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DRAGONMOUNT

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Bob T Dwarf

Eerie similarities...

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Back before he went out into the wider world on his own, when Mat was still sheltering under Rand's wing, so-to-speak, a young woman attached herself to him.  Her name was Melindhra, and she found his eyes to be pretty.  She also found him to be a magnificent specimen of manhood.  A true hero of the ages.  Capable of fame and glory and renown... if he would just see it... and TAKE it... become a great and powerful noble and leader.

 

But, that of course would mean that he would have to separate himself from Rand.  Get away from the Dragon Reborn and his huge presence that was overshadowing Mat's greatness.

 

Mat, of course, has too much respect for himself to want to be a noble.  And, will only reluctantly accept being a leader.

 

But, she kept trying anyway.  Until the night came when her true loyalties forced her to try to kill him.

 

Back before he went out into the wider world on his own, when Perrin was still sheltering under Rand's wing, a young woman attached herself to him.  Her name was Zarine.  Then she decided that no, it was Faile.  Whoever she really is/was, she found Perrin to be a magnificent specimen of manhood.  A true hero of the ages.  Capable of fame and glory and renown... if he would just see it... and TAKE it... become a great and powerful noble and leader.  She got so far under his skin that he married her. 

 

She too felt that he would never be seen for his true worth nor achieve his destined glory so long as he dwelt in Rand's shadow.  Luckily for her, Rand needed him to undertake an independent command.

 

Once she had him to herself, she began pushing her ideas even harder.  A Manor house got built.  Flags were created.  One to bear his personal crest and another to bear the sigil of a lost kingdom.  A kingdom she'd like to see him resurrect.

 

He, of course, has no desire to be a ruler.  Or even a noble.  But, he loves her and so he goes along with her pushing and prodding.

 

Do we see a pattern here?  I thought we did.

 

Now, the questions are:

Does Faile have a higher set of loyalties?

If so, how is this scenario likely to play out this time?

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Wow... that's...interesting.  ;D

 

This paves the way for so many possibilities. If Faile turned out to somehow be a darkfriend, as impossible as it sounds, that would be very, very interesting. It would introduce the whole "she's a darkfriend, but I love her" dilemma for Perrin. And we can't forget the fact that Perrin would never be able to kill a woman.

 

Now, it could of course just be that Faile is that kind of woman/person, but now that you mention it, it is very strange and the similarities are obvious.

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Now, the questions are:

Does Faile have a higher set of loyalties?

If so, how is this scenario likely to play out this time?

 

You forget of course that Mat's girlfriend turned nasty only when Mat was going to go out on his own (at Rand's orders, but still out on his own)

 

More genereally, your comparison is way off base. Faile's urgings are what any nobly born woman with ambition would want for her husband. It would also seem contradictory to Faile's actions during the attacks on the Two Rivers where she boldly led the men of the Norther town to the rescue (not exactly the actions of a darkfriend). The difference in Malindrha is that when it appeared that Mat was going to move against the interests of the DO she tried to kill him. The fact that Malindrha had ambition for Mat was not strange or out of place only her attempt to kill Mat revealed her as a darkfriend. So until we see Faile actually do something in favor of the DO your suspicions are just that groundless by the evidence we have been given.

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No, it wasn't because Mat was going off on his own.  Nor was it because Mat was going to do anything against the DO.

 

It was because Rand was going to attack Rahvin rather than Sammael.

 

And, what came out of the Trolloc attack on the Two Rivers?  Prestige and glory for Perrin.  More foundation for a separate kingdom.  More fuel for a total split from Rand.

 

Recall Min's viewings.  It's only when both Mat and Perrin are with Rand that the sparks of light are dense enough and numerous enough to overwhelm the enveloping Darkness.  Anything that drives a wedge, even potentially, between them furthers the Dark's cause.

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OH MY CREATOR...... some one else on these forums that doesnt think that Faile is the scum of the earth and should be ground into an nonexistant dust. I am truly amaized.

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She's not my favorite character, but I don't see her as evil, just ambitious for herself and her husband, and jealous to a fault.

 

I wonder where she gets that from?? <cough>Mommy</cough>

 

I have no wish for her to die, except if an interesting plotline could develop that way.

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From Book 2, the Forsaken have been demanding the death of the ta'veren with the exception of Rand later on.

 

So Faile is not a DF (how unfortunate).

 

Also, I would have expected Melindrha to have killed Mat sooner due to the muder-the-ta'veren instruction. Not sure why she didn't.

