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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Who WERE/ARE/WILL these guys be?


Vassili
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Since there is a lot of evidence our current age is the 1st age of WoT, and since people are reborn again and again, I was wondering who the major players in the series may have been today, and/or the AoL.

 

I'm making an assumption that most people are reborn each age, though I'm not sure if thats true. If RJ said anything on the matter, tell us please, it will help the thread.

 

When thinking of "major players" in our age a few names come to mind. (Hitler, Patton, Arthur, Alexander, Jesus)

 

When thinking who could be who reincrnated, I considered accomplishments, deeds, and most importantly personality. For example, Hitler and Moridin are widely considered the most evil men of their ages. But Moridin is actually very intelligent, while Hitler was not ;) I'm guessing they are not the same person, but that is infitely debateable.

 

There is only one character in WoT I think I can identify in this age. Aginor=Joseph Mengel

 

Both were scientists.

Both joined evil causes inorder to conduct unethical experiments.

Both were evil.

Both were important members of their respective orders.

Both tortured human beings.

Both sought to create "mutants".

 

They are so similar, leaving fiction aside, I think RJ may have based Aginor on JM.

 

 

Thread Question: Who do you think major players, like the Forsaken, were in our age?

 

 

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Guest The Thin Inn Keeper

When thinking of "major players" in our age a few names come to mind. (Hitler, Patton, Arthur, Alexander, Jesus)

Patton and Arthur...?

But Moridin is actually very intelligent, while Hitler was not ;) I'm guessing they are not the same person, but that is infitely debateable.

Ignoring the character assassination of Moridin you're undertaking here ... apologies, but Hitler was clearly a very intelligent man. He was a clearly an orator of high standing.

 

It might be unpleasant to call Hitler intelligent, but he clearly was.

Both sought to create "mutants".

Hmmm... surely, they were merely the by products of his "work". They weren't what he was aiming to "produce".

Thread Question: Who do you think major players, like the Forsaken, were in our age?

I think, in order to ellict any response, you need to re-phrase the question:

 

Who was RJ inspired by when he created his characters?

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Would not Hitler = Asmodean?

 

Asmo failed as a musician, Hitler failed as an artist.

Both had their strength as politicians, while they sucked as soldiers/military leaders.

;D

 

But more seriously, I do not think that RJ based any of the forsaken on a single bad character in our world. Rather he took the traits he needed from a number of evil leaders in our world, and distributed them as needed.

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RJ probably borrowed aspects of people in our age to create characters in WoT. I'm not debating this real life aspect of his work. What I'm asking is, if the 1st age is meant to be our age, and if people are reborn each age, who might people like Aginor be in our age? I'm not asking who they "really" are, but who they are in the 1st age of the WoT universe.

 

When thinking of "major players" in our age a few names come to mind. (Hitler, Patton, Arthur, Alexander, Jesus)

Patton and Arthur...?

 

I'm not saying Gen. Patton or Alexander the Great are in any way connected, I was just listing off random major players in our age. Major players of our age are the most likely candidates to be the souls of Rand, or Ishy, etc..

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When thinking of "major players" in our age a few names come to mind. (Hitler, Patton, Arthur, Alexander, Jesus)
Who is Arthur? And is Patton really a "major player"? Why not Stalin. Or Zhukov. Or Churchill, or Turing, or Eisenhower, or Roosevelt? Surely any of these men has at the very least an equal claim, in most cases a greater one, surely, to being "major players" of that era? I know your list isn't exclusive, but I don't think Patton belongs on it.

 

Both had their strength as politicians, while they sucked as soldiers/military leaders.

;D

Hitler did win the Iron Cross, so he wasn't completely hopeless.
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Both had their strength as politicians, while they sucked as soldiers/military leaders.

;D

Hitler did win the Iron Cross, so he wasn't completely hopeless.

 

From my understanding, decorations are not that hard to get, especially not during a war.

And I would say that there is quite a gap between Not completely hopeless and actually skilled ;D

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I would't call Hitler intelligent.

 

A sign of true intlligence is the ability to make decisions dispassionatly.  Hitler's decision to fight a two front war was based on his hatred for what he considered "subhuman" races to the east.  Those were his opinions, not mine, so please no one take offense.

 

If he'd finished off England before breaking his treaty with Russia, as a truly intellligent tactician would have done... you do the math.

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From my understanding, decorations are not that hard to get, especially not during a war.

And I would say that there is quite a gap between Not completely hopeless and actually skilled ;D

To the latter point, absolutely. To the former, I believe the Iron Cross first class was still something of a rarity for a mere corporal.

 

If he'd finished off England before breaking his treaty with Russia, as a truly intelligent tactician would have done... you do the maths.
you mean finished off Britain or the UK. Although, come to think of it, if England fell the chances of Scotland doing anything beyond celebrating are slim, and you don't want to know what the Welsh would be doing.
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you don't want to know what the Welsh would be doing.

