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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Prologue, Chap. 1-50, Epilogue


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AS cannot lie. Verin is AS. Therefore Verin cannot lie. That is absolutely crystal clear.

Really?  ;D

:D

'The dress you're wearing is green', while talking to someone in a novice dress...

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No, it was a plausible explanation. RJ said that it was possible. Read it and weep.
You'd have to find the quote first. Because what we have seen in the series is that changes made in T'a'r don't always translate to the real world - see Egwene's journey to Salidar. The lashings from the Wise Ones could be removed in T'a'r but came back in the real world. And objects from T'a'r cannot be taken out of it. So you don't have a plausible explanation. And even if you did, it wasn't right, and the reason you gave for why it must be a lie was completely wrong and based on your made up definition of a word. Verin didn't rewrite the dictionary. So you were wrong. Completely.
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"Moiraine sent me. She thought you might need me.". The dictionary doesn't say that Moiraine didn't have to have an intent of sending her. You've misunderstood what a dictionary is all about.

 

Verin was a clever woman. She knew full well that Moiraine didn't send her anywhere. She lied.  ;D

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The dictionary doesn't say that Moiraine didn't have to have an intent of sending her.
Your argument was that the word sent requires intent. It doesn't. Therefore the foundation of your argument was wrong. The very reason you gave for why we should accept Verin as a liar was flawed. You were wrong. And you couldn't come up with a good reason for why she should be able to lie. Everyone who just said "Verin can't lie but is for the Light" ended up being more right than you.
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There are a lot of people who complain about Mat's chapters.  I laughed through most of them, and enjoyed them thoroughly.  There was one thing that bothered me about Hinderstap, however.  Mat takes five soldiers with him.  He sends two with the Aes Sedai (p. 407).  Where do those three soldiers go?  He worries about his Redarms that are with him, but he never seems to spare even a side thought to the three who went with the sisters.  When they pass back through the inn, nobody notices any blood stains that could be from the soldiers, and the soldiers are not in the groups who have come back from the dead as far as we can see.

 

It's an oopsie.  A few of us have noted it in another thread.

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My thoughts....

The forces of the light gained a lot of ground in this book. I had to put it down for a few minutes when Verin confessed, jump up and down screaming "I KNEW it!" and "Oh no the horn!" and the like. Rands descent to rock bottom was awesome, and I did not expect him to learn laughter the way he did. (I thought it would have to do with his kids) I think that Rand channeling the true power however, was a BIG step backwards for the forces of light, I wondered if the Dark one hadn't just turned him right then and there. (Does Rand have one of those black chords that he's seen attached to the forsaken? is that what his "dark aura" is?) Did he sense the true power from achieving the "uber-void" that he did, or did the dark one allow him to sense it?

 

Even more important than the white tower being united and the black aja purge and Rand learning laughter is his new connection with the true power, VERY significant.

 

I thought that Rand got the True Power through his connection with Moridin, personally. Didn't he see Moridin's face right before he channeled?

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Your argument was that the word sent requires intent.

No. Verin knew that Moiraine didn't intend to send her anywhere. She didn't go after Rand because Moiraine tried to send her anywhere. Verin went by her own free will. Verin was full aware of this.

 

 

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Oh, and the word "sent" in this context can only mean one thing. Intention. But there was no intention. Verin, being a clever Brown, knew full well what had happened. As should the readers.

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This could be put in a new thread, but what do you guys think about the battle in this book? Rank this battle with the others.

 

Dumai's Wells is still the most ferocious and bloody, the battles at Malden and Malvide Narrows, still the most tactically minded, IMO, but this one had some drama, had flair, and IMO it was as cool as the one at Falme, maybe even better.

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I really want to know where Fain is.  We haven't seen him in a couple of books, and I feel like he's going to leap out and bite someone in the ass real soon now.  :-X

 

I'm hoping he went back to his hometown Lugard and is manipulating Murandy into another Shadar Logoth, but total speculation.

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My thoughts on how to stop the DO:  Take Fain, throw his ass into the Bore, and let the two evils destroy each other.  :o

 

Not a bad idea.  Dunno whether Fain + Ordeith ( or Mordeth if you prefer ) would be enough to cancel out the DO.  Probably more like an elephant being bitten by a mosquito, but it should at least annoy the DO a little.

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i miss fain alot. he's my fave villain. i lost count on the number of people i converted to the wot series by showing them the fain chapter in loc where he's with the mother and kid. :P

 

fain where are you?!

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the thing that bothers me with hiterstrap is that it sorta a constant bubble of evil how come this is the only one we see the pattern is actually fixing after its done non of the other bubbles are seen to be fixed why this one.

