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Draven

ROBERT JORDAN: Literary Wh0re

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For the last 6 books of the WoT series, it is blatantly obvious that RJ has been deliberately stalling the ending--and for what other reason than profit? Unless he has OCD for writing the slowest fantasy story ever written, with the most number of useless characters, dialogues and subplots! I mean let's face it: How many pages were actually worth reading in books 6-11? Since LoC, RJ has done nothing but rip us off with page fillers full of unnecessary detail with only the endings worth noting--and not all endings at that! Then he recently released this 2-part young adult version of TEotW and these New Spring prequels--I mean, how much does he need to profit from the WoT books, anyway!? It's just that there are fans who just lap up everything RJ releases; while most of us, including me, just want to continue reading the story that we've already started to read, and would want nothing more than to see the damn story end once and for all! Indeed, let it end with MoL! But then RJ is not without his loss: The WoT could easily have been one of the greatest--if not THE greatest--fantasy epic of all time; except that that when "art for art's sake" becomes "art for profit's sake," art usually turns to crap.

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How many pages were actually worth reading in books 6-11?

The vast majority of them, I'd say. Winter's Heart was one of my favorites.

 

It's quite simple: if you don't want RJ to have your money, then start making use of your local public library.

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I truly disagree. I do beleive the story became a little unwieldy, but after reading the 4th book I knew it was going to be an immense story. I would agree if nothing happened in the later books, but thats not true. He has many main characters that he spent time growing that could not have been done in say 6 or 7 books. Also he has spent time nurturing secondary and third tier charachters like Galad and Gawayne. Also usually the publisher is responsible for stretching books and release dates to maximize profit. Not the authors.

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i was totally thinking the same thing, if you don't want to buy it, yet want to read it, the library is always an option

 

i think that my favourite was the lord of chaos, but i did like all of them

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i agree that the WoT series is getting a bit too long: when i got to the ninth book, i had to start over because i couldnt remeber enough about the previous books to understand it,but then again, that just proves that all the info in them had been necessary.

 

another example

 

quote: He has many main characters that he spent time growing that could not have been done in say 6 or 7 books.

 

all the characters had to change so much for them to fulfill their destinies as rj saw them when he began writing, and, i for one, am glad to see that rj is taking the time to show us how they changed, and to make us understand why. it would be horrible if you came back to one of Rands chapters, that left off with him chasing one of the forsaken, and it started by saying that he had killed the forsaken, and lost an eye, and then just continued. some books are like that, and, i for one, hate them. so instead of clomplaining about the lenght of the WoT, be happy that rj is doing this wonderful series justice[/b]

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Move along folks, Troll is in the area move along nothing to see here. Do Not Feed the Troll!

 

Now that i've got the wow out of my system.

I enjoyed books 1-11, and the prequils. Infact uptill book 11 was released, book 10 was my favorite.

 

Also, are you saying people with OCD are bad at what they do or something? I mean, how could you say Monk is bad at detective work! If anything it makes people with OCD more thorough with there work, and less plot holes.

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i think it couldve been done in a few less books but really i enjoyed everysingle one tht ive read so far (almost on 6) maybe about hmmm 50-100 pages in tFoH coulve been cut whith no one caring but almost every single wrighter does this also most of the time most of these pages led up to something or anothr so yea

 

as far as the money thing goes robert jordan doesnt get nearly as much money as J.K Rolling or Tolkein do.plus RJ hasnt done NEARLY as many books as Salvatore has

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We do enjoy your posts Draven... oh wait' date=' no we don't.[/quote']

 

Wow, that's rich! So this is the kind of joke that makes you such an intelligent joke critic, eh? Lame. And if you had any brains at all, you'd have realized that I didn't start the "ACTORS..." thread to offend gay people like you; nor did I include a poll to see whether my "jokes" are funny or not. But if you're such a pansy to be offended by such a light and off-handed gay joke, why don't you just avert the eyes of your Heath Ledger picture from the computer when you're reading my posts; or better yet just surf the net for gay porn and screw yourself! Besides, I don't see you being funny; and you being an "absolute joke" by being easily offended - and a Brokeback joke at that - isn't funny at all, just pathetic. So would you please stop this off-topic comments just to get noticed, and get a life? I can keep this "intellectual" discussion forever but, I'm not really crazy about dudes who just might be trying to get my attention and hit on me, because my username sounds obviously male!

 

Sorry about that folks, but this bug has been itching for it ever aince I first came here.

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i hate to do this to people, but u seriously need to calm down. for starters, luckers is a highly valued member of DM with some very insightful stuff, so unless your gonna go and start threads and justify plot possibilities instead of starting a thread to bag out the author of the series we're all into i seriously think we value his comments over yours. second, out of this post and the "gay comment post" that your referring to, luckers would have written a total of what? 2 or 3 lines that are involved, and you say he got worked up and all........you wrote a paragraph, little inconsistent

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Guest Majsju

Folks, let the staff handle this, ok. This is supposed to be a place for relaxed discussion, not flamefiestas after all :)

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For the last 6 books of the WoT series' date=' it is blatantly obvious that RJ has been deliberately stalling the ending--and for what other reason than profit? [/quote']

 

Is it blatantly obvious? Fine, there may have been some bits in books 7-10 that could have been cut out, although not everyone would agree, and I still think that the bits that could be cut out (without negatively affecting the book) would maybe have reduced the total amount of pages by half a book at most. The ending of WH was my favourite part in the whole series so far, and Kod was brilliant, all the more so for CoT's "calm before the storm" effect. Also, while RJ says the series will be done by book 12 I don't see how that is possible, I think there are far, far too many loose ends around to tie up in one book. He should do a bit more "deliberate stalling" IMO.

