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I finally understand why don't like Perrin's post-LOC storylines

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Which is basically saying that women weaker than men is more usual than he was saying, and a bigger gulf than he was saying.

Yes, basically I said that there is a much bigger "gulf" than he was saying.

 

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Which is basically saying that women weaker than men is more usual than he was saying, and a bigger gulf than he was saying.

Yes, basically I said that there is a much bigger "gulf" than he was saying.
So you're pretty much agreeing.

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I think the problem lies elsewhere.

 

Only Rand (and Mat) can carry his storylines own his own. Perrin is not capable of this. Eg is a special case, because her supporting cast is exceptionally strong; the twins (Nyn and EL), when they are separated from each other, cannot reach their potential anymore. (Reducing Nyn to nothing isn't useful at all, but her storyline ends in LOC, so lo and behold, we have another problem)

And readers know that his storyline is rather meaningless and boring (there are great moments in his chapters - very sparsely, I should add), but putting together a cast like this: Perrin, Faile, Berelain, Morgase, Lini, Tallanvor etc. is the surest way to ruin a plotline. Not to mention that Jordan constantly puts phone books before us: names, names, names - limited space, too many characters, how do you paint them in different colours?

You could say, and you did say, that give them more pages, and they can achieve their full potential, but there's a kickback. Simply and solely, there is no coming back from assembling so many bland people into one group. Jordan tries to give us a little flavour (Wos, AS etc) but it's worth as much as a kiss to a dead person.

 

(The heroic moments are taken away by Rand, the funny/interesting things by Mat, so poor Perrin was left with monotonous/boring everyday life.)

 

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5 hours ago, jack of shadows said:

and yet,according to you,poor perrin is second only to rand in words count LOL.

 

Yes, there are strage things in WOT.

 

I can/do/will not deny that Perrin is the second/third most popular character  Actually, I think, there was a period when he was de facto the fan favourite.

 

It just pains me what Jordan did to him.

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Matt was always fun, Rand was the primary driver and Perrin, well, I sighed a lot reading him.

 

I actually agree with this post completely; I'll toss Elanye as another useless arc. She does nothing in her time in Andor that adds anything to her character...we see political scheming (other plots), assassinations (other plots), and ... a discussion of pregancy and ruling? Ok, cool, but it's not very relivant. Her role in AMoL is to provide an army; she can do that without the wasted space.

 

Perrin at least contributes more to AMoL (his dream-fighting) but that easily could have been worked in as he traveled with Rand.

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On 1/31/2018 at 10:20 PM, Tyzack said:

 I'll toss Elanye as another useless arc. She does nothing in her time in Andor that adds anything to her character...we see political scheming (other plots), assassinations (other plots), and ... a discussion of pregancy and ruling? Ok, cool, but it's not very relivant.

 

The series is mostly about characters, is about their reactions to the world, the changes in the world, is about the interactions between them etc.  And while we get 'endless' pages about How to rule a contry, Jordan drops a half sentence (this is the maximum we get) about personal things between  El and Avi and other people. I want to know their thoughts about Rand, Eg etc.

 

I have no problem with her pregnancy, I like the (in)famous bath scene, but I feel that her plotline was a reaction to the critics that WOT has zero politics. It's the biggest adventure in the world, we don't need to see her groping in the dark about how to secure her reign, no, let's all aboard the adventure train, and ride off into doing something. If the readers want to know more about El's manoeuvres, then they will get an outrigger novel with very detailed what happened to her during this x months.  

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3 hours ago, szilard said:

 

The series is mostly about characters, is about their reactions to the world, the changes in the world, is about the interactions between them etc.  And while we get 'endless' pages about How to rule a contry, Jordan drops a half sentence (this is the maximum we get) about personal things between  El and Avi and other people. I want to know their thoughts about Rand, Eg etc.

 

I have no problem with her pregnancy, I like the (in)famous bath scene, but I feel that her plotline was a reaction to the critics that WOT has zero politics. It's the biggest adventure in the world, we don't need to see her groping in the dark about how to secure her reign, no, let's all aboard the adventure train, and ride off into doing something. If the readers want to know more about El's manoeuvres, then they will get an outrigger novel with very detailed what happened to her during this x months.  

 

I think WOT is different to everyone. To me, it's more than just an adventure book. The first 3 books were adventure books. Latter books were less about adventure than great battles and political intrigue.

 

Personally, I love Perrin and Faile's arc; You said earlier that Perrin was stuck with the boring, everyday life stuff, and that's exactly what I love about it. It's a depiction of how real marriages work, in the middle of a fantasy epic.