Could it be that mats tavern effect is helping the pattern and know that hes gone its gonna stop?

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the thing that bothers me with hiterstrap is that it sorta a constant bubble of evil how come this is the only one we see the pattern is actually fixing after its done non of the other bubbles are seen to be fixed why this one.

Could it be that mats tavern effect is helping the pattern and know that hes gone its gonna stop?

no it was stated that it was happening before mat came around, so I dont think that it matters

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We have a thread for balefire and how its used in this book. Please move any discussion of that, over there. Thanks dudes.

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Here are some of my thoughts on TGS:

    Rand had to descend into absolute madness and hardness in order to truly understand why the world, life, existence, etc, is worth fighting for and continuing on.  Rand can go no lower, and his madness etc, parallels the situation of the world.  Remember all the Bubbles of Evil, the night in Hinderstap, all the food spoiling, and unexplained deaths.  Rand wants to destroy all of humanity because he feels there is nothing to live for, I know that’s obvious, sorry.  He no longer remembers how to laugh or cry.  He has no joy in life.  He is also insane, but isn’t insanity running rampant in the world? 

   

It seems like the DO is trying to influence Rand, the ultimate tool of the Light, to accomplish the goal of the Shadow.  Remember,  Verin told Egwene no one understand how the DO fights, BUT does the DO truly understand a human to the absolute fullest?  I believe the DO can’t because he doesn’t understand love and happiness, delight, and wonder.  At this last moment in Veins of Gold, when Rand is at his hardest, and most evil, his humanity takes over!  Hope for humanity has been rekindled in the world and in the Dragon Reborn.

 

Just a random thought, but if I remember correctly, cuendillar is also called heartstone.  If I remember correctly, I find it interesting that the strongest substance known to man is what Rand is trying to become.  The heart is what he is trying to shut away and ignore, but in the end, I believe he becomes more like cuendillar because he finally allows his heart to rule, rather than his mind alone. 

 

I also would like to say that I loved it when Min stepped and told Cadsuane and Nyneave that everyone was trying to control Rand.  Isn’t there an Aes Sedai out there that realizes the women and the men need to work together rather than try to push each other around.  Oh, and they all need to realize to get respect you must give respect.  Aes Sedai and Rand need to learn that.

 

I also do not believe Rand is using Compulsion.  I think he relies on his being ta’veran and his absolute force of personality when he goes to visit the Daughter of the Nine Moons.  I believe it was his ta’veran nature the forced Tuon to tell him “No.”  The Pattern needed this to happen.  I do believe Tuon was unprepared for the force of….almost evil…that surrounds Rand when they meet, and that is what causes her to almost give in.  She was, I believe, still expecting a human, but by that point, we know he has lost just about all of his humanity.  That halo of blackness around him, I believe, is not just caused by his one time use of the True Power, but his loss or suppression of his humanity.

 

I don’t think there are going to be any other instances of all the food going bad at once when Rand is around.  I think that scene was a direct result of Rand’s state of mind at the moment.  All the good things that happen as a result of his ta’veran nature are not happening because he has no feeling.  He is in the dark.  When he begins to feel love and joy again, there will be more balance in those instances.

 

 

And I'd just like to say that Brandon Sanderson did an amazing job on this book.  Like everyone else, I waited four LONG years for this book to come out.  I personally find this series to be the best Fantasy out there.  Period.  I am so so this book is over, and I cannot wait until the next one is released.  In a away, I am sad the series is coming to an end, but I can't wait to find out what happens to everyone!!!!

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Just thought ya'll may be interested in a rough estimate of how much P.O.V.-time each character gets in the book. (this is an estimate as I counted, say pg 900-905, as 6 pages even though pg.900 may have half the page filled with a Chapter symbol. Also if there were two or more POVs in a chapter, I divided the "screen time" equally rather than counting out actual splits. But it should give you a pretty fair estimate of relative POV-time):

 

1.  Egwene----------(158.7pgs) 21.2%

2.  Rand------------(113.5pgs) 15.2%

3.  Mat-------------(70pgs) 9.4%

4.  Nynaeve---------(65.5pgs) 8.8%

5.  Gawyn-----------(51pgs) 6.8%

6.  Siuan-----------(42.7pgs) 5.7%

7.  Cadsuane--------(35pgs) 4.7%

8.  Avienda---------(34.5pgs) 4.6%

9.  Tuon------------(30pgs) 4.0%

10. Perrin----------(24.5pgs) 3.3%

11. Min-------------(22.5pgs) 3.0%

12. Rodel Ituralde--(21.8pgs) 2.9%

13. Semirage--------(9.5pgs) 1.3%

14. Shemerin--------(7.5pgs) 1.0%

 

