Who else is mad at Faile

[Andrew B.]

I'm ticked at Faile. She is a jerk to Perrin in Lord of Chaos with the whole "Don't go for Berelain thing". The she gets to be a servant, which I enjoyed, because I love Perrin, and was still mad at her for Lord of Chaos. Then she goes and cheats on him with Roland. Sure some people would say she didn't have much of a choice, but she did, she was a pretty bad wife, she could have just slapped Roland, and took the punishment, but staying true to her husband, which I would have done, staying pure rather than cheat on my spouce. I love Perrin he is awesome, he seriously deserves better. The most Faile could do is say sorry and adress it, rather then this whole Perrin will never know even though he can tell wether I feel guilty or not. I for one hope we get some sort of sorry from her before the end of the series. Before Lord of Chaos I thought Faile was awesome, but know I hate her. Your thoughts?

[Jonn]

wha...huh?

[Aviendha]

I agree - Faile is a pain and Perin does deserver better.

 

I can't quite see what Perin seeing in Faile - but then they say love is blind (it must also is deaf & dumb).

 

I don't think Faile's mum was/is much better either. Both have a 'I'll do what I want and to hell with anyone that says otherwise' type of attitude and what they think is right is very limited by their own personal needs & desires.

 

Neither seem to have much of a social conscience. Neither care if the world is detroyed so long as their little world is okay.

 

Her dad now. He's the opposite.

[Kadere]

I love Faile. LOVE HER! So yep, no problems with Faile.

[Prempt]

Just got done reading "A Hell in Maderin" and yeah, you can add Tuon to that list. I can already predict what will happen when Perrin rescues Faile. She'll probably smack him or something and get all pissed off at him for coming after her. She'll say something about how she wanted to escape. Tuon makes me sick for how she treats Mat. He just saved her life and she still calls him "Toy". I was hoping she'd call him Mat for the first time too. Ah well. Another Perrin chapter coming up *twirls finger*.

 

Don't get me wrong though, I love this series. Heck, I hate reading yet I can't put these books down. Taking out all the drama with the girls would probably ruin it but then again, having them all be a little nicer towards their significant others/spouses wouldn't have hurt.

[SinisterDeath]

I'm ticked at Faile. She is a jerk to Perrin in Lord of Chaos with the whole "Don't go for Berelain thing".

 

And you think Berlain actually "loves" Perrin?

HELL NO. Berlain is a slut' date=' she is one of the FEW wot women I wouldnt mind seeing spending afew years hanging from the top of the raven tower in seanchan.

Quite simply, Berlain is the kind of women, who only WANTED perrin, not because of "physical attraction" but because, she couldn't have him. NO man, besides perrin has "resisted" her charm. And she wanted to charm the beast. After she did, she would leave perrin in the dust.

Then of course the entire arguement behind people hating faile being with perrin lies in the way she treats perrin.

You are all forgetting one major thing.

PERRIN comes from an Openly Male Dominate Society. *women have "power" but its more "subtle"*

FAILE comes from a FEMALE Dominate Society.

Its called "cross culture mixing" They are both from 2 polar extremes. Obviously they are going to have problems.

 

If you like perrin as a character, you should also care for the fact that he married the women he loves. And she loves him, there is no doubting that, and if you believe otherwise, I sugjest re-reading the series, and taking her head out yer rear. RJ is all about putting his characters with people who have contridictary beliefs, and love each other regardless.. He likes putting them in awkard situations. RJ IS all about Gender and how they intereact with each other. There is a reason WoT is one of the greatest book series ever written.

 

 

The she gets to be a servant, which I enjoyed, because I love Perrin, and was still mad at her for Lord of Chaos.

See above. Also, if you didnt realize, when she was captured, it only PROVED to the reader how much PERRIN truelly does love faile.

 

Then she goes and cheats on him with Roland.

 

She did not cheat with Roland' date=' it got close a few times, but that was quite simply because he was forcing him self on her, and if anything "did" happen, and I somehow skipped it, it could be called "rape", which is not "cheating".

 

Sure some people would say she didn't have much of a choice, but she did, she was a pretty bad wife, she could have just slapped Roland, and took the punishment, but staying true to her husband, which I would have done, staying pure rather than cheat on my spouce.

 

Same as above. Now if you think the "cheating" was her using roland to escape the aiel...

 

 

I love Perrin he is awesome, he seriously deserves better. The most Faile could do is say sorry and adress it, rather then this whole Perrin will never know even though he can tell wether I feel guilty or not. I for one hope we get some sort of sorry from her before the end of the series.

 

If anything did happen, which I say didn't, she will tell perrin. You don't think RJ would skip that plot device do you?

 

Before Lord of Chaos I thought Faile was awesome, but know I hate her. Your thoughts?

 

She is and always was a awesome character. So is Perrin. They are two polar opposites, yet they loves each other. One thing about people is they aren't easilly changed. And perrin and faile aren't to the exception. Faile is used to men who when they get mad at there wives, they start yelling. Perrin, who you should by now, is afraid of "hurting" people with his strength. He was also grew up with the mentatlity of talking it out with people, and not raising his voice & getting mad. *partly also due to his strength*

These two people combined make for "interesting" times.