 

 

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I do not think a captured Faile would have been left to die by Galina under the house if she were a darkfriend.

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DFs don't have "Darkfriend" tatooed on their foreheads.  Nor do they go around revealing themselves to others.  Each person is supposed to know no more than two others.  That's how they protect their secrecy and safety.  Galina really had no way of knowing whether Faile was Dark or not.

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That would be a most interesting plot development, the whole "screw the world to save Faile" thing would come to a head then.  I don't think she is a darkfriend.

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Wow, there seems to be a big anti-Faile campaign around here! Maybe I shouldn't say she's one of my favorite characters lol...

 

I definitely don't want to find out she's a darkfriend, but I don't have the evidence to eliminate the possibility absolutely.

 

I don't think Robert Jordan wrote her and Melindhra to be similar characters with that in mind. If he wrote so much similarity into Perrin and Mat's lives, they would lose their individuality as characters, and that would not be a good thing, from a writer's standpoint. He has spent so much time making each of his characters real and individual that I don't think he'd do that. I think Faile is just doing what's in her nature. She's ambitious and loves her husband, and wants everyone to put him on the pedestal that she does. She wants him to get the recognition she thinks he deserves, and knows he won't go after it himself. (Yes, I like Perrin too. So there!)

 

As for the Forsaken and Darkfriends all being out to murder the three ta'veren...not all of them are. And not every single one would have the orders, as it takes time to pass them along, especially with the limited means of communication present in such a medieval setting. Also, some of the Forsaken might choose not to pass those orders to certain individuals in their command, for whatever reason. I remember orders to let Rand, at least, live--for now.

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And, what came out of the Trolloc attack on the Two Rivers?  Prestige and glory for Perrin.  More foundation for a separate kingdom.  More fuel for a total split from Rand.

 

 

Except that if she was a Darkfriend Faile would have let the Trollics kill Pewrrin. If her higher loyalty is to the DO (the definition of a Darkfriend) then why help rescue Perrin?  If you need the Three Amigos at TG for the light to have a chance to win (and I agree with this theory) then if Perrin dies at the Two Rivers the DO is guaranteed victory. Thus if Faile was a Darkfriend she would not have attempted to rescue Perrin and the fact that she did argues strongly that whatever her failings Faile is no darkfriend.

 

Also on a more general point I would reassert the argument that Faile's actions are consistent with an ambitous noblewoman who wants her mate to become a leader in his own right. That Faile wanted to get Perrin away from Rand when they were all in the Great Stone is easily explained. Rand is the Dragon Reborn, destined to break the World. He is also the reincarnation of LTT who killed not only all his kin but all who he loved. She does not know Rand well and at least for the first 8 books the assertion that Perrin (and Mat) have to be with Rand at TG while clear to us was not necessarily clear to those like Faile who only knew some of the prophecies and Viewings. Was she being selfish in wanting to "rescue" Perrin" from his association from Rand, possibly. But, thats a long way from showing she is a Darkfriend.

 

The WOT is replete with actors (even the most noble) making decisions based on partial or faulty information or reacting based not on total logic but out of their owned biased preconcieved notions of who the world really is. They do this because they are human. The fact that you dislike Faile makes it easy to read into her actions Dark motivations. However, the information we have been given shows Faile to be a rather strongheaded, ambitous young woman (teenager) who in reality is not very sophisticated (she expects people to act based on her cultural norms and gets upset when they don't). It should be also noted that having her mother and Tenobia as role models Faile actually turned out to rather well.

 

All things considered Faile is at least as good as Egwene and Nyneave and head and shoulders above the dizzy Elayne. She is not up to par with Ave but then what female character under the age of 30 is? Actually I put her at a par with Berlain (sp) for having her head screwed on right. That"s RRight, I actually like Faile. She's no Tuon but then again she has more hair.

 

 

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From Book 2, the Forsaken have been demanding the death of the ta'veren with the exception of Rand later on.

 

So Faile is not a DF (how unfortunate).

 

Also, I would have expected Melindrha to have killed Mat sooner due to the muder-the-ta'veren instruction. Not sure why she didn't

 

Not necessarily.  There was no general kill order issued in Book 2.

"Already a bend is forming in the Pattern, one of many points where he who will become the Dragon may be turned to my service.  Must be turned!  Better that he serve me alive than dead, but alive or dead, serve me he must and will!  These three you must know, for each is a thread in the pattern I mean to weave, and it will be up to you to see that they are placed as I command.  Study them well that you will know them."

