I hate Rand al thor

[Inveli]

Why is anyone even replying to this.... The argument has long since become redundant. 

 

Your right. He is too narrow-minded. Even with all the reasons we gave him.

 

Yes yes, I agree. I thought I was bad for bashing some characters but I see that I have been outdone and cast out of the Most Negative Person post... I was really good at it too : (

take heart Wavemistress, he has gained the tops for men, you can still keep the woman's title   ;)

 

I was talking about the guy who submitted this topic in the first place.

[Inveli]

the dragon reborn almost killed his own friend. saviour? nah. lunatic is more like it. No matter how many excuses you guys make for him, no matter how may times you try to justify his actions the fact that he looks at his friends like pawns and nearly killed his own friend renders him as a complete unfeeling shadow. He lacks compassion and empathy save for his three trollop lovers.

 

 

There is nothing redeeming about rand al thor.

 

Boy, Rand sure reminds me of Hawkwing.

[wavemistresstrammell]

Why is anyone even replying to this.... The argument has long since become redundant. 

 

Your right. He is too narrow-minded. Even with all the reasons we gave him.

 

Yes yes, I agree. I thought I was bad for bashing some characters but I see that I have been outdone and cast out of the Most Negative Person post... I was really good at it too : (

take heart Wavemistress, he has gained the tops for men, you can still keep the woman's title   ;)

 

I was talking about the guy who submitted this topic in the first place.

I know you were ^.^

[Durinax]

Quote from: sheikh chilli on Today at 01:50:45 PM

the dragon reborn almost killed his own friend. saviour? nah. lunatic is more like it. No matter how many excuses you guys make for him, no matter how may times you try to justify his actions the fact that he looks at his friends like pawns and nearly killed his own friend renders him as a complete unfeeling shadow. He lacks compassion and empathy save for his three trollop lovers.

 

 

There is nothing redeeming about rand al thor.

 

 

Boy, Rand sure reminds me of Hawkwing.

 

Didnt rand and perrin recollect that it was a clever ruse to make people think they had a falling out in order to get the nobles to fear rand more?

[Arath Faringal]

Yes.  It was more to cover Perrin's tracks, so nobody would be paying much attention to where he went.  Nobody would want to be seen near the man that the Dragon Reborn had banished.

 

Perrin just had the misfortune of starting their 'argument' over the captive Aes Sedai, a sore point with Rand anyway.  Rand got a bit more realistic than intended.

[Vambram]

Yes.  It was more to cover Perrin's tracks, so nobody would be paying much attention to where he went.  Nobody would want to be seen near the man that the Dragon Reborn had banished.

 

Perrin just had the misfortune of starting their 'argument' over the captive Aes Sedai, a sore point with Rand anyway.  Rand got a bit more realistic than intended.

 

That is true. However Rand did not almost kill Perrin. Although Perrin got a bit more realism from Rand then they had intended, Perrin was in no real danger of being killed, or even almost killed by Rand.

Oh, and sheik chilli's hatred of Rand al`Thor is really one of the most bizarre things that I have ever seen on dragonmount.com

Its understandable for a WOT fan to say that he does not like Rand any more, and that he does not like Rand's personality anymore. However, sheikh chilli's hatred of Rand al`Thor, to me, really does cross way over into the realms of Bizzarro land.

[Ashaman Kovan]

I wonder if he's some kind of sleeper agent...Sent to sow dissention and dislike...It is quite hard to believe that he's a fan of the books at all. Beyond the base elements of it. The One Power, the battles etc.

[wavemistresstrammell]

Yes.  It was more to cover Perrin's tracks, so nobody would be paying much attention to where he went.  Nobody would want to be seen near the man that the Dragon Reborn had banished.

 

Perrin just had the misfortune of starting their 'argument' over the captive Aes Sedai, a sore point with Rand anyway.  Rand got a bit more realistic than intended.

 

That is true. However Rand did not almost kill Perrin. Although Perrin got a bit more realism from Rand then they had intended, Perrin was in no real danger of being killed, or even almost killed by Rand.

