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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

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We know that Cyndane is obviosly Lanfear. We know this because she says that the Aelfinn and Eelfinn had held her and she calls Rand Lews Therin. But  despite the clues, the forsaken are still convinced Cyndane is not Lanfear because she is much weaker in the power than Lanfear was. What i want to know, is why she is weaker than she was??

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I'm pretty sure all the others are the same as they were. I mean aran'gar is a woman now but still channels the male half of the OP, so the others must of stayed the same. So why is Cyndane/Lanfear weaker? I don't think it really matters at all, but i've just been curious as to why.

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Most likely she was severed at some point after entering the Ter'angreal, then healed by a channeler of the same sex , as seen with Siuan and Leane.

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Guest Dreadlord

Cyndane wasnt spun out, she was reincarnated. I reckon she was burnt out, since I remember her having an angreal at that scene at the harbor when Moiraine tackled her. Didn't Moiraine knock it out of her hands? If so, Lanfear may have been channeling more than she could handle when she lost her grip on it and it burnt her out. Maybe it didnt happen exactly like that, but I reckon she was burnt out.

 

We have had no evidence saying that being burnt out is the same as being severed. It gets to the same result (not being able to channel) but channeling more than you can handle can burn you out or even kill you, so it does seem like more than being severed.

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I don't think being severed or burnt out would matter, because she was killed in the end anyway and the DO took her soul and gave it a new body... I don't know, maybe it doesn't matter at all. But I just wonder why RJ would have made her weaker anyway. I don't think he does anything for no reason, so maybe something important happens in the story because of it.

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How did she die?

 

She fell though the same door that Moiraine did and she is still alive to be rescued?

 

Could it be that the DO did somne thing to her when he/it brought her back from the other side of the door??

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Guest Toad

Lanfear always had her own agenda regarding Rand/LTT.  Maybe the DO decided to teach her a lesson by bringing her back weaker.

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I've also thought the DO might have punished her, but isn't it punishment enough the Ishy has the mindtrap? And why whould he punish her by making her weaker? It would be abit like shooting yourself in the foot, they even say that the DO can't afford to kill anymore of the Chosen like he did in the WoP. I think something important will happen because of it.

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Who knows? RJ didn't spend much time on it, but he made it VERY obvious that Cyndane is Lanfear and she is weaker than she was. He mentioned it like 3 or 4 times, so i'm sure it has some part to play in aMoL.

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I kinda think its an effect of the mindtrap.  Grated Moghidien doesn't seem to be suffering any reduction in stregnth, but she was much weaker than Lanfear.  It could be that the mindtrap can allow the trapee only so much stregnth in the power and Moggy's stregnth fell below the cuttoff point while Lanfear's did not.  Or it could be that the holder of the mindtrap is able to limit the stregnth of the trapee and Moridin has chosen to limit Lanfear's stregnth.  Whatever the case I like this idea because it allows for the possiblity of Cyndane escaping from the mindtrap and returning to full stregnth.

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Who knows? RJ didn't spend much time on it, but he made it VERY obvious that Cyndane is Lanfear and she is weaker than she was. He mentioned it like 3 or 4 times, so i'm sure it has some part to play in aMoL.

 

Like maybe she isnt weaker at all? Maybe she's masking some of her ability, to gain other people (forsaken's) trust, throw them off her scent (although Moggy knows she's Lanfear) and make them feel safe standing where they can't see her all the time. Mistake, me thinks.

 

On the whole, I dont know. Something to do with the Finns I reckon really.

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Something that people should bear in mind is that there is one and only one possible cause supported by the evidence in the books. It doesn't rely on wishful thinking, on Shai'tan's willingness to harm His own cause, previously unheard of capabilities of the mindtrap or any other crap like that. The only comparable case is Siuan and Leane. They were severed. They were Healed by a woman. They are weaker. Ter'angreal are dangerous things, and it is mentioned that they can sever people if they are mishandled. Given that the one Lanfear and Moriane went through was going into meltdown, I think saying it was mishandled is an understatement. So, from that there is a likelihood of severing. Following that, we know Lanfear was held, we know that Moiraine is still enjoying their delightful company - and we see them shy away when Rand channels his fire sword in their realm. So how could they be held if they could channel? One answer is that they couldn't channel because they were severed. Moiraine's bond to Lan was snapped. The only things we know of that can do that are death and severing. Moiraine is not dead. There is thus a weight of evidence towards them being severed upon their passage through the doorway. As a man would have Healed her all the way, she was thus Healed by a woman. This would result in the strength loss we observe, and is the only thing we know of that fits - no-one has reason to put on a shield, and she would try to break it if she could. Also, I'm not sure if her being shielded would show up to the other female Chosen in the way it does - would they actually perceieve her maximum as being reduced, or would they perceive her as unable to reach her maximum, because of the shield? Or would they notice any difference at all?