15. Jesse-----------(6.7pgs) 0.9%

15. Faile-----------(6.5pgs) 0.9%

 

16. Verin-----------(6pgs) 0.8%

 

17. Renald Fanwar---(5.3pgs) 0.7%

17. Graendal--------(5.3pgs) 0.7%

17. Masema----------(5.3pgs) 0.7%

17. Falendre--------(5.3pgs) 0.7%

17. Tylee Khirgan---(5.3pgs) 0.7%

 

18. Byrne-----------(4pgs) 0.5%

18. Elaida----------(4pgs) 0.5%

18. Saerin----------(4pgs) 0.5%

18. Sheriam---------(3.5pgs) 0.5%

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Oh, and here's a list of the POVs (sorry, my character name spelling is likly terrible in places), page numbers, and chapter symbols for each chapter. For some reason I forgot to write down the symbol for the prologue and have since lent out my copy! Eek! I'm sure you'll be able to figure it out :)

 

Prologue: What The Storm Means,

(POV: Farmer Renald Fanwar/ Sul'dam Falendre / Tylee Khirgan / Graendal / Rodel Ituralde / Masema),

p.17-48,

Chapter Symbol:

 

Chapter  1: Tears from Steel,

(POV: Rand),

p. 49-63,

Chapter Symbol: Rand's Dragon

 

Chapter  2: The Nature of Pain,

(POV: Egwene),

p. 64-80,

Chapter Symbol: Aes Sedai

 

Chapter  3: The Ways of Honor,

(POV: Avienda),

p. 81-91,

Chapter Symbol: Aiel Spears

 

Chapter  4: Nightfall,

(POV: Gawyn),

p. 92-96,

Chapter Symbol: Oroborus & Wheel

 

Chapter  5: A Tale of Blood,

(POV: Rand / Cadsuane),

p. 97-111,

Chapter Symbol: Sea Folk Gull

 

Chapter  6: When Iron Melts,

(POV: Rodel Ituralde / Egwene),

p. 112-120,

Chapter Symbol: Patten Unravelling

 

Chapter  7: The Plan of Arad Doman,

(POV: Nynaeve),

p. 121-135,

Chapter Symbol: Cadsuane's Hair Pins

 

Chapter  8: Clean Shirts,

(POV: Siuan),

p. 136-154,

Chapter Symbol: Siuan's Six Mice

 

Chapter  9: Leaving Malden,

(POV: Perrin),

p. 155-167,

Chapter Symbol: Perrin's Wolf

 

Chapter 10: The Last of the Tabac,

(POV: Rodel Ituralde),

p. 168-179,

Chapter Symbol: Rand's Dragon

 

Chapter 11: The Death of Adrin,

(POV: Avienda),

p. 180-190,

Chapter Symbol: Pattern Unravelling

 

Chapter 12: Unexpected Encounters,

(POV: Egwene),

p. 191-211,

Chapter Symbol: Aes Sedai Faces

 

Chapter 13: An Offer and a Departure,

(POV: Gawyn),

p. 212-226,

Chapter Symbol: Warder Sword

 

Chapter 14: A Box Opens,

(POV: Cadsuane),

p. 227-233,

Chapter Symbol: Cadsuane's Hair Pins

 

Chapter 15: A Place to Begin,

(POV: Rand / Min / Avienda),

p. 234-248,

Chapter Symbol: Rand's Dragon

 

Chapter 16: In the White Tower,

(POV: Egwene),

p. 249-274,

Chapter Symbol: Aes Sedai Flame

 

Chapter 17: Questions of Control,

(POV: Cadsuane / Perrin),

p. 275-284,

Chapter Symbol: Perrin's Blacksmith Puzzle

 

Chapter 18: A Message in Haste,

(POV: Siuan),

p. 285-293,

Chapter Symbol: Siuan's Fish

 

Chapter 19: Gambits,

(POV: Tuon),

p. 294-310,

Chapter Symbol: Seanchan's Helmet

 

Chapter 20: On a Broken Road,

(POV: Mat),

p. 311-324,

Chapter Symbol: Mat's Dice

 

Chapter 21: Embers and Ash,

(POV: Perrin / Faile),

p. 325-337,

Chapter Symbol: Perrin's Wolf

 

Chapter 22: The Last That Could Be Done,

(POV: Semirage / Rand),

p. 338-356,

Chapter Symbol: Forsaken's Snake

 

