ROB_88

Who sent the aiel attackers?

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In LoC: chapter 22 when Mat is on the march towards Tear, he is attacked by a group of Aiel. he later finds out that they got there by a gateway.

 

now, who sent them there?

my first guess would be Sammael although it could very well be any of the Chosen. would Taim do something like that? can he even do that?

and also, were they Shaido Aiel, or Darkfriend Aiel.

 

 

 

and completely unrelated but similar. in LoC: chapter 46 one of the Salidar Aes Sedai in Caemlyn is attacked by Aiel in an alley and is then told to stay away from Rand.

we know Rand didn't send them, so who did? and for what purpose? to actually make them back away or to piss them off?

My first guess would again be any of the Chosen, or perhaps even Taim since he's wanted to do it since they first came in.

 

can it be Verin who ordered the attack in order to make the Aes Sedai lose any little control they had over him?

cause she got the confrontation in place afterwards that made him flee to Cairhien. so either she put the whole thing together or she just took advantage of the situation.

and maybe it's just me, but the attackers didn't seem to act very Aiel-ish.

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I seem to remember reading something that pretty much confirmed Taim was responsible for that second question of yours. It's been a while, and I don't remember the specfics. You're welcome, I know this has been completely unhelpful :D

 

I am curious now, too.....

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I've always thought it was Sammael that sent the Aiel but it's only because he's the only Forsaken known to deal with the Shaido. It couldn't be Taim because he's never met Mat. Who knows?

 

As for the "Aiel" who attacked Demira Eriff in Caemlyn, they were most definitely sent by Taim. It was the only way he could strike at the Aes Sedai in the city without Rand knowing.

 

They are not really "Aiel" because they were described as being "a squat fellow with villainous eyes." Aiel are tall and lean. They are also said to have "mocking black eyes", and no Aiel has black eyes.

 

The message "Tell the other witches to stay away from the Dragon Reborn" is another sign they are not Aiel as the Aiel do not see Rand as the Dragon Reborn, only the Car'a'carn nor call Aes Sedai "witches.".

 

It was basically done to foment discord between Rand and the Salidar Aes Sedai.

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There was a lengthy discussion about this on theoryland.net I believe about Demandred being behind the Aiel attack in Caemlyn on the singular Aes Sedai, to help spring Mesaana's trap in Cairhien.  Though, one would think Demandred would be more careful than to use people who were clearly not Aiel.

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Except that the attackers seemingly used a weak form of compulsion to get Demira into the alleyway.

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I've always thought it was Sammael that sent the Aiel but it's only because he's the only Forsaken known to deal with the Shaido. It couldn't be Taim because he's never met Mat. Who knows?

 

As for the "Aiel" who attacked Demira Eriff in Caemlyn, they were most definitely sent by Taim. It was the only way he could strike at the Aes Sedai in the city without Rand knowing.

 

They are not really "Aiel" because they were described as being "a squat fellow with villainous eyes." Aiel are tall and lean. They are also said to have "mocking black eyes", and no Aiel has black eyes.

 

The message "Tell the other witches to stay away from the Dragon Reborn" is another sign they are not Aiel as the Aiel do not see Rand as the Dragon Reborn, only the Car'a'carn nor call Aes Sedai "witches.".

 

It was basically done to foment discord between Rand and the Salidar Aes Sedai.

 

I think Verin did it in order to screw over the Salidar embassy, she wants Rand to go his own way.

 

Even if she wasn't behind it, she was there after the attack and knew enough about the Aiel to tell the embassy it wasn't them, but choose not to.

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Really?  ??? How so?

 

Demira chose to change her route and venture into the alleyway where she was attacked when a man leered at her--this is after she dismisses men leering at her several times in the course of the POV. Now consider the timing--the 'Aiel' were waiting in ambush in that alleyway, and at the exact same time had someone deliver a message to Demira's warder. Which means they were completely certain that Demira would enter that alleyway. Meanwhile she had no intention of doing so, and seemingly only did do so on a whim to avoid a man's lecherous gaze.

 

Now note the similarities between this sudden revulsion she feels for the way the man looked at her with Theodrin's description of her wilder trick. She could make boys want to kiss or, or she could repel them from doing so.

 

The final piece of evidence is the fact that Demira couldn't touch the source. She tried, and failed--now that's not inconcievable, she'd been stabbed and we've seen others fail under the same circumstances, but still, Demira didn't 'feel it trickle through her fingers', or 'feel like she was reaching through thick wool' as other such attempts are described--she reaches for it, scrabbles for it... but can't touch it.

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This page speculates about the 'aiel' attack on the Aes Sedia:

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/1_dark/1.4_whats-up-dark/1.4.07_demira.html

I doubt Verin since she is Light-sided and since she has been with the rebel Aes Sedia embassy during the whole time they were there.

The most likely person who ordered would to me be Fain.

