Rand's Early Channelling

[algspkr]

Before Rand channelled the Eye of the World it is generally accepted that he had only channelled three times (at least that is the impression I have received from the boards).  I agreed with this ascesment until my current reread.  I believe that Rand channelled four times prior to the Eye.

 

1.  Leaving the Two Rivers, helping Bela run.  Rand went a bit goofy with the Children of the Light in Baerlon because of this.

2.  Pulling the boom on Captain Doman's boat into a trolloc to save himself.  Rand climbed to the top of the mast and slid down despite a complete lack of training because of this.

3.  Frying Gode and escaping the Flying Cartman with lightening.  Rand had trouble walking because of this and counted himself lucky that he got a ride to recover.

4.  In an unnamed village after the Four Kings incident Rand went into a full inn looking to play for a room.  Right after the innkeeper agreed to the deal Rand all but passed out, and spent a good part of the night recovering in a barn.  I believe Rand channelled at the inn keeper to get a room in exchange for playing.

 

Any comments?

[Hybrid]

#4 is part of the reaction to channeling.  This article has the list of Rand's channeling incidents.

 

http://www.darkfriends.net/wheel/2_nondark/2.1_taveren/2.1.4_rand-op-syn.html

[Roxinos]

I'm fairly certain that when he climbed to the top of the wall to get a better look at Logain and Logain smiled at him, he was holding the Power. But it's been a long while since I read the series, so I'd have to have someone with more knowledge of it come and confirm or deny it.

[Razor]

No but he blazed like the sun.  Logain must have the talent for seeing Tavareen.

[Shaidar_Rannow]

Or he held all the power he could more than logain himself can, the glow surrounds you when you embrace the source. Rand is stronger than any other but LTT and ishy. By the way, it was Suian who said he blazed like the sun, that is how she reconized him. I think logain just saw a glow dont have the books right now to confirm but I am sure someone else will assist me in that.

[Roxinos]

Men cannot tell when other men are channeling through sight. They can feel a general sense of power from other men while they get a tingle on their skin when women are channeling.

 

No but he blazed like the sun.  Logain must have the talent for seeing Tavareen.

 

That scene was in Logain's perspective?

[Ashaman Kovan]

Men cannot tell when other men are channeling through sight. They can feel a general sense of power from other men while they get a tingle on their skin when women are channeling.

 

No but he blazed like the sun.  Logain must have the talent for seeing Tavareen.

 

That scene was in Logain's perspective?

 

I'm pretty sure thats when nynaeve is studying severing. He says he "Saw a man once, he might have been the dragon reborn" and I think thats where he mentions something to the effect of him glowing or shining.

[Roxinos]

Ah. I was talking about the scene in Rand's perspective in the first book. Not the scene later with Logain. So yes, it seems that Logain does have talent to see ta'veren.

[Vemynal]

Logain does have the ability to see tavern, in book 6 he mentions that when in Camylan he saw a man who would shake the very foundations of the world and he couldnt help but laugh.

 

We also know right as Rand saw logain he began laughing

 

its just assumed, but its a strong assumption

[Cockta]

It was most probably Rand, because I can't see another person making so much change as Rand, not even all teh forsaken combined.

[Fryn]

Logain also laughed just after passing Rand's field of view.

 

"Logain threw back his head and laughed as the Palace swallowed him."

[Roxinos]

You're focusing too strongly on that part. I posed a question.

 

The scene in which Rand climbed the wall and got an eyeful of Logain and was met by a man seeming to enjoy himself was in Rand's perspective, no? From the description of Rand's feelings as he was traveling to the wall and then climbing up it, I can only assume that he was holding the Power. And since this thread was originally about times in which Rand channeled, doesn't holding the Power count?

 

I don't care much about Logain's talents.

[Valinthros]

Just to clarify, as it was above:

 

When a _woman_ is holding Saidar, there is a glow that can be seen by other female channelers.

 

When a _man_ is holding Saidin, it is not a 'visual' effect that one see's but more a feeling.  There is an exact definition in the BWB I believe, and it's been explained in many passages in the series.

 

There is no glow that a man will see.

 

To expand; if he was holding the power, I think Logain would have exhibited a very different reaction.  Shock might be one.  So, in my opinion, and with reading the passage again, there is no indication that he did channel.  In fact there were no 'channeling side effects'.  This is assuming that early channelers receive the same side effects from holding the power as actually channeling it.

[SqueeEGA]

Why would rand be holding the power in this instance?  in that scene he recalls climbing cliffs with Mat and Perrin as children that were more difficult.

[Roxinos]

Just to clarify, as it was above:

 

Thanks, I suppose, but I'd already mentioned that, as you acknowledged.

 

However, even if he was holding the Power, the distance from which he was watching Logain was far too great for Logain to have felt Rand holding the Power. If that were the case, then Rand would simply be able to walk into any town and instantly know if anyone was channeling. That is not the case, distance needs to be taken into account when talking about men feeling other people channeling.

 

So no, Logain would not have exhibited any different signs because Logain would not have been able to see him channeling. Even if he did, I don't think Logain would have been shocked to see another man sitting on a wall holding the Power.