 

People get too hung up on Faile's jealousy and Perrin's obstinance. Those are just superficialities. When you marry someone, you marry all their strengths and flaws, and you come to cherish their flaws as much as you cherish their strengths, even if that is not always apparent.

Edited by solarz

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I didn't mind either Perrin or Elyanes arc when I listened to the books - you are right esp abount Perrin, it was some of "lets check in with some normies"

 

I disagree that there were no politics w/o Elyane, what I didn't like is that for a few books we had two different plots that were essentially the same - Egwene and and Elyane were both thrust into positions of power when they were young and had to learn how to deal with people dismissing them without having to reley on their "i can call on lighting" - abilities. That's a really cool story, but I only needed one of them.

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2 hours ago, Tyzack said:

I didn't mind either Perrin or Elyanes arc when I listened to the books - you are right esp abount Perrin, it was some of "lets check in with some normies"

 

I disagree that there were no politics w/o Elyane, what I didn't like is that for a few books we had two different plots that were essentially the same - Egwene and and Elyane were both thrust into positions of power when they were young and had to learn how to deal with people dismissing them without having to reley on their "i can call on lighting" - abilities. That's a really cool story, but I only needed one of them.

 

Very true. Honestly, Elayne's arc was one of the arcs that could have been wrapped up much more quickly.

 

Realistically, Elayne could easily have used the Aiel to forcibly take over the throne, destroying any opposing houses. Any mutters about her legitimacy would have been easily quashed by the facts that one, she is the daughter-heir, and two, the Dragon Reborn supports her. Both Tear and Cairhien had been subdued easily enough, there was no realistic reason why Andor would not have been as easily handled.

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On 9/19/2009 at 9:02 AM, Mystica said:

Perrin used to be my favorite too, till he met up with Faile. I understand the Saldean habit of wanting a man be strong enough to let the woman be as strong as she can be, but honestly.... This snivling excuse for a blacksmith is just boring. The only thing she cares about is seeing her name in the history books. Just like any other fool Hunter for the Horn. She'd probably be kicking and screaming if she ever met a guy that really stood up to her nonsense. A guy like Mat, for instance.

 

Mat is just about the perfect type (for me at least). Doesn't take crap from anyone, isn't impressed with titles or rank, knows how to enjoy the simple things in life, is ambitious enough to improve himself, is funny as hell even when he doesn't want to be, motivates people without scaring the living daylights out of them, knows his priorities and doesn't lose sight of what's important even if he does do his damndest to wriggle his butt out of responsibility. He always ends up doing the right thing, even without his luck (such as saving women that wouldn't recognise gratitude if it slapped them in the face) and he's man enough to recognise ability and achievement in others regardless of who they are, what they have or what fool type rank, title or money they have.

 

Perrin is just boring compared to Mat. Hell, Rand is boring compared to Mat.

 

I could be happy with a full series on Mat alone ;D

I totally agree! Mat really is my dream guy! ;D and I loved how his band and everyone who came in his path was family. I could read many books on Mat! 

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My main problem with Perin was Faile. Horrible woman. And I'm serious: literally abusive while justifying her abuse in terms of love for Perin. His affection and dedication was inexplicable: nothing ever suggested a reason for it, we are simply told that he loves her, and that's that. Everything else is supposed to make sense. But she is basically contemptible for the entire series! Very frusterating.

 

More generally, I hated the wolf-dream stuff. Not the weirdness of the world of dreams, that was fun. But the fights with Slayer painfully reminds me of 13-year-old kids who fantasize about fighting battles as astral projections. Watch out, I'll IMAGINE YOU DEAD SO HARD THAT YOU ACTUALLY DIE. Just... really corny. 

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Wolf Dream stuff went on way too long.  Perin was just always so moody all of his I won't let you hurt the prisoners tantrum,it seemed as if the longer the series went Perin just became more and more unlikeable.  Perins stories just dragged on, wolf dream, Faile rescue, not understanding Faile wanting him to yell etc..  Just seemed like As Mat was going from place to place, Perin was still doing the same stuff.

Edited by Sabio

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I have alway felt that he was a mismanaged character.  I would have like to have seem more of him rising to power in the two rivers.  Fighting bands of trollics could have be developed more.  He could have confronted the queen and demand independence.  It would have fit with his home body personality.   Imagine the conflict Elaine and Perin could have had.  

 

The wolf dream was a mixed bag.  Some of it was good much of it was boring.  I also feel like the White Cloak story line dragged as did the Fieale captured storyline.   It almost feels like as the series progressed Rj ran out of things for Perin to do so he dragged out his story lines. 

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