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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
42Bonzo88

Characters we're just not sure about

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Yeah, Weiramon is definately a darkfriend. He even comments on how he cannot push the 'stupid' thing too far.

 

Absorbed in one another, Weiramon and Gedwyn did not hear him riding up on them. Gedwyn was idly playing with his reins, his features cold with contempt. The Tairen was red-faced. "I don't care who you are," he was saying to the black-coated man in a low, hard voice, spittle flying, "I won't take more risk without a command direct from the lips of..." Abruptly the pair became aware of Bertome, and Weiramon's mouth snapped shut. He glared as if he wanted to kill Bertome. The Asha'man's ever-present smile melted away. The wind gusted, cold and sharp as clouds drifted across the sun, but no colder than Gedwyn's sudden stare. With a small shock Bertome realized the man also wanted to strike him dead on the spot.

 

 

Gedwyn's icily murderous gaze did not change, but Weiramon's face underwent a remarkable transformation. The red faded slowly as he produced a smile in an instant, an oily smile with only a trace of mocking condescension. "I've been thinking about you, Bertome," he said heartily. "A pity al'Thor strangled your cousin. With his own hands, I hear. Frankly, I was surprised you came when he called. I've seen him watching you. I fear he plans something ore . . . interesting . . . for you than thrashing your heels on the floor while his fingers tighten on your throat."

 

This shows both that Weiramon is directly willing to take orders from one of Gedwyn's superiors--but not Rand, the only superior they share--and that he is capable of great acting, changing his manner utterly.

 

After that one need look at Weiramon's actions to see that his playing the fool has at all times served to slow Rand. He is a darkfriend. A particularily brilliant one.

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It's a perfect cover. Weiramon is SO stupid, supposedly, that he can get away with almost any sabotaging of Rand's plans - Rand will just put it down to his stupidity and incompetence.

 

Yeah I'm just thinking that Rand may remove the incompetent one, he is getting pretty ruthless.

 

Lurkers: You know I just never really saw him manipulating the Asha'man like that, this series really is incredibly subtle. I just thought he was being out for himself. Good thing Rand doesn't trust him THAT much.

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Thats part of the brilliance of what he's done--Rand doesn't trust him as such, but he also doesn't distrust him. He thinks he's an idiot and that gives him the space to openly disobey Rand--i mean think of what he did in KoD--returning to Tear against Rand's express orders to attack the Rebels, thus making the situation much worse, and risking civil war.

 

Yet Rand does nothing, because Weiramon's actions seem to be that of an over-eager idiot, not of someone intentionally trying to do harm.

 

Weiramon is one of the most brilliant characters RJ put in WoT, in my opinion.

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    Again thanks for all of the people who responded. I appreciate the names and also why you think that way. Now, that we have made our lists and yes I agree that there are alot of names that are either Black (dark) or White (light) you do have to admit with Robert Jordan there is alot of gray. So, on the ones that seem to be on this side or the other, obviously the ones tending to be dark would be controlled by The Dark One. Do you think the ones (Verin for example) tending to be light but your still wondering, could it be the Creator putting them in or not?

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Thats part of the brilliance of what he's done--Rand doesn't trust him as such, but he also doesn't distrust him. He thinks he's an idiot and that gives him the space to openly disobey Rand--i mean think of what he did in KoD--returning to Tear against Rand's express orders to attack the Rebels, thus making the situation much worse, and risking civil war.

 

Yet Rand does nothing, because Weiramon's actions seem to be that of an over-eager idiot, not of someone intentionally trying to do harm.

 

Weiramon is one of the most brilliant characters RJ put in WoT, in my opinion.

 

I remain unconvinced that Weiramon is a Darkfriend. A fool, definitely, but not a Darkfriend. One key point is Weiramon's eagerness to "lead the charge against Illian" when he knew Sammael was on the other side and was destroying men with saidin. A clear example of his foolishness and also him being willing to fight the Shadow.

 

     Again thanks for all of the people who responded. I appreciate the names and also why you think that way. Now, that we have made our lists and yes I agree that there are alot of names that are either Black (dark) or White (light) you do have to admit with Robert Jordan there is alot of gray. So, on the ones that seem to be on this side or the other, obviously the ones tending to be dark would be controlled by The Dark One. Do you think the ones (Verin for example) tending to be light but your still wondering, could it be the Creator putting them in or not?

 

I've always thought that the Creator in the Wheel of Time is like God in Deism. He created the world but then left it to mens' devices.

 

I never doubted that Verin "walked in the Light" but I usually question her motives. She is Aes Sedai after all.

