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Who knows the song?

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i think that Loial will be the one to sing the song of growing and a Tinker (Raen) will overhear it ...

 

this of course is based on both Loial being one of the few Ogier who still has the talent, and then Rands experiences in the glass columns of rhuidian

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Ok, the first issue with this is the question of 'what is the Song?'

 

The Song, as the Tinkers define it, is a song that will bring back all the wonders of the Age of Legends. However that is not what their ancestors set out to find. Here is the original quote from the beginning of the group that later became the Tuatha'an.

 

Sulwin stepped back, then held his ground with his companions. “No, Adan. We are supposed to find a place of safety, and some of us mean to do that. My greatfather used to tell me stories he heard as a boy, stories of when we lived in safety and people came to hear us sing. We mean to find a place where we can be safe, and sing again.”

 

“Sing?” Adan scoffed. “I have heard those old stories, too, that Aiel singing was a wondrous thing, but you know those old songs no more than I do. The songs are gone, and the old days are gone. We will not give up our duty to the Aes Sedai to chase after what is lost forever.”

 

“Some of us will, Adan.” The others behind Sulwin nodded. “We mean to find that safe place. And the songs, too. We will!”

 

In this it is made clear that the Song that what the Tinkers seek is not a magical song, but rather an expression of the desire of their Aiel forebearers to find a safe place and regain the culture they lost. Much as Maj said, it is a symbol.

 

However it cannot be denied that the Aiel did do some pretty magical stuff with their singing. And whilst we know that the Tuatha'an belief that finding the song will bring back the Age of Legends is the result of a myth, we also know that there can be truth in myths. The Song--or rather, the Singing is a powerful thing, and something that RJ has layered into the story deeply between the Aiel not singing and the Tuatha'an's desire to regain that.

 

And lets not forget the current food crisis in the Westlands--people are going to be dying in the thousands very soon due to the taint the Dark One has caused in food--they already are in fact. It may well be that the 'Song', or rather the singing will play its part in this.

 

However, that distinction i made just then between the Song and the Singing is an important one--the Singing is not using magical words to cause effect, it is the vocal expression of a talent. The words do not matter--indeed they dont even seem to be words in the Song, it is the power behind them which causes the effect.

 

The Tinkers are unlikely to have this ability--they have bred too much with other races for it to remain--but recall that many Aiel have sought the Tinkers as a result of the bleakness--it may be that some amongst them still have the ability. Recall too that the Ogier tried to teach the Tinkers Treesinging, but could not... maybe there are now those amongst them who can learn.

 

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I think the song is a combination of Aiel and Ogier (kind of two part harmony). The Tinkers couldn't learn from the Ogier because that was not their part.

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Didn't the Nym (?) / Green Men take the songs / harmonising of the Aiel and the Ogier and weave that into something that made the plants grow strong and fast?

 

Would it therefore even help if they rediscovered the Song, since there are no more Green Men to do the weaving?

 

That being said, the Ogier Treesinging could be boosted by the Aiel Song, to affect more than one plant / tree at a time. A new variation of the old method, if you will, just as Channelers of this Age have developed weaves (like the Bonding one, or Unravelling a Weave) which could not be done in the Age of Legends.

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I can't remember the specific thread, but I brought up the Song and it's potential role in the end and/or TG.  Consistent with this thread, I was tactfully hammered by Mr. Ares & the forum.  But reading Brandon Sanderson's comments that we're in for some very big surprises, and everything's been foreshadowed, I'm still not convinced I'm wrong.  There are too many references to Song or "the song", and who says is has to be the Seed Song.  Where is it written that the srenghth / magic of the song doesn't pre date the AOL's. 

 

The game of snakes & foxes makes reference to Iron, Music, Light.

 

Matt's visits to the A & E include questions about Iron, Music, Light

 

The Aelfin & Elfin (sp) pre date the AOL's, which must prove that the strength of music must pre date the AOL's and the seed song

 

The AOL Aiel tried Song to stop the mad Aies Sedai, and I'm quite certain it wasn't the seed song or RJ would likely have mentioned it.

 

Not saying a song will result in THE END, but it may (Must) play some kind of role. 

 

Not hammering you Matrim DeLaneous, but:

 

I agree that the song is one of the foreshadowings that has not showed up in anyway in the main stream of the story. I agree that RJ do like to do long foreshadowings and that stuff we read on the first book will come again on the last. But i fear that the song may be one of the loose ends that BS stated RJ planned to leave after the end of the series.