Oh, and sheik chilli's hatred of Rand al`Thor is really one of the most bizarre things that I have ever seen on dragonmount.com

Its understandable for a WOT fan to say that he does not like Rand any more, and that he does not like Rand's personality anymore. However, sheikh chilli's hatred of Rand al`Thor, to me, really does cross way over into the realms of Bizzarro land.

Rand did say he almost killed him, I'll try to find the quote for you so I don't make a total ass of myself haha.

 

I wonder if he's some kind of sleeper agent...Sent to sow dissention and dislike...It is quite hard to believe that he's a fan of the books at all. Beyond the base elements of it. The One Power, the battles etc.

No silly that's me haha just kidding.

[wavemistresstrammell]

Ok, so here's the quote I found on page 666 paperback:

'A hundred times he hurled Perrin across the Grand Hall of the Sun, and a hundred times he was overwhelmed by blazing fear and rage. A hundred times he killed Perrin in his dreams and woke to his own screams. Why had the man chosen the Aes Sedai prisoners to use for their argument?'

 

He implies that he almost lost control during their 'fight'. Why else would he be having nightmares over it?

 

 

[Dmitri]

However, sheikh chilli's hatred of Rand al`Thor, to me, really does cross way over into the realms of Bizzarro land.

 

Don't you remember bubby and his Egwene passion? Starts here http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,9970.msg1025208.html#msg1025208  ;D

 

 

 

[wavemistresstrammell]

However, sheikh chilli's hatred of Rand al`Thor, to me, really does cross way over into the realms of Bizzarro land.

 

Don't you remember bubby and his Egwene passion? Starts here http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,9970.msg1025208.html#msg1025208  ;D

 

 

 

.......Wow, I'm not going to lie and say Egwene is my favorite character, but... wow.

[Mr Ares]

Anyone who uses his own friends and treats them like shit is no saviour. Anyone who even remotely comprehends hurting his own friends, the same friends he grew up with is a saviour of nothing.

Wrong. What makes him a savious is that he is destined to save the world. He is a saviour unless he fails to do that. How he treats his friends does not change that. It is not relevant. Being a saviour and a b*stard are not mutually exclusive. So you are wrong, factually wrong, leaving aside your opinions on Rand. He is the saviour whether or not you like, even if he murderd Perrin and Mat, it wouldn't change it, as long as he saves the world.

 

Why is anyone even replying to this.... The argument has long since become redundant. 

If your opponent will not listen to reason, batter him into submission.

 

You can dislike Rand if you want, but saying he's is not the saviour is factually wrong. Much like bubby's view on Egwene.

[killdawabbit]

 

Why is anyone even replying to this.... The argument has long since become redundant. 

If your opponent will not listen to reason, batter him into submission.

 

Normally I would agree with this tactic. However, some time ago, it became apparent that you wouldn't be battering your oponent, you would merely be battering yourself against a brick wall. Notice that the OP has merely been posting just often enough and with just the right amount of irrationality to keep the thread going and keep people arguing about his point. Sadly, there are people out there who have nothing better to do and that think this behavior somehow makes them important.

 

[Inveli]

 

Why is anyone even replying to this.... The argument has long since become redundant. 

If your opponent will not listen to reason, batter him into submission.

 

Normally I would agree with this tactic. However, some time ago, it became apparent that you wouldn't be battering your oponent, you would merely be battering yourself against a brick wall. Notice that the OP has merely been posting just often enough and with just the right amount of irrationality to keep the thread going and keep people arguing about his point. Sadly, there are people out there who have nothing better to do and that think this behavior somehow makes them important.