 

EDIT: Meh, posted before I read all the replies...

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I think he definitely could have done a good bit of editting-down in the last six, maybe to as few as three or four books. Even in the first five there are sections that were a touch drawn out and peripheral characters that were somewhat irrelavant, or could have been combined and/or streamlined a bit. However, he is far from the only author with that issue.

 

While profit is always a motivator, even for the "artist", I have a feeling it's more about him being very attached to his work. He explores the areas that interest him, sometimes at the expense of maintaining interest by moving the plot forward, but it's not like he's "mailing in" chapters just to drag things out. You can see the work he puts into every page, whether or not it is a scene or plotline that is terribly necessary to the overall scheme of things.

 

The true test will be in how he eventually wrap things up. A satisfying conclusion will help to smooth over some of the drifting in the middle. I can think of many great tales that I've finished reading only to wish there was more.

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6 and 9 are two of my favorites, actually. Maybe 7 and 8 could have been cut down a little bit, and 10 could have been summed up in a couple chapters, but I doubt RJ is stretching it on purpose. I think he keeps remembering things that he wants to put in the series, so he writes a couple chapters on it, even if they aren't essential to the series.

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I rather appreciate that RJ has deviated from the compulsion to follow a "pleasing formula" when it comes to these books. There's something more surprising about these books now and it's not there for the people who want a quick fix to appreciate.

 

I think towards the this latter end of this series, RJ's realized that you can't just have a chase sequence into a boss level confrontation every time, or at the same point in every installment. He's spending much more time with details and character moments, which is pretty cool. He also makes it a point that momentus moments don't have to be drawn out and melee in style. Take the Semhirage trap for instance...It wasn't a big battle sequence. It focused on Rand, who was taken out of the picture pretty fast by being theone to take the first hit. I think that was really daring.

If any of you are familiar with samurai movies...a fight is not always a choreographed 15 minute parrying fest. Sometimes a fight is all about the buildup. It could be over in a second for all we know. I like that tension. You could be overconfident and in a moment everything turns against you. It happens the other way around as well. You could have next to no chance of winning and at the turn of the wind, the battle goes your way almost miraculously.

 

I see RJ trying to work through these more realistic elements within the fantasy model. That's pretty exciting. I wish people would be more appreciative of it, but then again, video games are pretty popular. I guess a formulaic structure is a lot more pleasing sometimes.

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Good day.

 

I've being reading WoT for about 5 years now. After first 9 books I began to read them from the beginning again, simply because it is a very deep and complex series with a lot of different characters (that are very well portrayed in every sense of the word, I should say). This, in my personal opinion, is what makes a clear distinction between Mr. Jordan and the rest of the pack. If you look at the world he created, minus the One Power, it may easily be a history of the real word with the politics, wars, and economic stabilities or instabilities.

As to answer your question, Mr. Draven, Mr. Jordan simply writes the way he does. Yes, first three books did have a feel of the "completeness" and the overall closure. Farther more, perhaps there are some extra details that in some peoples' opinion should have been left out in the following 8 books. However, it is important to remember that different individuals read for different reasons. Some do it to simply kill a free time, others do it because they actually enjoy the story. To the second group, every detail and description is a welcomed addition to an overall picture.

As for you to call Robert Jordan "Wh0re" is not only disrespectful to Mr. Jordan himself, but also it is childish and ignorant gesture on your part. If you don't like his work, or you think that he writes his books for a simplistic capital gain, stop reading WoT . But before you go around and spit on someone's years of life and work ask yourself a question "What legacy will you leave after six feet of earth will separate you from this world?"

On a personal note, if it was up to me, not only I wish to see another 10 books about 3rd or 4th age, but I would love to read few books on how history of the world perceived the story of the Dragon Reborn 3 thousand years after his death.

 

I wish Mr. Jordan all the best and hope to see many great works to come.

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just one thing to say. y would you come and whine about RJ on his website. if you dont like him dont read the damn books. end of story.

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i really enjoy the rand and illian vs seanchan parts of book 8. i reckon that the way RJ did it, with both sides unsure as to what is happening, and the reader also feeling a bit disjointed, is very different to the approach he took for Dumai Wells, and both options are very appropriate to the style of battle each time

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I see there are a lot of negative feedbacks, but I really expected no less. But in my defense, I would say that it really is simply a matter of how you see it, and I stand by my conviction. I can say one thing, while ten thousand others would disagree, but in the end, there really is no way of knowing for certain which is right. (And I have met a lot of people who have the same opinion, after all.) RJ himself can say it's just the way he writes, but no one can get away with saying "I just do it for the money, ya'll!" without being despised, after all.