 

So, i do hope that the song, or Singing in a wider interpretation, will be part of the last books, but there are real chances that it may not. So, don't be sure ^^ nothing is Sure!!!

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I think that they will rediscover the lost songs. The Aiel/ tinkers and ogier will sing together again. But it'll just be an epilogue type thing. Like after TG and everything, they sing to regrow the blight or something like that. That sounds more likely to me...

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The Aiel who through done their weapons to the bleakness didn't join the Tinkers, the Way of the Leaf is not why they are Lost.  They went to towns and cities and became laborers and servants like the Aiel of old were.

 

In tGH when Rand, Loial, and Hurin were in the portal stone world Rand felt a resonance inside him when Loial sang that quarter staff from the tree.

 

It could be the Nym only focused the song.  So maybe only the Aiel and Ogier are needed (but I do think the Tinkers could join, depending on who much "Aiel" they have in them...Not every Aiel was a singer I believe).

 

And I wonder why the Greenman seemed so intent on sprouting that acorn.  Maybe that is how the Nym are reborn.

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Isn't there some viewing of Perrin with flowers or somesuch? Perhaps he gets involved also (he always felt a pull to the way of the leaf).

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Could you even imagine the tinkers reaction to actually hearing the song?

That would be a very great scene i think.

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Really? I think they'd be horrified--they have a lot of expectations for the Song, and plantsinging, as nice as it is, would not fulfil them.

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Could you even imagine the tinkers reaction to actually hearing the song?
"That was it?"

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Loial sang to the Green Man's tree to give it a fighting chance against the Blight...I expect this to be significant in AMoL...the Nym could be revived because Loial did what he did...IMO.

 

I still enjoy thinking about the possibility of Aiel and Tinker pairs entering the glass columns together...yes, hand-in-hand...then emerging as "New Jenn" who remember the song.  The Aiel have already entered Rhuidian.  Now, we just need the Tinkers to drop in for tea.

 

As for the power of the song, apparently the Aiel in the Age of Legends felt that they could hold off an army with it...the image is quite clear in my mind of the city that was destroyed with the line of thousands of Aiel singing to protect it.  Maybe the song didn't have great power, but they must have thought that it did.

 

I also hope that Loial sings to the burnt remains of the Tree of Life in Rhuidian to restore it. 

 

I know...broken record.  :)

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I think it's "The Wind that Shakes the Willow"  that's the song for seed singing.  I agree with the other sentiments about there will be singing needed to feed everybody given all of the Dark Ones effects on food from the spoiling and bad weather.  Maybe somehow this is another amazing feat of Rand?  Or the work of the gleeman?

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I think it's "The Wind that Shakes the Willow"  that's the song for seed singing.  I agree with the other sentiments about there will be singing needed to feed everybody given all of the Dark Ones effects on food from the spoiling and bad weather.  Maybe somehow this is another amazing feat of Rand?  Or the work of the gleeman?

I think it's "The Rains of Castermere." Oh wait, wrong novel...

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who ever said the seed singing was all there was ? there could be a whole slew of diferent songs for all occasions. where the tinkers will learn them who knows.

that being said the song is most definitly WASH THE SPEARS

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If it's lost then it's lost. How can someone just happen to remember something that has been forgotten for so many years and there probably isn't written anywhere. Even if it was written in like the Thirteenth library or whatever in the White Tower it would never be discovered because those Brown sisters go apesh!t for everything.

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who ever said the seed singing was all there was ? there could be a whole slew of diferent songs for all occasions. where the tinkers will learn them who knows.

that being said the song is most definitly WASH THE SPEARS

No, it will be a Tinker in the Kitchen

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The talent of singing is not necessarily limited to the Aiel/Tinkers. I think there might be a bit of foreshadowing/hinting going on with the Aiel, in that they don't normally sing after a certain age. The songs though are hinted at not being a specific song, my understanding was that there were many and they could be improvised and changed at least to some degree, but the talent of singing and changing the world, will be rediscovered.

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Isn't the Green Man a Nym or something?
Shh it's a secret 
Who would win in a fight?

The Green Man or Tree Beard? lol

Mat Cauthon, PoR. 

 

The song is Mr Roboto by Styx, or maybe that's if DO wins...Or maybe they don't actually remember songs that have been dead and gone for 3000 yrs, but given their new age, with peace and free time they learn how to do it again from scratch. That would be my vote.

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Aiel would be the likely ones , the clan chiefs that have seen thru thier ancestors past lives( don't think the seed song will be it though seeing as the Ogier know how already )

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