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JenniferL

Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

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Two scenes I would love to see, but probably assuredly won't.

 

1. Rand/Lews Therin speaks with Cadsuane

 

R/LT - Summon Cadsuane, and the other Aes Sedai

*wait for them to show up*

Cadsuane - So Rand, you woolheaded boy-child-brat, you relent and are now ready for me to teach you manners.

R/LT - Actually, you can call me Lews Therin if you please, or I suppose Lews Sedai if you must. I who was first in the hall of servants, sat in the seat of Tamyrlin, summoned the nine rods of dominion, and imprisoned the dark one for the past three thousand years deserve at least that much respect.

Cadsuane - mouth agape, catching flies, vacant shocked stare. der... or ugh wha?

R/LT - Go, Cadsuane, to the white tower. Tell them to prepare for my arrival we have much to plan. Nemene was wrong, reintegration was possible, tell them I have returned and this time will be different.

Cadsuane - throws up a little in her mouth, and skulks away to be a messenger.

 

2. Egwene meets Tuon

Tuon - thinking, damn those marath'damane kicked my flying lizards hard. But I am the empress, above everyone, the dragon will bow to me, and I am so tot hot for mat. I can't believe the dragon talked me into meeting the marath'damane leader, but he must bow to me so I will allow this - wait why was I doing that again?

*Bunch of half bald nut jobs waiting while running through a list of who they can look in the eye, and who they have to bow to*

*Gateway opens, Tar Valon banner flying as the entourage of precedes her*

She Comes. The Watcher of the Seals. The Flame of Tar Valon. The Amyrlin Seat.

Tuon - uh.. wtf?

Egwene channels an inverted weave of air, unleashing all the damane. At her side are the captured Sul'dam and Damane from the WT invasion holding Saidar in a circle with Egwene.

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I wonder if Aviendha's ability in sensing Ter'angreal abilities will help Rand find out what Callandor can do, aside from being a Sa'Angreal.

 

Is it stated anywhere that Callandor is more than a sa'angreal??What makes you think it will have any other purpose?

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to wumpuss reply.... that would be awesome if LTT/Rand did that... i would hope that by the beginning of the 14th book that we should already know how Callandor can be wielded in a circle of 3. I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on who the 2 Aes Sedai might be. I think Rand will wield Callandor during the last battle with Nynaeve and Egwene with both Perrin and Mat at there sides producing the taveren effect..... this would be a good ending with all the Two Rivers main characters back in action together at the same time

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Bob you're nuts.  I say that in a fond and gentle way, like one might say to his crazy cat that won't stop clawing his feet at night...

 

Of course I'm nuts.  I read fantasy.  And, enjoy it.  I even sometimes post as though these are real people who have control over their actions, not characters in a book being tightly controlled by the author.  Totally sane people don't do that.

 

I'll stand by those off-the-cuff predictions, though.

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One of my ideas is that the three become one might be in reference to the White tower, the Black tower, and the Towers of Midnight (assuming that's where the Seanchan train damane) joining together once Rand has bound the nine moons to him.

 

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I think the prologue should contain a POV of a male channeler just chilling around minding his own business when OMGWTFBBQSAUCE THERE'S A HUGE SURGE OF SAIDIN IN THE SKY WHAT'S GOING ON

 

:P

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I think the prologue should contain a POV of a male channeler just chilling around minding his own business when OMGWTFBBQSAUCE THERE'S A HUGE SURGE OF SAIDIN IN THE SKY WHAT'S GOING ON

 

:P

 

GAH, not that. ANYTHING but that.  I'd rather watch Asmodean dance the Sasara on Graendal's grave.

 

Okay, now that I'm imagining it, that could be pretty fun to watch.  But still, don't even suggest such things.  BS reads the forums.  He might start getting ideas!