 

 

The guy is too stubborn and narrow-minded to at least say "OK, I hate Rand. He is a douche. But I might as well deal with it." Then again, I'm not going to be insulting him and berating him. Might as well not go there. But it's exasperating to say the least. It takes courage and respect to look at the other person's point of view. When we don't look at the other side of things, then you are blinding yourself. As a matter of fact, I would go as far as to say that the reason why this guy doesn't want to listen to some reason is because he doesn't want to do it. And I can understand that. He made up his mind. And no matter how much we tell him otherwise, he doesn't want to listen so therefore, he'll stick with his opinion of the character and act like no one is giving a particularly good reason to say otherwise because he doesn't want to look at it from a different view.

[sheikh chilli]

I wonder if he's some kind of sleeper agent...Sent to sow dissention and dislike...It is quite hard to believe that he's a fan of the books at all. Beyond the base elements of it. The One Power, the battles etc.

 

;D dissension and dislike? wow i knew i liked padan fain's character but i did'nt realise i was starting to take on his personality traits too  :o 8)

 

i started reading the wheel of time since i was 18 years old. i am fan of the books. I have converted alot of my friends many of them who don't even read novels to begin with to WOT fans. However i am not a fan of rand al thor. Never was beyond book 5 and looks like never will either. I think the idea of a  total unfeeling pitiless clown as the saviour of the world is probaby the 'sickest', biggest most outrageous idea ever seen in a book. I have read so many books where the central character all died in battle or sacrifices and you can't help feeling sad over it.

 

Fat chance of that ever happening over rand al thor. 

[Ashaman Kovan]

I wonder if he's some kind of sleeper agent...Sent to sow dissention and dislike...It is quite hard to believe that he's a fan of the books at all. Beyond the base elements of it. The One Power, the battles etc.

 

;D dissension and dislike? wow i knew i liked padan fain's character but i did'nt realise i was starting to take on his personality traits too  :o 8)

 

i started reading the wheel of time since i was 18 years old. i am fan of the books. I have converted alot of my friends many of them who don't even read novels to begin with to WOT fans. However i am not a fan of rand al thor. Never was beyond book 5 and looks like never will either. I think the idea of a  total unfeeling pitiless clown as the saviour of the world is probaby the 'sickest', biggest most outrageous idea ever seen in a book. I have read so many books where the central character all died in battle or sacrifices and you can't help feeling sad over it.

 

Fat chance of that ever happening over rand al thor. 

 

So...Let me get this straight...You're saying that you only like Savior of Mandkind types of heroes, when they die? And then you, consequently feel sad about it? Because that sounds like what you're saying.

[Mr Ares]

However, some time ago, it became apparent that you wouldn't be battering your oponent, you would merely be battering yourself against a brick wall.

The brick wall will surrender before I do.

 

I think the idea of a  total unfeeling pitiless clown as the saviour of the world is probaby the 'sickest', biggest most outrageous idea ever seen in a book.

It's also not one used in Wheel of Time.

[killdawabbit]

However, some time ago, it became apparent that you wouldn't be battering your oponent, you would merely be battering yourself against a brick wall.

The brick wall will surrender before I do.

 

I'm not saying the OP is being obstinate, I'm saying he is doing it on purpose.

 

This portion of my post was far more important to my point than the brick wall metaphor:

Notice that the OP has merely been posting just often enough and with just the right amount of irrationality to keep the thread going and keep people arguing about his point.

[funsize]

I think the idea of a  total unfeeling pitiless clown as the saviour of the world is probaby the 'sickest', biggest most outrageous idea ever seen in a book.

 

So, did you ignore all the POV's where Rand says how much he hates doing what he has to do, or did you just not understand them?

[Mr Ares]

I'm not saying the OP is being obstinate, I'm saying he is doing it on purpose.

I know what you're saying. I disagree, but regardless, he will give up. After several more pages of people ridiculing his ideas.

[killdawabbit]

I'm not saying the OP is being obstinate, I'm saying he is doing it on purpose.

I know what you're saying. I disagree, but regardless, he will give up. After several more pages of people ridiculing his ideas.

 

More like when he gets bored with it. The whole point is to get people in a lather then laugh about it as if you have achieved something great.

