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RAND AL THOR

Half a dozen of my sisters- warning: thread has utterly derailed.

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In the beginning of the EotW, Moiraine says something like,

 

"Even with half a dozen of my sisters here, we may not have been able to stop the attack," or something like that regarding the trolloc attach on the TW.

 

What did you think when you saw her say 6 sisters? I swear I thought she meant 6 sisters related by blood and I thought they were a witchy family or something like that. ;D

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Guest Dreadlord

Funnily enough I actually read the Sword of Truth series before I heard of Wheel of Time, although I know Terry used RJs ideas not the other way round, and as soon as Aes Sedai were introduced I identified them as the original "Sisters of the Light" so I knew she meant her Aes Sedai companions rather than her siblings.

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What i find to be silly is the idea--six Aes Sedai unable to take down a hundred Trollocs. Moiraine alone should have been able to manage it.

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Sisters was quite an obvious reference at that point - the fact that she may be referring to siblings never crossed my mind. I'm not certain, but I also think 'S' was capitalized at that point, although it was changed later. I might be mistaken though.

 

Moiraine, I don't think she could have killed a hundred Trollocs, because she has a weak proficiency with Fire and Earth which are kinda neccessary for mass-killing. Even with her angreal she could only erect a wall for so long to prevent them from coming at her, and she was nearly exhausted. If the six other sisters mentioned are of the same type as Moiraine, and half as strong or even lower, I don't find it absurd that they'd have trouble dealing with a hundred Trollocs.

 

I think we are mostly overestimating Aes Sedai. The gap between Moiraine and Elayne and her equals is tremendous.

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Sisters was quite an obvious reference at that point - the fact that she may be referring to siblings never crossed my mind. I'm not certain, but I also think 'S' was capitalized at that point, although it was changed later. I might be mistaken though.

 

Moiraine, I don't think she could have killed a hundred Trollocs, because she has a weak proficiency with Fire and Earth which are kinda neccessary for mass-killing. Even with her angreal she could only erect a wall for so long to prevent them from coming at her, and she was nearly exhausted. If the six other sisters mentioned are of the same type as Moiraine, and half as strong or even lower, I don't find it absurd that they'd have trouble dealing with a hundred Trollocs.

 

I think we are mostly overestimating Aes Sedai. The gap between Moiraine and Elayne and her equals is tremendous.

 

Don't we see Moraine take on quite a few virtual Trollocs in the test for the shawl? Also she seems quite certain that she can take on 50 bandits on horseback later on in New Spring.

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Don't we see Moraine take on quite a few virtual Trollocs in the test for the shawl? Also she seems quite certain that she can take on 50 bandits on horseback later on in New Spring.

 

Where do we see her in the test? N Spring?

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Don't we see Moraine take on quite a few virtual Trollocs in the test for the shawl? Also she seems quite certain that she can take on 50 bandits on horseback later on in New Spring.
Where do we see her in the test? N Spring?
Yes. Chapters 9 and 10.

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The hundred trollocs in Emonds Field were not attacking en mass.  There were some over here some over there.  She couldn't use the carpet bombing weaves because the trollocs were intermingled with the villagers.

 

And the 50 bandits in NS was more of an over confident New AS then real strength. 

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And the 50 bandits in NS was more of an over confident New AS then real strength. 

I agree. She was newly raised and still fairly naive. She probably learned later just exactly what she could and could not handle. The Trollocs in her testing were not real; she could imagine herself doing that even if she did not have the strength in real life. (But she is fairly strong; so she could possibly have taken on so many if they were all that close together and she was desperate. People can do crazy things when they are desperate)

 

I don't think she could have taken on all the Emond's Field trollocs singlehandedly, AND done all the Healing as well, angreal or not. Seven fairly strong Aes Sedai, I think would have had a fair chance, because they could have split up and each gone after a group of Trollocs. And I mean a fair chance of protecting ONLY the town, there's no way seven could have covered all the farms as well.

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Somewhere between twelve and twenty channelers took out one hundred thousand trollocs in KoD. Thats an average of 5,000 per channeler.

 

The majority of those channelers were normal Aes Sedai, women much weaker than Moiraine, with no angreal. Even assuming that LTT's new webs played a massive role in that, those numbers still speak for themselves.