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I think the prologue should contain a POV of a male channeler just chilling around minding his own business when OMGWTFBBQSAUCE THERE'S A HUGE SURGE OF SAIDIN IN THE SKY WHAT'S GOING ON

 

:P

 

GAH, not that. ANYTHING but that.  I'd rather watch Asmodean dance the Sasara on Graendal's grave.

 

Okay, now that I'm imagining it, that could be pretty fun to watch.  But still, don't even suggest such things.  BS reads the forums.  He might start getting ideas!

 

Nothing like it was in CoT, mind you, definitely not that again! Maybe just a few paragraphs to end the prologue, AND THAT'S IT.  It could help show how the world is in such a mess, and people are starting to give up hope and panic. Would you be reassured if you felt enough saidin being channeled to tear apart reality itself in the sky? Cuz I'd be more than a little freaked myself.

 

Edit: What might make that really interesting would be if it came from Moridin's POV.

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Elayne and Aviendha really have no relevance to Rand's story besides as romantic interests.

 

You're forgetting Elaida's fortelling that the house of Trakand is the key to winning TG.

 

 

I'm not positive on this- but I think it said the Royal Family of Andor- not House Trakand specifically- and Rand's Mother is Tigraine- who was Daughter Heir before she went to the Blight.

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Elayne and Aviendha really have no relevance to Rand's story besides as romantic interests.

 

You're forgetting Elaida's fortelling that the house of Trakand is the key to winning TG.

 

 

I'm not positive on this- but I think it said the Royal Family of Andor- not House Trakand specifically- and Rand's Mother is Tigraine- who was Daughter Heir before she went to the Blight.

 

exactly. that's why we've been rolling our eyes at Elaida's single-mindedness since we had our first PoV from her, although in fairness I suppose she couldn't have known

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I wonder if the title in addition to speaking metaforically about how dark the world is getting could also mean we'll have some action in the black tower and tower of ghenji? If previous naming conventions are any guide, I'm probably way off base here, however, I think there could be something there if only by coincidence! :)

 

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exactly. that's why we've been rolling our eyes at Elaida's single-mindedness since we had our first PoV from her, although in fairness I suppose she couldn't have known

 

I wouldn't cut her too much slack.  She knew full well who held the throne and the daughter heir was when she had the foretelling.  She waited until she had atained the shawl, then she waited until House Trakand won the throne.  She then interpreted the fortelling in the most convienient way possible that served her needs. 

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exactly. that's why we've been rolling our eyes at Elaida's single-mindedness since we had our first PoV from her, although in fairness I suppose she couldn't have known

 

I wouldn't cut her too much slack.  She knew full well who held the throne and the daughter heir was when she had the foretelling.  She waited until she had atained the shawl, then she waited until House Trakand won the throne.  She then interpreted the fortelling in the most convienient way possible that served her needs. 

 

And, isn't that just Elaida, through and through.  The only character in the series demonstrably dumber and crazier than the Forsaken.

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exactly. that's why we've been rolling our eyes at Elaida's single-mindedness since we had our first PoV from her, although in fairness I suppose she couldn't have known

 

I wouldn't cut her too much slack.  She knew full well who held the throne and the daughter heir was when she had the foretelling.  She waited until she had atained the shawl, then she waited until House Trakand won the throne.  She then interpreted the fortelling in the most convienient way possible that served her needs. 

 

And, isn't that just Elaida, through and through.  The only character in the series demonstrably dumber and crazier than the Forsaken.

 

You hit the nail on the head Bob...  My only disapointment with Elida's fate is that she never found out how wrong her assumption was... I envisioned her disclosing the fortelling only to have Rand say, "Really?  You'll never guess who my mother was. Looks like you wasted a few decades..."

Unrealistic I know, but...

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First time poster, so if this isn't the right place, please point me in the right direction.  I have some thoughts on where things are heading that fit into this discussion.

 

1. I think the end result of the story will be the DO sealed forever outside the pattern, and both the TP and the OP will be rendered inaccessible. Not really sure how, but this is what I see - "magic" will no longer happen.