 

 

[Inveli]

I wonder if he's some kind of sleeper agent...Sent to sow dissention and dislike...It is quite hard to believe that he's a fan of the books at all. Beyond the base elements of it. The One Power, the battles etc.

 

;D dissension and dislike? wow i knew i liked padan fain's character but i did'nt realise i was starting to take on his personality traits too  :o 8)

 

i started reading the wheel of time since i was 18 years old. i am fan of the books. I have converted alot of my friends many of them who don't even read novels to begin with to WOT fans. However i am not a fan of rand al thor. Never was beyond book 5 and looks like never will either. I think the idea of a  total unfeeling pitiless clown as the saviour of the world is probaby the 'sickest', biggest most outrageous idea ever seen in a book. I have read so many books where the central character all died in battle or sacrifices and you can't help feeling sad over it.

 

Fat chance of that ever happening over rand al thor. 

 

This seems to suggest otherwise.

 

After Tarmon Gai'don

      Ok, this is my first theory.

 

I think that Rand will win the Last Battle and survive, though he will be badly injured. He will get better/be healed, then go as a beggar to Tar Valon where he will be brought to the Tower and gentled by Egwene. He will probably die soon after.

 

First, Rand will win the Last Battle and survive.

 

There are 6 references to Rand’s blood in the Karaethon Cycle.

 

“Like the unfettered dawn shall he blind us, and burn us, yet shall the Dragon Reborn confront the Shadow at the Last Battle, and his blood shall give us the Light.â€

 

"Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

 

Once for mourning, once for birth.

 

Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.

 

In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

 

"The blood of the Dragon Reborn on the rocks of Shayol Ghul will free mankind from the Shadow."

 

"His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, washing away the Shadow, sacrifice for man's salvation."

 

-Min’s viewing, TEotW chapter 15

 

“Black rock wet with bloodâ€

 

There are seven references to Rand’s death.

 

-Twice in the Dark Prophecy, TGH chapter 7,

 

“Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still.â€

 

“Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to life eternal.â€

 

-Nicola’s Foretelling, LoC, chapter 14,

 

“Three on the boat and he who is dead yet lives.â€

 

-In The Karaethon Cycle, TGH chapter 26

 

“Twice and twice shall he be marked,

 

twice to live and twice to die.â€

 

-Min’s viewing, TEotW chapter 15

 

“Three women standing over a funeral bier with you on itâ€

 

One of the answers to Rand’s questions to the Aelfinn,

 

“If you would live, you must die."

 

-Egwene's dream

 

"A man lay dying in a narrow bed, and it was important that he not die, yet outside a funeral pyre was being built, and voices raised songs of joy and sadness."

 

CoS, Chapter 10, Unseen Eyes, Page 203

 

Why would people be singing for joy at a funeral, unless it was the Dragon Reborn’s funeral?

 

So, yes, Rand will die, but not necessarily at Tarmon Gai’don.

 

Cadsuane thinks that Rand might survive Tarmon Gai’don.

 

"He is turning into a stone, Verin, and if he doesn't relearn that he is human, winning the Last Battle may not be much better then losing.†WH, chapter 25

 

“He must learn that even the Dragon Reborn is flesh. If he goes to Tarmon Gai’don as he is, even his victory may be as dark as his defeat†Cadsuane to Sorilea, PoD, chapter

 

How could winning Tarmon Gai’don be nearly as dark as losing unless the Dragon Reborn was alive to make it so?

 

 

 

Second, he will go to Tar Valon as a begger and then go, or be brought against his will, which I think is more likely, to the Tower.

 

-Perrin’s dream.

 

“ Perrin thought it was Rand. He wore rags and a rough cloak, and a bandage covered his eyes.â€

 

-Egwene’s dream TSR,Ch11

 

“Rand in chains, and it was he who was screaming.â€

 

-Moridin’s sha’rah game

 

“The Fisher was always worked as a man, a bandage blinding his eyes and one hand pressed to his side, a few drops of blood dripping through his fingers. The reasons, like the source of the name, were lost in the mist of time. That troubled him sometimes, enraged him, what knowledge might be lost in the turnings of the Wheel, knowledge he needed, knowledge he had a right to. A right!

