favorites.  While not everybody can be totally pleased, I think most fans are.  I disagree with you in saying the last books will be crap.  I loved this book.  Not RJ, but definitely WoT!

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I for one (most others disagree I think) was very disappointed in the pace.  Kathana's review had me waiting in anticipation, but it seemed like all the book did was go from one camp to another for the first two-thirds of the book.

 

Definitely not in my top 3.  The "LaughingRand" scene was a big disappointment, but totally typical for the entire series.  I can't believe I didn't see it coming.

 

I know I couldn't have been the only one to think "Oh, no, we just got off this ride!" when Gawyn started on his "must rescue Egwene" obsession.  No one cared if Faile was rescued.  Eg. never wanted to be rescued.  THE ONLY PERSON WHO NEEDS RESCUING IS MOIRAINE AND NO-ONE'S GETTING ANY CLOSER TO THAT!  As a matter of fact, I'm giving Thom a free pass to have POV after POV on how the only thing that matters is rescuing Moiraine.

 

The end of both Graendal's and Verin's parts in the story were also disappointing.  Two of the story's most mysterious characters just cast aside like so much refuse.  Verin got a better deal, but there's a small chance Graendal may still be at large and not Bale-Fried (just from Nyn's descriptions of the weave COULD indicate some trickiness on Gr.'s part).

 

I did get something in my eye on the appearance of a certain shaggy brown mare, though.  I do wonder how she could be a mare, because it seems like 4 out of 5 boy horses are gelded.  (And who looks at whether a horse is a gelding in order to constantly be commenting on it?).  Anyway, whatever got in my eye then cleared up, I still don't know what it was.  Strange, that.

 

It almost seems like Cads is trying to break Rand along the same counter-intuitive way that the DO is killing off his Forsaken.  Send Nyn to chase Perrin to get Tam then have Tam spill the beans that it's all an AS plot???  Is that the best the wunder-AS can do??  Or was it on purpose?

 

Cheers to Egwene, she's growing into one of my favs, but I wonder how it never crossed her mind that since Siuan was illegally deposed, and since SS is alive and still an AS, could there be a case made that SS should still be Amyrlin?  Not that I am making the case for SS, but Eg called the sitters out that SS was deposed by a "tainted" vote.

 

Seems that with the next book's title, that we may get to find out what happened to our band of intrepid Red sisters in the Black Tower...

 

 

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Siuan Sanche wasn't even Aes Sedai for a while. Not her fault, but that might not matter. She couldn't be Amyrlin if she wasn't Aes Sedai. So I think it could be argued that she wasn't able to fulfill her duties as Amyrlin seat, or even Aes Sedai.

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after reading the book for the second time, isnt anyone actually a bit worried about how the things are progressing especially since we only have 2 more books left.

 

i mean the final book is going to be tarmon gaidon essentially but how long will it last. days, months, years. will tarmon gaidon be as epic as the war of power? will it last 10 years?

 

we do know the next book will have everyone getting their ducks in a row just before the seals are broken. i just think the gathering storm could have been done may be 2 books ago

 

 

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i mean the final book is going to be tarmon gaidon essentially but how long will it last. days, months, years. will tarmon gaidon be as epic as the war of power? will it last 10 years?

Couldn't it have started already? How long it will last? Probably less than 10 years, even if we're counting from when the Forsaken got out.

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Siuan Sanche wasn't even Aes Sedai for a while. Not her fault, but that might not matter. She couldn't be Amyrlin if she wasn't Aes Sedai. So I think it could be argued that she wasn't able to fulfill her duties as Amyrlin seat, or even Aes Sedai.

The Amyrlin IS Aes Sedai. That's how Egwene was raised in the first place: making her Amyrlin made her Aes Sedai. Stilling didn't end Siuan's reign as Amyrlin, deposing did. The Hall of the Tower deposed of her and did that by the letter of the law. That ended Siuan as Amyrlin. She could be raised, but wouldn't be a logical choice: she's weaker in the One Power than she was and wouldn't get the support of the Hall of the Tower, because she couldn't bring the Reds back.

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I for one (most others disagree I think) was very disappointed in the pace.  Kathana's review had me waiting in anticipation, but it seemed like all the book did was go from one camp to another for the first two-thirds of the book.

 

Definitely not in my top 3.  The "LaughingRand" scene was a big disappointment, but totally typical for the entire series.  I can't believe I didn't see it coming.

 

I know I couldn't have been the only one to think "Oh, no, we just got off this ride!" when Gawyn started on his "must rescue Egwene" obsession.  No one cared if Faile was rescued.  Eg. never wanted to be rescued.  THE ONLY PERSON WHO NEEDS RESCUING IS MOIRAINE AND NO-ONE'S GETTING ANY CLOSER TO THAT!  As a matter of fact, I'm giving Thom a free pass to have POV after POV on how the only thing that matters is rescuing Moiraine.

 

The end of both Graendal's and Verin's parts in the story were also disappointing.  Two of the story's most mysterious characters just cast aside like so much refuse.  Verin got a better deal, but there's a small chance Graendal may still be at large and not Bale-Fried (just from Nyn's descriptions of the weave COULD indicate some trickiness on Gr.'s part).

 

I did get something in my eye on the appearance of a certain shaggy brown mare, though.  I do wonder how she could be a mare, because it seems like 4 out of 5 boy horses are gelded.  (And who looks at whether a horse is a gelding in order to constantly be commenting on it?).  Anyway, whatever got in my eye then cleared up, I still don't know what it was.  Strange, that.

 

It almost seems like Cads is trying to break Rand along the same counter-intuitive way that the DO is killing off his Forsaken.  Send Nyn to chase Perrin to get Tam then have Tam spill the beans that it's all an AS plot???  Is that the best the wunder-AS can do??  Or was it on purpose?

 

Cheers to Egwene, she's growing into one of my favs, but I wonder how it never crossed her mind that since Siuan was illegally deposed, and since SS is alive and still an AS, could there be a case made that SS should still be Amyrlin?  Not that I am making the case for SS, but Eg called the sitters out that SS was deposed by a "tainted" vote.

 

Seems that with the next book's title, that we may get to find out what happened to our band of intrepid Red sisters in the Black Tower...

 

 

 

I totally loved the book, i literally squealed like a ten year old girl when i started reading it (and several times cool things happened) - but you have nailed it on the head. With Verin i was like - ok that explains her abit, but you told mat to wait 30 days - but your dead... so is she dead? She clearly thought she could possibly be alive somehow (or maybe the letter would influence him somehow). I didnt like how rand went off the handle with tam, then for some reason thought 'screw it, i wont be hard as stone anymore' and destroy the best weapon going. I didnt associate gawayn's (sp) 'must save egwene' mood with perrins, and im more than dissapointed that he just left the younglings after 'thinking about his feelings'.

 

Sigh, it was still awesome though.

 

Does anyone know what happened to the cache of angreal that moraine had peddled by the darkfriends? She died, they died - did they get left in the waste? i know the bowl of the winds cache is with elaine - but cant for the life of me think where the first cache is kept. Moraine 'died' before taking them to the tower right?

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