 

One character I am suspicious of is Sheriam.

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Now it suddenly makes so much more sense why he's so obssessed over using Calvary, they can retreat the fastest. What a little snake.

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I found a reference to a Tearian High lord wearing silver worked boots at the Darkfriend Social in tGH. Then Weiramon's sigil is a Silver Crescent with stars seems likly to indicate he is a DF.

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i agree with  the above poster  who mentioned  sheriam  i  can  see her being a  closet  darkfriend.

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By offering to squander Rand's resources, was he really offering to fight against the Shadow?  Especially since, as we've seen elsewhere (admirably pointed out in this thread) his foolishness is probably just as act?  If his foolishness is an act, then he offered to knowingly squander Rand's resources, by which I mean he was willing to send men who actually are loyal to Rand to their death.

 

Well, that would make more sense if he didn't lead the attack personally. He was on the frontlines when Sammael was attacking. I think he really is just an idiotic fool but he could be using that idiocy as a cover. The evidence supporting him to be a Darkffriend isn't very strong.

 

Now it suddenly makes so much more sense why he's so obssessed over using Calvary, they can retreat the fastest. What a little snake.

 

All nobles love cavalry. The feel that it is more glamorous than the lowly foot. That doesn't equate all of the nobility as being Darkfriends though.

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I saw Noal mentioned, and then someone said that since they believe he is Jain Farstrider, he is not a Darkfriend. I also believe that he's Jain Farstrider, and even though he may not be a Darkfriend, Ishamael (I know--a lying liar who lies)indicated that he had tampered with Farstrider, and Noal's memory does seem to have...speed bumps. I would not be surprised if he didn't suddenly turn on Mat or Rand or whoever, ala the Manchurian Candidate, even if he isn't a Darkfriend in his heart.  ;)

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To all those people who say Bashere can't be a darkfriend because he's fought for Rand and has a seal and stuff; I always think of Ingtar.  Ingtar did all that and a DF, but it was not his task to directly kill the Dragon Reborn.

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Oh so Noal is a sleeper agent then, I can see the Forsaken doing something like that.

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I would add Galad and Gawyn to the list.  I don't think either will go darkfriend, but I'm not sure they will be pro-Rand either.  As the story has progressed I have become more confident that Galad will join Rand.  At first I thought he was being set up as an expample of how a person who is too rigid in their since of right and wrong can be every bit as bad as a DF.  However, I bleive in KOD he did say that he would be willing to joing the Dragonsworn.  Gawyn, on the other hand, I am not so sure about.  He already hates Rand, and I'm not sure that finding out that Morgase is alive would be enough to turn him around.  I think he would still blame Rand for diposing her and doing harm to Andor.  Min did have a fluctuationg vision of Gawyn which alternated between him kneeling before Egwene or breaking her neck.  This indicates that his future and his loyalties are in question.  At first I thought this vision refered to him having to chose between loyalty to Elaida or loyalty to Egwene, but he seems to have given up his loyalty to Elaida too readily for this to be the case. I think instead that this vision refers more to him helping or hurting Egwene's cause.  Whatever the case, I get the impression that his and Egwene's romance will be more of a tragic story than a happily ever after.

 

 

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I'm also not sure about Dylin.  She just seems too good to be true, and that make me suspect that she is up to something.  Perhaps she is a particularly clever DF who realizes that instead of directly taking control of Andor she can control in by manipulation Elayne, and by appearing to help Elayne she can completely gain the trust of The Light.  Or something like that.  Whatever the case, I just don't trust her.

 

Oh, and didn't Verin once say something to the effect of keeping Rand alive until the proper time for him to die?  Whatever her motive is, this does seem to give her an antagonistic relationship with Rand.  I supose it could just be a reference to The K-Cycle's prediction that his blood will be spilled at SG but I dunno, I tend to belive it is something more complicated than that.  This is Verin afterall, surely nothing related to her could be that simple.

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I saw Noal mentioned, and then someone said that since they believe he is Jain Farstrider, he is not a Darkfriend. I also believe that he's Jain Farstrider, and even though he may not be a Darkfriend, Ishamael (I know--a lying liar who lies)indicated that he had tampered with Farstrider, and Noal's memory does seem to have...speed bumps. I would not be surprised if he didn't suddenly turn on Mat or Rand or whoever, ala the Manchurian Candidate, even if he isn't a Darkfriend in his heart.  ;)

 

Just let me get one thing straight before I open my mouth on Noal.

 

Is he, or is he not, the old man who told Mat that it was Jaichinm Carridins palace?