 

Aiel attack on Mat, the Encyclopaedia site says this:

Suddenly he hears a noise and sees figures moving. He sees Talmanes approaching and shouts a warning. The dozen Aiel are killed at the cost of half again as many of Mat's men. Mat orders a ditch and palisade around the camp every night. As Mat goes back to his tent he sees that it is sliced open. There are also very cleanly cut ropes and grass indicating that the Aiel came through a gateway. One of the Forsaken sent the Aiel for him.2

# Sammael or one of the others?

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/books/loc/ch22.html

 

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Why Fain?  Because the attackers are pretty obviously his corrupted Whitecloaks.

 

The Aiel that Mat encounters are simply part of the random Shaido distribution that Sammael conducted.  Entirely accidental.

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Why Fain? Because the attackers are pretty obviously his corrupted Whitecloaks.

Your evidence for that being...?

 

The Aiel that Mat encounters are simply part of the random Shaido distribution that Sammael conducted. Entirely accidental.
Sammael can time-Travel then. The Shaido were scattered in ACoS, the attack was in LoC. About 60 days later.

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Taim is the only one who had threatened the Aes Sedai in Caemylyn.Fain would have no reason to attack  the Aes Sedai.

 

As for the atack on Mat, it most likely wsa Sammael because he is the only non-Rand allied channeler and Forsaken to have contact with the Shaido. He is also one of the few who knew Mat's location.

 

However, one problem with that. Why would the Aiel attack Mat? It makes no sense for them to be separated by "Caddar" and from Sevanna to only obey the commands of Caddar. (Incidentally, they could be the people who murdered the Tinkers)

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"Why Fain? Because the attackers are pretty obviously his corrupted Whitecloaks.

Your evidence for that being...?"

 

Who else refers to the Aes Sedai as "witches"  Fain hates Aes Sedai and wants to kill Rand himself.  I'd never given this much thought but the facts do seem to play out.

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The Aiel that Mat encounters are simply part of the random Shaido distribution that Sammael conducted.  Entirely accidental.

The time and destination are both wrong.  Like another posted, the spreading of the Shaido was near the end of Crown of Swords.  The Shaido were spread in the region of Illian through Ghealdan.

 

why would you pick Fain for the attack on Demira?

Short answer: 'Motive, Means, Opportunity'

Longer answer:

-He having an actual reason to want the Aes Sedia gone (to kill Rand).

-He having enough people to carry out the order (he mentions them in an earlier chapter of the book).

-He having time to order the attack.

 

Another reasons:

-other character's motives would be weak.

-not many others in the area would have enough people for it.

-other characters would have limited time to order it.

 

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Very good, but there is still the matter of the suspected use of compulsion on Demira.

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Hmmmm, guess you guys are right.  The timing would be wrong for the attackers to be part of Sam's random dispersal of Shaido.

 

So, who else do we find in the picture at about the right time?

 

How about Halima? 

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Quick question, other than Demandred's whereabouts and Verin's allegiances, is there any question in the World of the Wheel that has been debated more than this one?

 

And don't even mention Joar Addam Nessosin.

 

Asmoflamingdean's death practically has an entire series written about it by now.

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Mats luck and its origins dominates an entire 43-page thread and the majority of a smaller one, so i would say that that comes close.

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Nope.

 

Old site had an Asmo thread that was nearly 200 pages that disappeared in the software changeover.  There was another one after the changeover here in the General forum that exceeded 100 pages.  And, still the one in the Structured forum that's over 200 pages now.

 

There has been an entire LoC sized book of posts about Asmo's death.

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OMG! 200 pages!!!!! Just in case i didnt get the message across the first time.... OMG!!!

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It was Verin's doing.

Having been on WOT IRC/boards for over 21 years, my opinion has changed a lot regarding books, plots, characters, events etc. But regarding this "theory" (Verin being the culprit - such a naughty girl :wink: ) my mind has not changed at all.

I think Jordan comes at us with a hammer (LoC, 46, Demira's second pov): Verin, the real spider (Moggy is nothing compared to her), always starts invisible threads, constantly  p r o d s :wink:   (or rather commands) many people toward 'her' goals, that's makes her a/the most fascinating character.


I often feel that Verin and Taimdred are characters from the hands of Dürrenmatt. (This reminds me that Randmas is only seven weeks away, so if you have a book lover in your mind, you should buy them as a present this book: Friedrich Dürrenmatt: Selected Writings, Volume I, Plays (Hardcover) - an elegant, beautiful book, and the translation is quite good. Do not bother with the other volumes, they are worth nothing.) They are grotesque, caring, violent at the same time, toward Rand they really don't know what to do, they do this, they do that: what to do with him? love him? hate him? Someone should start a thread about Verin and Rand.
 

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I suspect Samm attacked Mat.  After all Mat was on the way down to take command of the armies to fight Samm also Samm had dealings with the Shaido so he is the one who would have an interest in seeing Mat didn't make it to Tear alive.  Also a way to make Rand's forces mistrust the Aiell.  Sadly I can't find anything that states specifically who sent the aiel.

 

Companion does confirm Demira's attackers were actually Fain's whitecloaks

Edited by Sabio

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