 

In fact there were no 'channeling side effects'.  This is assuming that early channelers receive the same side effects from holding the power as actually channeling it.

 

I believe they do, but I'm going to look back at the passage whenever I get home.

[Valinthros]

So no, Logain would not have exhibited any different signs because Logain would not have been able to see him channeling. Even if he did, I don't think Logain would have been shocked to see another man sitting on a wall holding the Power.

 

*chuckles*  When rand looks at anyone holding the power, no matter the distance, if he is in LOS he can tell.  The same would be true of Logain, especially since he noticed Rand to begin with.  Oh yes, he would have had a different reaction altogether.  A shining man holding the one power.

 

Add on to this the fact that there was nothing in any of the chapter to suggest that he needed to hold the power, or use it for any reason.  In the past he has channeled at great need only. As SqueeEGA mentioned, it wasnt that much of a chore.

 

We could agree to disagree here.  That's fine by me.  ;)

[Dakeyras]

*chuckles*  When rand looks at anyone holding the power, no matter the distance, if he is in LOS he can tell.  The same would be true of Logain, especially since he noticed Rand to begin with.  Oh yes, he would have had a different reaction altogether.  A shining man holding the one power.

 

A man identifies another man holding the power by feeling. LOS has nothing to do with it. How could it when there's no visible cue? I believe Rand states the amount of the one power that a man channels is what helps another man sense him from a greater distance. Nothing to do with los.

 

[Cockta]

Well, then maybe Rand held as much as he could.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Well, then maybe Rand held as much as he could.

 

If he was holding as much as he could then wouldn't he have had the feelings like he does later? The pain and strain of almost going to the point of being burnt out, all the heightened senses and whatnot.

[Roxinos]

Nah, I just read the passage again. I was going off of sheer memory earlier. But Valinthros was right, there is evidence of Rand channeling in that instance.

 

I'm not sure why I had that idea in mind. Perhaps I just have a huge jumble in my mind.

 

It doesn't matter.

[Hybrid]

Ahem.  Rand was NOT holding the power because he got no sickness reaction in the necessary time frame. 

[Roxinos]

Yes, we've already established that.

[Luckers]

Back to original topic, it seems possible that there was indeed a fourth instance of Rand channeling prior to the Eye--though not the one suggested. When Rand's part is in the Blight and fleeing from a Worm Pack they manage to attain the Eye--though there are some oddities, for starters that Moiraine manage to return to the Eye even though it was specifically made so that that was not possible. Secondly they manage to reach the Eye before even the foothills of the Mountains of Dhoom, when no one else ever managed prior to the Mountains themselves.

 

I remember when i first read that accepting Moiraine's explanation--that their need was the need of the world, and thus great enough to overcome the strictures. This, however, seems a tad convenient--and then a old poster here pointed out the following passage.

 

The Blight had turned to foothills. He could see the route they must climb once they reached the mountains, the twisting path and the high pass beyond, like an axe blow cleaving into the black stone. Light, what's up ahead that can scare what's behind? Light help me, I've never been so afraid. I don't want to go any further. No further! Seeking the flame and the void, he railed at himself. Fool! You frightened, cowardly fool! You can't stay here, and you can't go back. Are you going to leave Egwene to face it alone? The void eluded him, forming, then shivering into a thousand points of light, re-forming and shattering again, each point burning into his bones until he quivered with the pain and thought he must burst open. Light help me, I can't go on. Light help me!

 

He was gathering the bay's reins to turn back, to face the Worms or anything rather than what lay ahead, when the nature of the land changed. Between one slope of a hill and the next, between crest and peak, the Blight was gone.

 

So, yes, i'd say he channeled a fourth time before the Eye--to find the Eye.

[Roxinos]

So, yes, i'd say he channeled a fourth time before the Eye--to find the Eye.

 

The only problem with that is that I don't see why Rand's channeling would affect the appearance of the Eye. It's more of a leap of faith to suggest something like the fact that the Eye is pure saidin would allow his channeling to attract it, or something other than the given explanation. There's no reason to believe that Rand channeling would be different from Moiraine channeling or any other traveler who has reached the Eye's channeling other than the fact that he channels the male half of the Source and that's what the Eye is made of. Which is where the leap of faith comes in.

 

I'm willing to go with the intense need drew the Eye to them. Moiraine romanticized it a bit saying that it was the need of the world, but I think being chased by Worms and Rand being the Dragon Reborn is enough to draw the Eye to them.

[Hybrid]

Interesting quote, Luckers.  The Eye must have had something to do with TAR due to its nature: need being the key to finding it and its ability to exist in different places depending on where the seeker was.  Rand may have unconsciously done some sort of channeling that drew the Eye to their position since Moiraine (and probably Lan) had already been there.  After all, he was in mortal danger at the time, which is the condition necessary for unconscious channeling.  Why not Moiraine?  Well, for starters, she's not one of the characters known for making revolutionary discoveries of lost Talents.  In addition, she's nowhere near as powerful as Rand.

 

Yes, we've already established that.

 

Sorry.  I didn't see it in the thread, and people kept arguing over whether Logain was able to see him or not and whether he expressed knowledge of holding the power.