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I *think* that the old man in question is the known DF, Old Cully, the beggar DF who seems to actually sit quite high in DF circles.  :-\

 

Oh, and good point about Ingtar, DemandredFO. Moggy also comes to mind, having been an adviser to LTT before being exposed as an agent of the Shadow.

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And I've been wondering if we will see any darkfriend seafolk, as far as I know not a single one has been introduced as evil, just arrogantly annoying so far.

 

The man who calls himself Bors saw at least one Seafolk person at the DF social in tGH prologue.

 

 

whoops, you're right, forgot about that one.

 

Someone mentioned Sheriam, hasn't it been revealed that she is a DF??  I'll try and find out where it was mentioned.

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Actually as of the KoD Prologue Galad IS Pro-Rand, so much so he got the rabid Byar and Dain to go along with him and support him too boot. How and Why Galad is so "Let's go help Rand!" I'm still not sure of, I mean yeah now he knows that Rand didn't kill Morgase but still is that really enough?

 

As for Gawyn he's crazy and I wouldn't mind seeing him die, it would be nice if not ALL the couples got a happy ending.

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Yeah, too many happy endings would be a bit to saccarine sweet.  I don't think it will happen though.  I predict:

 

Happy endings:

 

Lan/Nyneave (Lan is over due for some happiness)

 

Perrin/Faile (despite fan opinion I really do think this is RJ's power couple)

 

Mat/Tuon (Outrigger novels, duh)

 

Galad/Berelain (will be if they get together b/c I don't see either dying, though I suspect Galad may reject her.)

 

Gaul/Chiad (relatively happy anyway. He gets Chiad but has to take Bain too)

 

Doman/Egenin (too damned cute not too).

 

 

Tragic Endings;

 

Gawyn/Egwene (Gawyn just ain't gonna get is sh!t together)

 

Thom/Moiraine (I just think one or both will die)

 

Rand/Min/Elayne/Avi (With Rand's destiny no way this can end well)

 

Talanvor/Morgase (just got a gut feeling that Tal won't survive TG)

 

Garath/Suin (Will finally get together officially and probably get married, but I think Garath will die in TG

 

Juilin/I forget her name (Frankly, he can do better)

 

I predict alot of tragedy I know, but I'm really hoping that the ending will be a victory for the light, but very dark none the less.

 

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Actually as of the KoD Prologue Galad IS Pro-Rand, so much so he got the rabid Byar and Dain to go along with him and support him too boot. How and Why Galad is so "Let's go help Rand!" I'm still not sure of, I mean yeah now he knows that Rand didn't kill Morgase but still is that really enough?

 

As for Gawyn he's crazy and I wouldn't mind seeing him die, it would be nice if not ALL the couples got a happy ending.

 

i  read  his statement  to  mean more of lets go help the  aes sedai the  quote wsa something  aometimes you have to  ally with the serpent to  kill the raven iirc.  Galad is  probably one of the most open characters in  the  book  very  black and white  and he stated  in foh (i  think) that  he  would count it a  small price to  pay  to  die to  spare elyane  the  smallest  hurt so i  think Galad is  basically wanting to help elayne  via  stopping the  culture war against the  aes sedai.

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No, it was Noal.  Old Cully is missing an eye.

 

Thanks for confirming.

 

Look at Crown of Swords, page 300. In the Silver Circuit, Mat sees Mili Skane aka Lady Shiane, who is sat with Noal, Sammael and Graendal-or people who fit their description, including Sammaels clothing. Mat knows Mili Skane is a Darkfriend-she admitted it when she tried to kill him in Eye of the World-and after Mat follows her to the Chelsaine Palace where Carridin/Bors is based, Noal turns up and tells Mat that Carridin is staying there.

 

Now, in the following chapter we see Mat and Noal through Carridins PoV, and he notes that he recognises Mat. The fact that he doesnt recognise Noal means nothing, as the Darkfriends dont always know who each other are.

 

So, I draw from this that Noal is a Darkfriend. If he isnt, then why would be hanging round with confirmed Darkfriends AND Forsaken? Unless Ishamael AND Sammael or Graendal are using him against his will, which I find to be abiot of a stretch, then this whole scene to me screams of unnatural coincedence, unless of course, Noal is a Darkfriend.

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Hmm. Rearding Noal, Im not so sure what to believe now as on page 350 Crown of Swords, we get the anonymous PoV that most people believe to be Noal, where he has a headache and cant remember certain things, like signs of Compulsion, so maybe he IS being used by more than one Forsaken.

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