 

2. I think Rand will indeed use Callandor with 2 women (3 in 1). I think Alivia is a natch, with Nynavae most likely the other.

 

3. I agree with those that guess Tuon will wear the adam at some point, and be shown the brutality therein which causes her to reform the whole arrangement with the chan, and in turn clearing the obstacles from the chan and randlanders becoming BFF's prior to TG.

 

4. More than anything else, I think arrogance and pride are the enemy right now, and the new Rand will help show the way to humility which will ultimately bring the various factions of light together. I think Rand will indeed kneel to both the White Tower and the crystal terangreal, probably others besides. And in doing so, they will follow him - not by force, but by love.

 

Side note - I am 99% sure that Jordan wrote the last chapter, and I think Brandon broght us to that point, and let the big guy take over.  Just in the way the chapter break happens just before, as i read it I almost expected to see a footnote saying just that.  But to me, veins of gold was my favorite chapter in the series thus far. Rand received the message that will allow the light to win.

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First time poster, so if this isn't the right place, please point me in the right direction.  I have some thoughts on where things are heading that fit into this discussion.

 

1. I think the end result of the story will be the DO sealed forever outside the pattern, and both the TP and the OP will be rendered inaccessible. Not really sure how, but this is what I see - "magic" will no longer happen.

 

I don't know it seems like it would esentially still/gentle all the channelers in the world, but i suppose if our world is supposed to be one of the turning of the wheel that would ahve to happen at some point.  Just seems a bit sour knowing that a good % of the main characters will be just wanting to roll over and die now that they are cut off from the OP.

 

2. I think Rand will indeed use Callandor with 2 women (3 in 1). I think Alivia is a natch, with Nynavae most likely the other.

 

I pretty much agree although I think Moraine might be used instead of Nyn.

 

3. I agree with those that guess Tuon will wear the adam at some point, and be shown the brutality therein which causes her to reform the whole arrangement with the chan, and in turn clearing the obstacles from the chan and randlanders becoming BFF's prior to TG.

 

I just don't see it being likely she still has like 6 more years of being tested for the collar. It just seems unlikely to me that she has used it enough to be held by it.

 

4. More than anything else, I think arrogance and pride are the enemy right now, and the new Rand will help show the way to humility which will ultimately bring the various factions of light together. I think Rand will indeed kneel to both the White Tower and the crystal terangreal, probably others besides. And in doing so, they will follow him - not by force, but by love.

 

Ishmael corrupted the Seanchan prophecies so they are almost certainly false and Rand will not need to bow before the Crystal throne.  Still I think him taking a little more diplomatic approach might be useful.

 

Side note - I am 99% sure that Jordan wrote the last chapter, and I think Brandon broght us to that point, and let the big guy take over.  Just in the way the chapter break happens just before, as i read it I almost expected to see a footnote saying just that.  But to me, veins of gold was my favorite chapter in the series thus far. Rand received the message that will allow the light to win.

 

Well BS has said that none of that will be revealed until after AMOL is out if ever.  So it will be a while before we can know for sure.  I hope the information does get released will be interesting to see if any of the sections people are going crazy over were really written by RJ :-)

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Some people mention Fain having a hand in defeating the DO.  I cannot imagine the story ending up like that because it would be waaaaaaay to similar to Lord of the Rings with Gollum destroying the ring at the end.  Given that already wrote the end and this series from the begining broke the old Tolkein "fantasy" mold, i cant imagine RJ would end this epic like that.  it would be really disappointing.

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One of my ideas is that the three become one might be in reference to the White tower, the Black tower, and the Towers of Midnight (assuming that's where the Seanchan train damane) joining together once Rand has bound the nine moons to him.

 

I believe the three must unite refers to saidar, saidin, and the true power.  Somehow Callandor is involved too.  Callandor is unstable unless it is controlled by a female channeler.  I believe all three powers are necessary to reseal the bore, and remake the seals.  That was the mistake the was made by the Aes Sedai at the end of the Age of Legends.  They had only the male channelers.  I suspect that if the female channelers involved both halves of the one power would have become tainted.  Maybe that was the dark one's plan in the first place, tainting both halves of the one power. 