 

Slowly he set the Fisher back on the board. Slowly his fingers uncurled from around the cour'souvra. There was no need for destruction. Yet. Icy calm replaced rage in the blink of an eye. Blood and wine dripped from his gashed hand, unnoticed. Perhaps the Fisher did come from some remnant of a memory of Rand al'Thor, the shadow of a shadow. It did not matter. He realized he was laughing, and made no effort to stop. On the board, the Fisher stood waiting, but in the greater game, al'Thor moved already to his wishes. And soon, now. . . .It was very hard to lose a game when you played both sides of the board. Moridin laughed so hard that tears rolled down his face, but he was not aware of them.â€

 

PoD, Prologue.

 

Rand has something wrong with his eyes, and a wound in his side that’s always breaking open, so it’s safe to assume that Rand is the Fisher.

 

At the Tower, Egwene will be the Amyrlin and she will gentle him.

 

During Rand’s trip by Portal Stone, in one of his lives,

 

“Egwene, stern-faced in the stole of the Amyrlin Seat, lead the Aes Sedai who gentled him.†TGH, chapter 37

 

“A dozen Aes Sedai surrounded three men, two of them burly guards with the Flame of Tar Valon on their chests, tugging the chains in which the third stumbled as if dazed. Egwene jerked forward in her chair. The chained man was Rand. Eyes half-closed, head sagging, he seemed to be nearly asleep, moving only as the chains directed.

 

“This man,†Elaida proclaimed, “has named himself the Dragon Reborn. This man has channeled the One Power. There is only one penalty for this, known and recognized in every nation, but pronounced only here in Tar Valon, in the Hall of the Tower. I call upon the Amyrlin Seat to pronounce the sentence of gentling on this man.†TDR, during the third arch of Egwene’s test for the Accepted. Now, we know that Ter’angreal is somehow related to the Ter’angreal that allows the wearer to enter Tel’aran’rhiod. I think that it is quite possible that Egwene’s test for the Accepted, or at least the third part of it was somehow connected to reality instead of what it was for every other Novice who was tested. During the third Arch, she saw herself as the Amyrlin, with Beldiene as her Keeper. Beldiene is a young Dragonsworn Green. She saw Elaida as her main enemy in the Hall of the Tower, and she remembered something called “The Great Purge†where all the Black Ajah in the Tower were revealed, which is something that Seaine, Pevera Doesine, Saerin and Yukiri are working on right now.

 

Rand will most likely be gentled as a punishment for killing like, five, Aes Sedai, stilling three, and making the rest swear fealty to him, and who knows what else.

 

So, I think that at Tarmon Gai’don Rand will reseal the Bore with a circle of 72 Aes Sedai and Ash’aman, he will either be badly injured, [probably by the wound in his side breaking open] or else he will actually die and come back to life. Either way he will spill his blood all over Shayol Ghul and the Pit of Doom. He will be rescued by Elayne, Avaindha & Min, go to Tar Valon, and then be brought to the Tower and gentled by Egwene.

[Ashaman Kovan]

 

I'm not saying the OP is being obstinate, I'm saying he is doing it on purpose

 

But...He is being obstinate..You are aware of the definition of the word I assume?

It is possible to be obstinate on purpose.

[killdawabbit]

 

But...He is being obstinate..You are aware of the definition of the word I assume?

It is possible to be obstinate on purpose.

 

I suppose it's possible he is actually being obstinate, however, whether he actually believes what he is saying is questionable.

 

[Ashaman Kovan]

 

But...He is being obstinate..You are aware of the definition of the word I assume?

It is possible to be obstinate on purpose.

 

I suppose it's possible he is actually being obstinate, however, whether he actually believes what he is saying is questionable.

 

 

I'm not sure that his "Beliefs" are the thing that is in question. So much as his ability to reason and his common sense.