 

The same arguement can be applied to Tuon & Mat.. However Mat atm doesn't "love" Tuon, but he knows he has to marry her. He will probably find some reason to "love her" later. And of course, she is a "spoiled" but "not spoiled" brat. Those two come from VERY DIFFERENT cultures, which will make the perrin & Faile pale in comparison between Tuon and Mat. *Specially since Tuon and Mat atm don't exactly 'love' each other.

 

*Btw, If I came off as a little harsh, I'm sorry but I constantly hear people putting down Faile, Nyneave, Elayne, Egwene for all the wrong reasons. They dislike the "b*tchyness atidude, but don't understand the character they are playing, theres a reason RJ says the women in his book are "strong women".*

[KellySedai]

Faile DID NOT cheat on Perrin!

 

She was ALMOST in a situation where she would have to, but it didn't come to that yet when he saved her.

 

She's an okay character, I could live without her but Perrin loves her so I can deal with her. :D

[dagwall]

Faile didn't cheat on Perrin. At the end when Galina failed her and Rolan saved her she had decided to do what she had to do for Rolan to help her escape. Because at that point there was no turning back and trying again later for her and the others. So yeah she was ready to give into Rolan but she hadn't yet.

 

The guilt she felt when Perrin did rescue her was for Perrin killing Rolan. Perrin only managed to kill Rolan as easily as he did because Rolan paused on hearing Faile call out Perrin's name. I think quite possilbily if she didn't call out his name and Rolan pause for that second Perrin might have been killed himself. Or badly injured at least. I don't believe Faile will regret that for a second but she still feels guilty about it.

[elmindreda]

i dont like faile either for the smae reasons and she always has so many secrets from perrin at one point i even thought she might be a darkfriend because she has so many secrets

[Kadere]

At first I always assumed she was the woman that Min warned him against, but she's not. So I have no problem with her.

[elmindreda]

isnt the woman she warned him agaist lanfear?

[Chang]

I always figured it was Berelain that Min was trying to warn him about, but then again, it could be Lanfear. *shrugs and grins*

 

And personally, I'm not really angry with Faile. More like confused.. Mainly due to her whole angery attitude with Perrin, whenever Berelain is around, or any other woman for that matter...

 

Poor Perrin has been trying to get rid of Berelain for what seems like a long time, trying to show Faile that she's his one and only true love and such. But Faile just keeps on getting jealous.

 

Is it because Faile is just overly protective? I'm just really confused, like I said before, about the whole situation :P.

[dagwall]

Min warned Perrin about a hawk and a falcon. I think the hawk and falcon could both represent the Seachean. They're big on bird sigil. Don't remember who exactly was mentioned but I think both a hawk and a falcon have been mentioned as sigil for Seachean Blood.

 

But it could just as easily be Faile and Berelain, being that Faile is falcon and Berelain's sigil has something to do with a hawk (or that she's a decendent of Artur Hawkwing).

[Andrew B.]

i dont like faile either for the smae reasons and she always has so many secrets from perrin at one point i even thought she might be a darkfriend because she has so many secrets

Exactyl! Why can't Faile just be true to Perrin, then I would love her. Really aside from all of her secrets she is a ok character, I could live with her if she just doesn't hide everything from Perrin.

[loosehead]

your all so harsh on faile

 

big up the woman!!! she rocks... the whole her and perrin thing is hilarious

 

the wolf, falcon, hawk idea is great because the whole animal thing rules

 

 

the nature behind these people is great... unlike matt or rand they are so far fetched its cool...

 

well i cant put it into words but the relationship is great

[SinisterDeath]

Exactyl! Why can't Faile just be true to Perrin, then I would love her. Really aside from all of her secrets she is a ok character, I could live with her if she just doesn't hide everything from Perrin.

 

Because her culture raises strong women. Women are predominant. They want "Strong men" not wimps. They want men who will fight for the women they love. They want men who will Raise there voice and shout at the wife when they get mad, and want what they want. Perrin doesnt do that, he is calm, and collected. He is intelligent, while afraid of his strength. And he is from a culture where men were openly dominant, while having to "battle" against subtle actions by the wives. *IE, they were the true power in emonds field, they just couldn't make the "fast decisions" when needed to, the mens consoul did that, however if they voted against what the "wife" didn't want, they wouldn't get supper, and would have to sleep on the "couch" which was effective enough in that society" for them to have power.

Failes, The women hold more dominant power, while men occasionally get to make the decisions, depending on how "strong" they were.