One more thing I think the 3 wielders will Alivia, Rand, and Moridin.  Each will die in the process.

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But to me, veins of gold was my favorite chapter in the series thus far. Rand received the message that will allow the light to win.

 

Loved it too, but from what I've read of the postings so far (and not to pick on your quote in particular), I have a feeling that many have missed the point of this chapter. We know that from the start of the series RJ was thinking of a Christ-Like sacrificial figure. I might need some help here, but if I remember right, he said he was thinking of a Messianic figure in a world where women had power, and that's how the idea came to him.

 

To put it in Biblical terms, "Veins of Gold" was Rand's Garden of Gethsemane. Rand has now completed his internal struggle of the "why," and is ready to be that savior.

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Others have mentioned most of this before but I figured I'd throw my thoughts out there.

 

Somehow the DO needs Rand in order to win.  I know most of the books say Rand is needed to prevent the DO from winning, but the DO's actions indicate he needs Rand for something.  The only time the DO seemed willing to kill Rand was when he was cleansing Saidin, so it seems that is at least as important as Rand to the DO's goals.

 

RJ has said that in past turning's when Rand has gone over to the DO the result has been a draw so it seems Rand isn't the only thing the DO needs to win and/or the forces of light have managed to stop Rand before he could help the DO win.

 

So it would seem with the light's chances for winning being the smallest sliver of hope the most likely outcome is a draw not the DO winning.  I don't know what a draw would mean maybe it is just another tainting and then 3000 years until the dragon can be reborn again.  Which is prolly the best case scenario

 

I think the DO needs Rand to somehow completely free him from his prison.  So there must be something else about Rand other then his ability to channel that will allow the DO to break free.  And since the DO seems to want Perrin and Mat dead it seems it isn't just his Ta'veren nature that is needed either. 

 

I think Rand might be something beyond Ta'veren where normal Ta'veren are pushed around by the pattern I think Rand might have the ability to shape the pattern to his will.  Maybe he needs the OP as well to do this or at least to do it on the level necessary for the LB

 

I am thinking that somehow the pressence of Perrin and Mat at the last battle will somehow make the pattern more mallable for Rand and he will be able to either reform the DO's prison or build an entirely new prison around the DO after he destroy's the old one.

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RJ has said that in past turning's when Rand has gone over to the DO the result has been a draw so it seems Rand isn't the only thing the DO needs to win and/or the forces of light have managed to stop Rand before he could help the DO win.

 

So it would seem with the light's chances for winning being the smallest sliver of hope the most likely outcome is a draw not the DO winning.  I don't know what a draw would mean maybe it is just another tainting and then 3000 years until the dragon can be reborn again.  Which is prolly the best case scenario

 

The DO, of course, only has to win once for everything to be over. Conversely, it seems that from the last chapter of TGS that every turning of the Wheel thus far has been a "draw," namely that the DO is sealed up but not permanently, because in the end, he is freed again in the AoL. This is the crux of the frustration Rand had to deal with at the end of the book -- essentially, the same reasons that Elan crossed over to the Shadow, because he believed the end of all things was inevitable. In "Veins of Gold" Rand remembers the many, many past lives of the Dragon, and thinks about how he "wants to do things right this time." This suggests that there actually is a way to end the struggle with the DO once and for all.

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I doubt it will be the end of the DO, perhaps he is defeated and some other evil takes his place, because he is essential for the universe, yin and yang and all that.

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I doubt it will be the end of the DO, perhaps he is defeated and some other evil takes his place, because he is essential for the universe, yin and yang and all that.

 

DO exit stage left

Padan Fain enter stage you mean? ;)

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Something like that, perhaps the DO becomes the DO by something really evil being placed inside the prison, then over the ages slowly turns into the personification of evil.

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