 

So yes, Moiraine with an angreal should have been able to handle alot more than one hundred trollocs.

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Remember the 3 oath's preventing the use of the power as a weapon since the war of power most Aes Sedai would not be familiar with using the power as a weapon so may well have struggled Rand is getting info on how to do this from LTT and the Ashaman have only recently been about.

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I think Kaznen's point is a good one.  In KOD, the Trollocs attacked en masse, so the Aes Sedai were free to blast away at them with Lightning and Fire.  I think Moiraine would have been able to handle a hundred Trollocs in a group, but the Trollocs were already inside the town.  She had collateral damage to worry about.

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Somewhere between twelve and twenty channelers took out one hundred thousand trollocs in KoD. Thats an average of 5,000 per channeler.

 

The majority of those channelers were normal Aes Sedai, women much weaker than Moiraine, with no angreal. Even assuming that LTT's new webs played a massive role in that, those numbers still speak for themselves.

 

So yes, Moiraine with an angreal should have been able to handle alot more than one hundred trollocs.

Yeah but these were 100k Trollocs in a big mass. A hundred Trollocs spread out in clumps of three or four, running around torching a village full of panicking people would be much more difficult to deal with.

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I think that she should be able to shoot 100 blasts of fire, plus lets not forget she knew balefire, and while it might've been a good last resort. Lets not forget she killed easily the equivalent of about 100 trollocs in EoW whne they were in the hills. Lan was to busy with the mydrayal to worry about the trollocs.

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Guest The Thin Inn Keeper

Yeah but these were 100k Trollocs in a big mass. A hundred Trollocs spread out in clumps of three or four, running around torching a village full of panicking people would be much more difficult to deal with.

Plus, the 100k trollocs happened to come up against Rand, possibly the most powerful male channeler and Logain (not far behind him).

plus lets not forget she knew balefire, and while it might've been a good last resort.

We're not entirely sure when she learnt balefire. I was under the impression that she learnt it later on.

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We're not entirely sure when she learnt balefire. I was under the impression that she learnt it later on.

 

What is "later on?" She uses balefire at the end of The Dragon Reborn. When could she have learned it between The Eye of the World and The Dragon Reborn?

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Guest The Thin Inn Keeper

What is "later on?" She uses balefire at the end of The Dragon Reborn. When could she have learned it between The Eye of the World and The Dragon Reborn?

I can't recall, that's why I was vague. But there certainly is a line of thinking that states that Moiraine learnt/figured out how to use Balefire after leaving the Two Rivers.

 

I'm sure someone remembers the thread.

 

Here we are:

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,29808.msg777317.html#msg777317

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,25900.0.html

 

The second one doesn't add much, but I'd draw your attention to the quote regarding her talk with Perrin.

 

The wording "I'm stronger and more dangerous" (my bold) is odd. To me, if she were more dangerous due to her power, she wouldn't say "and". To me, that indicates something more.

 

In any case, there are a good few people who think she learnt balefire after the Two Rivers.

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Guest Dreadlord

Balefire wouldnt help much in taking out 100 trollocs, not unless you were planning to take them out one by one, and I duno if Moiraine could handle that

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It's pretty damn obvious that Moiraine learnt Balefire after the EotW. If she knew it back then, she'd have used it on Aginor like she did with Be'lal. There's not even a question there IMO.

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i'm with luckers on this one.  moiraine not being able to take out a single fist is outrageous.  moiraine and 6 other sisters not being able to take out a fist is simple inconceivable.

 

RJ simply went a little overboard with dramatic effect.

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We're not entirely sure when she learnt balefire. I was under the impression that she learnt it later on.

 

What is "later on?" She uses balefire at the end of The Dragon Reborn. When could she have learned it between The Eye of the World and The Dragon Reborn?

 

Moiraine was on "retreat" all of TGH...

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i'm with luckers on this one.  moiraine not being able to take out a single fist is outrageous.  moiraine and 6 other sisters not being able to take out a fist is simple inconceivable.

 

RJ simply went a little overboard with dramatic effect.

Think of it this way. A heavy machine gun will massacre an entire battalion if it charges across an open field. But if a single company infiltrates a village and attacks from different directions the machine gun is of much less utility unless you're willing to gun down scores of villagers.

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