[mightisright]

Faile is from a what is in some ways is a very coarse culture. Certainly not a female dominated culture.(unless your getting stuff from the guide i haven't seen) Any culture that is so militarized (being on the blight) cannot help but be at the very least somewhere in between (compared to say far madding with no worries). The women don't have the last say...reread Perrin's encounter with Faile's parents for evidence on that. That said, I would contend it is not a culture of 'strong' or 'weak' women but women who are very aggressive. Women that want men who can rough them up when they get of control. A very competitive society. Just look at Faile. Very loyal, very jealous, and very driven. I would consider her strong in some ways and a ***** in others. In some ways Saldian women seem to epitomize 'stand by your man' but not in a weak sense.

 

It is a fallacy to suggest that the bitchyness in some of RJ's female characters is what makes them 'strong women'. In some ways this ignorance and hatred almost makes them fools. Making logical decisions and sacrifices makes you strong. Which most them do. Laying blame, hardships, crap, and superstitions at the feet of men is not. Those are just mechanisms RJ uses to stir things up, not evidence of strong women. RJ imbues most of his female characters with both of these characteristics, but do not confuse what makes them strong with petty prejudices. Berlain is as strong as Faile in her own way. By KOD we can see she is a decent woman as she begins to respect Perrin and leave him alone. I might mess around with Perrin too if Faile was such a jealous person, just to piss her off. Do you remember when Faile met Min? Not nice...

 

All and all I don't hate Faile, i just don't particularly like her either.

[dagwall]

I don't think Berelian stopped messing with Perrin because she "came to her senses." I think she's going to start right back up again when Faile and Perrin are around her again. She just realized there wasn't a point to continuing without Faile around. She only does it to piss Faile off, it's all a "game" between her and Faile. Perrin is just a pawn in the middle.

[mightisright]

ok, i can agree with that.

[Roxinos]

I loved Faile up to the point where Perrin became Lord of the Two Rivers. Then she just got progressively worse. Her personality didn't change, that's just the type of person she is. And I don't like that type of person. She loves Perrin, I don't deny that, but she cares too much about his status (Lord) over who he is.

 

I suppose you can say that my argument is cut short with her constantly calling Perrin "blacksmith" in a loving way, and that's why I say she loves him. But she still cares too much about what he is over who he is. Proof lies in her little clique that she uses to spy and stuff.

[Kadere]

That's because if she didn't push him to be a Lord he would run off and be a blacksmith and stop being Ta'veren all together. He's reluctent to take charge as he needs to. Even in the Two Rivers in TSR he hates people calling him "Lord", following him around, or showing him respect. He wants to be a blacksmith, and he CAN'T be a blacksmith.

 

Faile loves him for who he is, be she also knows what he must become, and forces him down that path he needs to follow. As soon as she's kidnapped he does take control, complete and utter, because he wants her back. He is now ready to deal with what he needs to do for the Last Battle.

[Eve]

The women in these books are not bitchy! They are strong women who know what they want and how to get it. If they have to manipulate a man to get him to move the way they want him to, and can pull it off, that would only make them smart, not bitchy. They are pround and strong, but they all have a balance. Faile may give Perrin a hard time, but you don't hear him complaining about how sensitive she is when it's just the two of them in the sack. She genuinely loves him and is doing her best to help him become who he has to become. "The wheel weaves as the wheel wills", and the wheel wills Faile!!!!!

 

As for the rest of the women in these books, my opinions are the same. They aren't bitchy, just determined.

[dagwall]

hehe, well Nyn and Elayne were pretty bitchy with Mat back in Edu Dar. Really going back to when they met up with him in Salidar. They never gave him credit for anything and always assumed the worst in him. That was funny to read but it really only comes down to them being bitchy. In some ways they are trying to get what they want from him and think the only way to do it is to manipulate him. And in some respects that may be true but not nearly as much as they think it is. They fact that Nyn refuses to thank him, apologize, or anything like that is bitchy. It is her character and I love reading it but she really can be a b*tch.

 

Edited because b*tch became cute fuzzy puppy....

[Eve]

Nynaeve has good reason for being that way with Mat. She switched his butt several times for being mischevious when he was younger. She remembers him that way. As, for Elayne, she has heard the stories from Nynaeve and Egwene and he has yet to show them any different. They like to believe that they don't need his help, and in most situations they didn't need his help. He thinks they are dumb women who can't take care of themselves when actually they are quite capable of watching each others' backs.

[mightisright]

You should really look at my comments above again.

 

Making logical decisions and sacrifices makes you strong. Which most them do. Laying blame, hardships, crap, and superstitions at the feet of men is not. Those are just mechanisms RJ uses to stir things up, not evidence of strong women. do not confuse what makes them strong with petty prejudices.

 

Do not confuse Elayne and Nynaeve's sometimes childish behavior as an example of 'strong women'. Elayne acted like a 'strong women' when she apologized, not when she tried to order him around. Admiting when your wrong is much harder then acting in ignorance and arrogance. Elayne has been much better behaved ever since. Nynaeve is also tolerable as she is the series longest running joke. You can't take her actions or rants seriously. Now Mat just needs an apology from Egwene. Their hearts are in the right place they just needed Mat to teach them manners. Kind of like Cadsuane and Rand.