Chapter 23: A Warp in the Air,

(POV: Cadsuane),

p. 357-361,

Chapter Symbol: Rand's Dragon

 

Chapter 24: A New Commitment,

(POV: Gawyn),

p. 362-377,

Chapter Symbol: Andor's Bull & Roses

 

Chapter 25: In Darkness,

(POV: Sheriam / Egwene),

p. 378-384,

Chapter Symbol: Aes Sedai Faces

 

Chapter 26: A Crack in the Stone,

(POV: Avienda / Shemerin),

p. 385-399,

Chapter Symbol: Pattern Unravelling

 

Chapter 27: The Tipsy Gelding,

(POV: Mat),

p. 400-419,

Chapter Symbol: Mat's Dice

 

Chapter 28: Night in Hinderstap,

(POV: Mat),

p. 420-441,

Chapter Symbol: Pattern Unravelling

 

Chapter 29: Into Bandar Eban,

(POV: Rand),

p. 443-456,

Chapter Symbol: Rand's Dragon

 

Chapter 30: Old Advice,

(POV: Gawyn),

p. 457-467,

Chapter Symbol: Warder Sword

 

Chapter 31: A Promise to Lews Therin,

(POV: Cadsuane / Rand),

p. 468-488,

Chapter Symbol: Cadsuane's Hair Pins

 

Chapter 32: Rivers of Shadow,

(POV: Nynaeve),

p. 489-511,

Chapter Symbol: Oroborus & Wheel

 

Chapter 33: A Conversation with the Dragon,

(POV: Rand),

p. 512-521,

Chapter Symbol: Rand's Dragon

 

Chapter 34: Legends,

(POV: Mat),

p. 522-535,

Chapter Symbol: Mat's Dice

 

Chapter 35: A Halo of Blackness,

(POV: Rand / Tuon),

p. 536-549,

Chapter Symbol: Seanchan's Helmet

 

Chapter 36: The Death of Tuon,

(POV: Verin / Tuon),

p. 550-561,

Chapter Symbol: Oroborus & Wheel

 

Chapter 37: A Force of Light,

(POV: Min / Nynaeve),

p. 562-580,

Chapter Symbol: Rand's Dragon

 

Chapter 38: News in Tel'aran'rhiod,

(POV: Egwene),

p. 581-597,

Chapter Symbol: Tel'aran'rhiod Sprial

 

Chapter 39: A Visit from Verin Sedai,

(POV: Egwene),

p. 598-617,

Chapter Symbol: Aes Sedai Faces

 

Chapter 40: The Tower Shakes,

(POV: Siuan / Egwene),

p. 618-633,

Chapter Symbol: Seanchan Helmet

 

Chapter 41: A Fount of Power,

(POV: Gawyn / Saerin / Egwene / Byrne / Elaida),

p. 634-653,

Chapter Symbol: Andor's Bull & Roses

 

Chapter 42: Before the Stone of Tear,

(POV: Rand),

p. 654-663,

Chapter Symbol: Rand's Dragon

 

Chapter 43: Sealed to the Flame,

(POV: Egwene / Jesse / Siuan),

p. 664-683,

Chapter Symbol: Aes Sedai Flame

 

Chapter 44: Scents Unknown,

(POV: Nynaeve),

p. 684-701,

Chapter Symbol: Oroborus & Wheel

 

Chapter 45: The Tower Stands,

(POV: Egwene),

p. 702-713,

Chapter Symbol: Aes Sedai Flame

 

Chapter 46: To Be Forged Again,

(POV: Egwene),

p. 714-727,

Chapter Symbol: Oroborus & Wheel

 

Chapter 47: The One He Lost,

(POV: Rand),

p. 728-740,

Chapter Symbol: Rand's Dragon

 

Chapter 48: Reading the Commentary,

(POV: Min),

p. 741-748,

Chapter Symbol: Cadsuane's Hair Pins

 

Chapter 49: Just Another Man,

(POV: Rand),

p. 749-754,

Chapter Symbol: Avensdora Leaf

 

Chapter 50: Veins of Gold,

(POV: Rand),

p. 755-760,

Chapter Symbol: Rand's Dragon

 

Epilogue: Bathed in Light,

(POV: Egwene),

p. 761-765,

Chapter Symbol: Oroborus & Wheel

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Does anyone know where can i find the gathering storm as an e book.I ordered my copy from amazon but they still didn't sent me and i want to read the book asap.

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Oh, and the word "sent" in this context can only mean one thing. Intention.
See, that's just not true at all. And that's why you're wrong. The very reason you gave for why it had to be a lie was wrong, because that word doesn't mean what you think it means.
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