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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Chapter 1 - Spoilers - First Impressions, Thoughts


bscuga
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Read it first time yesterday. Read it again today. I'm pretty pleased with Brandon's style of writing this, so getting more excited by the day. :)

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I agree Luckers.  The scabbard may have nothing to do with the actual sword that was given to him.

 

It's Justice.  Who wants to bet on it?  ;D

 

Agreed.

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As I recall wasn't Justice a double-handed sword, akin to Rand's old swords. I don't know too much about how swords differ between the two styles, so maybe some guru could throw in on this?

 

Well I'm certainly not a "guru" or anything, I believe there is evidence to support Justice being a one-handed sword.

 

This is the scene in The Great Hunt where Rand meets Hawkwing:

 

He knew the man who rode at their head, too. Tall and hook-nosed, with dark, deep-set eyes, his great sword Justice at his side. Artur Hawkwing.

 

The Great Hunt, Chapter 47

 

Notice my emphasis. If Hawkwing's sword was truly a greatsword in any literal sense, it would seem to make more sense for him to wear it strapped across his back, rather than at his side. Otherwise it would be extremely cumbersome to carry and difficult to withdraw. Also, it would be impossible to withdraw with both hands because the hand on the same side as the sword wouldn't be able to extend far enough.

 

Secondly, I'd like to point out another reference to Justice, this one also coming from The Great Hunt, Chapter 47.

 

Justice shone like a mirror in Artur Hawkwing's gauntleted fist.

 

Here we have an instance where Hawkwing is actually holding his sword in one hand. Admittedly even were Justice a greatsword this would not be impossible (or improbably done, for that matter), but I would venture to say that it would certainly be difficult to hold and balance in one hand.

 

Thirdly, in The Shadow Rising, Chapter 9 we see the "legendary sword Justice," as opposed to the "legendary great sword Justice." The implication, then, is that the sword is not a greatsword.

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Excellent observations.  That puts it to rest for me.  But, I've been wrong plenty of times before...  I like to think that it is either Justice (most likely) or that sa'angreal that has yet to be found.  Or, even better, both.

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for some reason there is this nagging feeling that im missing something from previous books about this sword.  undoubtedly rand would recognize justice from when he met hawkwing in TGH, and the prophecies do say the sword of justice will shelter us or something like that. i just think that its kind of too obvious for one of RJ's plotlines.  he liked to mix things up a little more, with more unpredictability i guess?  im thinking maybe rand saw it in the dream world, or possibly in one of the many books hes read. just pure supposition, no real evidence for or against, feel free to disagree and or expand upon...

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I just checked the stephen cooper timeline and the answer is that Tuon was not back in Ebou Dar yet. Rand sends the sul'dam back on Aine 25, Nynaeve's comment puts that scene only a few days after that. Between Aine 28 and Adar 3, I would guess. Tuon arrives back at Ebou Dar around Adar 15.

 

From Chapter 1:Tears from Steel

This building was one in a long line of manors, estates and other remote hiding places Rand had used during the last few weeks. He’d wanted to keep moving, jumping from location to location, following the failed meeting with Semirhage.

 

This quote from Rand suggest that it's more than just a few days after Rand lost his hand, more likely a few weeks.

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For some reason I just don't think it's Justice. It just doesn't feel right. It says that the scabbard itself was centuries old and that had the Dragon painted on it, so there's no way it's Justice. Unless Hawkwing was using LTT's old sword. I'd say it's either the sa'angreal, Guaire Amalasan's, or LTT's old sword.

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Nynaeve--is being groomed to replace Cadsuane as errant, reblious Aes Sedai. Notice how Brandon compares them--clothing, ter'angreal, actions. I think that pretty much spells doom for Lan though.

 

 

 

I have been saying this for years, about time you are catching up ;D

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Nynaeve--is being groomed to replace Cadsuane as errant, reblious Aes Sedai. Notice how Brandon compares them--clothing, ter'angreal, actions. I think that pretty much spells doom for Lan though.

 

 

 

I have been saying this for years, about time you are catching up ;D

 

I've been saying it for years, too. Remember.

I just checked the stephen cooper timeline and the answer is that Tuon was not back in Ebou Dar yet. Rand sends the sul'dam back on Aine 25, Nynaeve's comment puts that scene only a few days after that. Between Aine 28 and Adar 3, I would guess. Tuon arrives back at Ebou Dar around Adar 15.

 

From Chapter 1:Tears from Steel

This building was one in a long line of manors, estates and other remote hiding places Rand had used during the last few weeks. Hed wanted to keep moving, jumping from location to location, following the failed meeting with Semirhage.

 

This quote from Rand suggest that it's more than just a few days after Rand lost his hand, more likely a few weeks.

 

Ah, true. Nynaeve's comment of 'days' of questioning, as opposed to weeks, which would seem more reasonable, threw me off.

 

Still, that means Tuon will have only just returned--she may have on just learnt of the offer, and there are things she has to do. Or, as i pointed out, Suroth may have killed the sul'dam.

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I dunno though, two sword sa'angreal...?

 

Not to mention the fact that Rand thinks to himself that his instinct of going for his sword was stupid when he could use Saidin and make a more potent weapon and that it was going to end up getting him killed so he needed to lose that instinct. If it was a Ter'Angreal or Sa'Angreal he almost certaintly would at least hold it like a sword. That means to me it's just symbolic in nature. Probably is Justice and could help in the truce with Tuon.

 

On the issue of what I personally thought of it...I honestly don't know yet. I think it's too early to decide.