 

Oh but I do!    Please be so kind and tell us.

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But more seriously, I do not think that RJ based any of the forsaken on a single bad character in our world. Rather he took the traits he needed from a number of evil leaders in our world, and distributed them as needed.

 

I think that this may be the closest to RJ's intentions. However, the similarities between Aginor and Mengel are quite startling...

By the way, I love how this thread has turned into 'Tactics of WWII'.

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A sign of true intlligence is the ability to make decisions dispassionatly.  Hitler's decision to fight a two front war was based on his hatred for what he considered "subhuman" races to the east.  Those were his opinions, not mine, so please no one take offense.

 

I'm sorry, but when the hell did a test for intelligence arise which was so utterly reliable. I'm just flabbergasted, really. You should write the next IQ test.

 

Hitler took a minority party and deftly rose through the ranks until he controlled a country. He also lifted that country from a position worse than that which Zimbabwe is in right now to one of the most powerful countries in the world, and certainly the most powerful in Europe.

 

Yes, he was a terrible person and he had terrible biases and had the power to act on this biases. But he was also a brilliant political tactician.

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I still want to know who Arthur is...because I think that you were thinking of Arthur as in King Arthur of camelot,round table and excalibur heheheheheheheh...good one

 

 

What about Robin Hood?  maybe birgitte?

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Guest The Thin Inn Keeper

I'm not saying Gen. Patton or Alexander the Great are in any way connected.

I know. I'm querying what, exactly, Patton and Arthur did to be "ranked" alongside the others.

A sign of true intlligence is the ability to make decisions dispassionatly.

Sure, that's one definition of intelligence.

If he'd finished off England before breaking his treaty with Russia, as a truly intellligent tactician would have done... you do the math.

But that doesn't mean that he wasn't brilliant in other fields. Newton came up with the theory of gravity. Doesn't mean I'd want him planning a war.

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    If you are really going to go along with this thread as I understand it, you could take it even further back and try to figure out where the 'modern' people came from the 'ancient'. Such as Atilla the Hun, Judas Iscariot, Muhammed, etc. This has been a great thread and I'm sorry I didn't really contribute other than to ask more questions but I'm a little tired right now.

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Guest The Thin Inn Keeper

I think it's probably more likely that RJ drew inspiration from a lot of historical figures and villian stereotypes.

 

I mean, let's face it. There are only so many archetypal villian figures out there. That's not to say that RJ hasn't filled his villians out or that they don't make for interesting characters, he did and they do.

 

But, RJ does appear to have covered all the bases. He's got the military commanders, the people who haunt your dreams, the head doctors, the meglomaniacs, the clearly insane, the cowards, the evil doctor, the hideously disfigured, and the scantily clad seductress.

 

All they need is a uniform of spandex with some kind of symbol of the breast and they'd be ready to roll.

 

I don't know, I don't think RJ was interested in making his villians similar to anyone in particular, but rather with filling out a rounded group of uber-villians.

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If Nynaeve is anyone, she's sarah palin.

 

Except that Nynaeve, despite what some people wants to believe, is quite intelligent, and cares about people ;D

 

If we go with relatively modern people, I would pick Eleanor Roosevelt as Nynaeve.

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The problem as I see it, is that comes the man comes the hour...

 

A general who is good today may indeed be reborn, but as a clerk in a store.  There are certain archetypes soldier, merchant, king, destroyer, fool, etc.. that you would be cast as, but indeed, just because you're a soldier every time doesn't mean you're a noted soldier.  The problem with reincarnation, is that unless you're spun out in a specific story (Heroes of the Horn, for one) or for a vary precise job (Dragon) your life is going to vary.  When you find your archetype, you may indeed be very lucky/happy/fortunate/successful/etc..  but that doesn't mean you'll find it.

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you don't want to know what the Welsh would be doing.
Oh but I do! Please be so kind and tell us.
It involves sheep, mines, valleys, and singing - the entirety of Welsh culture. Use your imagination.

 

I still want to know who Arthur is...because I think that you were thinking of Arthur as in King Arthur of camelot,round table and excalibur heheheheheheheh...good one

 

What about Robin Hood? maybe birgitte?

Robin Hood and King Arthur are both mythological, rather than historical, figures. I'm not sure they count.

 

By the way, I love how this thread has turned into 'Tactics of WWII'.
It really hasn't.

 

I'm not saying Gen. Patton or Alexander the Great are in any way connected.
I know. I'm querying what, exactly, Patton and Arthur did to be "ranked" alongside the others.
Apparently being an insufferable prick and a more or less competent commander constitutes being a major player of an Age. So you can add me to the list.
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