 

I don't think being severed or burnt out would matter

SEVERED AND BURNT OUT ARE THE SAME THING. Severing is the AoL term, and the only one they used. Furthermore, from what we can gather the channeling state remains constant. Aran'gar still channels saidin, for example. So severed Lanfear would still be severed when her soul is put in a new body, and would thus still need Healing. Did any men know how to do it at the time Cyndane came back? Any of them side with the Shadow? If not, then it would have to be done by a woman, which would cause the strength loss we observe.

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Oh i c, thats actually really clever... So they were both burnt out or whatever, makes sense. But if they both couldn't channel, how'd Moiraine live and Lanfear die? Did Moiraine make a deal with Finns or something?

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Oh I see. You're really clever... So they were both burnt out or whatever, makes sense. But if they both couldn't channel, how'd Moiraine live and Lanfear die? Did Moiraine make a deal with Finns or something?
Moiraine making a deal is doubtful. Destroying a valuable trade route is not a good way to get people to want to deal with you. More likely they were both held captive and Lanfear died later - we can't be sure of how, thugh. Possible suggestions include suicide, killed while trying to escape, and executed.

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Lanfear dying during an attempt to escape is by far the most likely thing. I really can not see her commit suicide, even she she had had the means to do it, which seems quite a bit unlikely since she was a prisoner.

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Lanfear dying during an attempt to escape is by far the most likely thing. I really can not see her commit suicide, even she she had had the means to do it, which seems quite a bit unlikely since she was a prisoner.

 

i agree she wouldnt kill herself but everyone everywhere has the means

 

you simply bite your tongue in half and drown in your own blood

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Lanfear dying during an attempt to escape is by far the most likely thing. I really can not see her commit suicide, even she she had had the means to do it, which seems quite a bit unlikely since she was a prisoner.

 

i agree she wouldnt kill herself but everyone everywhere has the means

 

you simply bite your tongue in half and drown in your own blood

 

It could be thet killing her self was her escape as she new the DO would give her a new body.

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There's one small problem with Mr Ares version of things -

 

Aginor seems to have burned himself out rather thoroughly.  In fact so thoroughly that he also burned himself down.  ( or up, take your pick - wasn't anything left but some ash ) So, if being burned out prior to death ( or even as part of dying ) means that a transmigrated soul would have to be healed who healed Osan'gar?

 

"Then it is time for you to go into the world once more in the service of the Great Lord," Shaidar Haran said.  "None but I and the Great Lord knows you live. ...

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There's one small problem with Mr Ares version of things -

 

Aginor seems to have burned himself out rather thoroughly.  In fact so thoroughly that he also burned himself down.  ( or up, take your pick - wasn't anything left but some ash ) So, if being burned out prior to death ( or even as part of dying ) means that a transmigrated soul would have to be healed who healed Osan'gar?

 

"Then it is time for you to go into the world once more in the service of the Great Lord," Shaidar Haran said.  "None but I and the Great Lord knows you live. ...

 

Did he burn himself out and then die or did he channel so much of the One Power that he killed himself instantly? Did Lews Therin burn himself out when he died or does channeling so much of the One Power that you burn yourself to ash happen before the severing?

 

I think channeling so much of the one power that you burn yourself to ash instantly would negate you being severed as you're already dead.

 

...Chicken or the egg?

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"Mine!"  Flame shot from Aginor's mouth, broke through his eyes like spears of fire, and he screamed.

 

If drawing so much that flames shoot out of his eyes and mouth didn't burn him out, nothing would.

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