 

And it's quite easy for people to say "Just quit reading it," but it's not that simple, since I've been reading it for about 6 years, and I owe it to myself to finish it, after all those hours reading them. As for the public library thing, we don't have one here, much less one with fantasy books. But since CoT, I have just been reading summaries from certain websites, so as not to be "ripped off," to my convenience. As for the "literary whore" thing, I just thought it's a title that could catch attention (and it has to some extent), and I do believe it, after all; and apologize if I offended some fans.

But whether you agree with me or not, it's a great thing that we're discussing it: perhaps you could change my mind, and vice versa?

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If you are basing this all on reading summaryies you don't even deserve to make that post. Its like claiming farmers make tons of money with out knowing anything about farming. You don't know what you are talking about, so you can't voice your oppinion about it....

 

Reading summaries on a book, that was within weeks of being released called the 'worst book in the series' makes all the summaries biassed. The fact that you havent even read cot means you don't even care about finishing the series, and that you just want a 'quick fix'.

 

Coming to a website, and claimg X person is Y this, trying to get people to flame/argue with you is classic trolling behaviour..

 

And anyways, if RJ was a 'money whore' HE wouldn't allow people to write fanfiction, let alone give them an open invite to make a game based on it now would he? Even Tolkien of Spielberg *starwars* don't even allow that! And Tolkien's children are Money grubbing little brats, and spielberg is no less money grubbing.. Why don't you go to those 'fan forums' and acutally make a true case instead of one that isnt true? But then, True tolkien/starwars fans are more fanatic then us here...

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I see there are a lot of negative feedbacks, but I really expected no less. But in my defense, I would say that it really is simply a matter of how you see it, and I stand by my conviction. I can say one thing, while ten thousand others would disagree, but in the end, there really is no way of knowing for certain which is right. (And I have met a lot of people who have the same opinion, after all.) RJ himself can say it's just the way he writes, but no one can get away with saying "I just do it for the money, ya'll!" without being despised, after all.

 

And it's quite easy for people to say "Just quit reading it," but it's not that simple, since I've been reading it for about 6 years, and I owe it to myself to finish it, after all those hours reading them. As for the public library thing, we don't have one here, much less one with fantasy books. But since CoT, I have just been reading summaries from certain websites, so as not to be "ripped off," to my convenience. As for the "literary whore" thing, I just thought it's a title that could catch attention (and it has to some extent), and I do believe it, after all; and apologize if I offended some fans.

But whether you agree with me or not, it's a great thing that we're discussing it: perhaps you could change my mind, and vice versa?

 

Well, first of all, since you've actually stopped reading the actual books, what is the point of coming here besides to tell us that you've stopped and that you don't like them?

Think about it. The people who come here regularly, pretty much down to the last person, like these books and atually read them.

So Sinister is pretty much right that you are displaying rather played out Troll tendencies.

 

In your defence though Draven, I don't see what sinister is talking about so much with the fanfiction. Fanfiction is not real and it is pretty irrelevant seeing as no one is trying to sell those stories to make a profit. I doubt Tolkien's family is being harmed by fanfiction, and George Lucas is the brain behind Star Wars, not Steven Spielberg.

 

In any case, there is a point to the post. There are some doubts in peoples' minds about how this series is going and how it'll turn out. The topic (however crassly named) gives an opportunity to discuss the direction of the narrative. I welcome that oppotunity even if I have discussed it before. That's the beauty of this series though. My feelings about it change over time, ever so slightly. It's nice to take stock of where you're at with it. I still love it.

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Jonn i must salute you on how professionally you handled this situation and as to you Draven. Let me voice out my opinion regarding your post. If it were edited as you had suggested, would we see secondary and tertiary characters getting ANY depth whatsoever? Would we see the chaos and devoloution of society in Randland as it drew towards Tarmon Gaidon? Without all of the elaboration WoT would devolve into one of those shallow and superficial fantasy books that are solely there to entertain little children. And with regards to your rather rude comments to RJ and Luckers, please show some concern for RRJ's feelings. He is suffering from a fatal disease at the moment and now is the worst time for you to be insensitive. Also Luckers has contributed a lot to many intellectual discussions and threads made just for the fun of it. Therefore kindly refrain from degrading this forum into a FLAMELAND. In fact he's been here for months contributing to the DM community while you have been here for 6 days. So do not create an impression of Luckers from one thread

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I agree that many of the books could be narrowed down, I mean, didn't RJ say he was only gonna do 3 books, which turned into 5, then an unknown amount? I personally wouldn't have been surprised about a book 13 before I heard about book 12.

But you have to look at it this way, even if he could have cut it down to 12 would we really have wanted him too? The characters and the story are the way they are leading into MoL because of the length of the series.

And if RJ was a sellout, wouldn't he have pullied a JK Rowling/ Chris Paolini and written his books shorter and more condensed to creat a Movie? That's where the money for writers comes from after all.

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