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I agree with Kovan, will have to think about it more. The whole chapter's just sitting in my mind at the moment. I don't really feel much vibe from it. Nothing significant stood out. :-\

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"There were ten of them in the camp, though only Flynn, Naeff and Narishma were full Asha'man."

 

Perhaps it's a typo, the chapter is full of them, but I don't remember an Asha'man named Naeff at all.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Naeff is going to be like an extra in the opening scene of the original Star Trek....soon to be toast.

 

I agree that Sanderson wrote it, just doesn't have the feel of RJ.  Nor should it, of course, it's not bad, just "different".  But to be honest, even if it were horribly written, I would read it just to get the story.  I've read books that were poorly written that had a good story (anyone read much Tom Clancy?) and books that were wonderfully written and I hated the stories (Stephen King).

 

I printed it out for my sons, who introduced me to this series, and I was surprised, they acted as if I were handing them a red adder.  They both say they will wait until the book comes out.  One even says he will wait until ALL THREE come out....much more patient that I am, I can't wait!!

 

 

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Leather rots when buried. It's highly unlikely that the original scabbard survived centuries of buriel, and therefore the current scabbard was made as wrapping for the gift.

 

 

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It's written in a rather misleading way that almost implies that the scabbard is what they recently found and gave to him. I agree though that it is the sword and it's likely that the scabbard was made specifically to give to him as a gift.

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From Chapter 1:Tears from Steel

This building was one in a long line of manors, estates and other remote hiding places Rand had used during the last few weeks. He’d wanted to keep moving, jumping from location to location, following the failed meeting with Semirhage.

 

This quote from Rand suggest that it's more than just a few days after Rand lost his hand, more likely a few weeks.

 

Ah, true. Nynaeve's comment of 'days' of questioning, as opposed to weeks, which would seem more reasonable, threw me off.

Both could be correct. Rand has been using a long line of remote hiding spots. He talks about the one in Tear attacked in KOD, so that sentence could include that time. So you could get weeks of moving including in Tear, then days since the failed meeting with Semirhage. There's not enough in chapter 1 to give a definitive answer one way or the other.

 

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Leather rots when buried. It's highly unlikely that the original scabbard survived centuries of buriel, and therefore the current scabbard was made as wrapping for the gift.

 

 

 

Of course it is made by power-wrought leather. And the sword is a superstrong sa'angreal that was made especially for LTT, and which he also used to chop off Illyenas head. When LTT ran off to OD the OP, Ishy stole it, and entertained himself in the prison by swordwhipping Lanfear (which is the real reason why she is so angry all the time), until he lost it during one of his walkabouts, after a fairly successful attempt at making his own cognac.

 

Or, maybe it is just Justice...

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You realise you just made some fans believe that it IS power-wrought leather, and thus everything else you stated is true?

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Is leather ever Laquered though? I was under the impression that it was wood since it was painted. I even have a Katana IRL with a wood sheath so I know it's possible.

 

Why would Artur Hawking use a power wrought sword? How would he even get one? Why are we assuming that Justice is a power wrought sword?

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Its definitely not a leather sheath.  It must be wood due to the lacquer.

 

The POV somewhat implies that the scabbard was buried as well so it makes you wonder who would have dragons on their scabbard.  A former false dragon doesn't necessarily fit either (we've had Guaire Amalasian's name tossed out there) as Guaire didn't use a Dragon Banner.  He used the Aes Sedai symbol on a field of blue as his banner.

 

So basically, why I think its Justice, we have no idea without more info (hopefully in the prologue).

 

 

Why would Artur Hawking use a power wrought sword? How would he even get one? Why are we assuming that Justice is a power wrought sword?

 

How did Lan get one, or Laman, or Tam for that matter.  Remember, Hawkwing was a king even before he became High King.  He would easily have access to a Power-wrought weapon.  And just as Lan and Laman's swords were power wrought, it would make sense that he have a blade worthy of his high office.  The assumption that Justice is powerwrought is because it is talked about in such a special way.  Otherwise, you'd think that he likely had to replace it at some point in his life due to use or  breakage. 

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Its definitely not a leather sheath.  It must be wood due to the lacquer.

 

The POV somewhat implies that the scabbard was buried as well so it makes you wonder who would have dragons on their scabbard.  A former false dragon doesn't necessarily fit either (we've had Guaire Amalasian's name tossed out there) as Guaire didn't use a Dragon Banner.  He used the Aes Sedai symbol on a field of blue as his banner.

 

So basically, why I think its Justice, we have no idea without more info (hopefully in the prologue).

 

 

Why would Artur Hawking use a power wrought sword? How would he even get one? Why are we assuming that Justice is a power wrought sword?

 

How did Lan get one, or Laman, or Tam for that matter.  Remember, Hawkwing was a king even before he became High King.  He would easily have access to a Power-wrought weapon.  And just as Lan and Laman's swords were power wrought, it would make sense that he have a blade worthy of his high office.  The assumption that Justice is powerwrought is because it is talked about in such a special way.  Otherwise, you'd think that he likely had to replace it at some point in his life due to use or  breakage. 

 

We know of 4 powerwrought swords and all but Tam's are definitely royal. Lan's, Laman's, and Kandor's sword of Kirukan. I always assumed Tam's sword was a gift from the King of Illian for his rescue by the companions during the whitecloak war.

 

I'd be stunned if Hawkwing didn't have one. I would assume that the further back in history you go the more common the swords were. 

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