 

We don't even know the entirety of the orders Bors was given, but killing any of them wasn't part of what we do know.  We know nothing of those orders the others were given, but the general and public orders given to all did not include killing any of the three.

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I dont think Faile is a darkfriend, I think she's something much, much more dangerous.

 

 

Don't tell anyone.

 

 

 

 

 

I think she's a saldean woman...

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Not necessarily.  There was no general kill order issued in Book 2.

 

There were multiple attempts on Mat's life in Book 3 and there was an attempt on Perrin's life in Book 11. All are suspected darkfriend attempts.

There may have been more that I can't recall.

 

So I guess its pretty much clear that there were orders to kill them. In Book 11 Moridin clearly want Rand alive but the others dead. I believe that this order stands ever since Book 6 after the set of commands from the DO was delivered to the Forsaken by Demandred. I have nothing to back this up but during and after book 6, the Forsaken work systematically with specific goals.

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The general order to kill Mat and Perrin doesn't come until the kaffe klatsch in KoD.

"Perrin Aybara and Mat Cauthon,"  Semirhage murmured, inspecting the two shapes.  "So that is what they look like.  Who knows, Moridin.  If you had shared this with us before now, they might already have been dead."

 

Moridin's fist came down hard on the arm of his chair.  "Find them!"  Make doubly sure that your followers know their faces.  Find Aybara and Cauthon and kill them!  The Time is coming and they must by dead!"

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I dont think Faile is a darkfriend, I think she's something much, much more dangerous.

 

 

Don't tell anyone.

 

 

 

 

 

I think she's a saldean woman...

 

agreed  ;)

 

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By the time of The Dragon Reborn all of the Forsaken are in play.  We just haven't been introduced to each of them yet.

 

Each of them is playing his or her own game.  Each of them has their own set of followers.

 

One thing they can all be expected to know is that The Horn of Valere is a key to success at TG.  None of them can be sure who sounded it.

"If I could make it so that only you and I knew, " she said coldly.  "I would.  The more people know a thing, the more the knowledge spreads, even with the best will.  Most of the world believes the Horn of Valere is only legend, and those who know better believe one of the Hunters has yet to find it.  But Shayol Ghul knows it has been found, and that means at least some Darkfriends know.  But they do not know where it is, and, if the Light shines on us, they do not know you sounded it.  Do you really want Darkfriends coming after you?  Halfmen, or other Shadowspawn?  They want the Horn.  You must know that.  It will work as well for the Shadow as for the Light.  But if it is to work for them, they must take you, or kill you.  Do you want to risk that?"

 

So, all the greedy Forsaken are out to get their mitts on the Horn and use it to further their private aims.  Some will try to capture Mat and Perrin hoping to turn them and secure use of the Horn that way.  Others will just try to kill both, letting the possessor use it personally.  Lanfear has already made her own personal pitch to Mat. Graendal would probably sooner capture and compel.  Asmo is just too much of a nit to be a player here.  Semi has her hands full with the Seanchan and is on the other side of the world, anyway.  Aginor and Balthamel are already on the sidelines.  Ishy just wants them all tracked.

 

Sam, probably Mesaana, Rahvin, Bel'al, maybe even Demandred are unlikely to be as genteel or indirect.  Moggy always uses surrogates, and she'd probably just as soon kill as anything else.  Greymen, with their ability to be invisible in plain sight would seem to fit her persona best.  But that may not mean anything, either.

 

So that's your list of suspects for who's behind the attempts on both of their lives.  It's probably a combination of several of them.  Mesaana seems most likely for the attempts within Tar Valon.  Any of the others for those outside TV.

 

At this point Ishy hasn't yet been made King Rat.  So his plans and wishes about Mat and Perrin wouldn't carry much weight with the others yet.

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Except that if she was a Darkfriend Faile would have let the Trollics kill Pewrrin. If her higher loyalty is to the DO (the definition of a Darkfriend) then why help rescue Perrin?

 

Nobody said she doesn't like Perrin.  Nobody said she wants him dead.

 

Refer to Bors scene at the beginning of Book 2.  DF have been promised power and immortality just like the Forsaken.  Just like the Forsaken each of them has their own ideas about how they want that to work out.  She wants to  be a queen, and she needs a king.  Perrin is suitable for a consort.  So, if she can accomplish her goal without killing him or seeing him killed, why not?

 

If she can keep him separated from Rand, fill him sufficiently full of her desire for power and glory, turn him to the Dark, then she gets to have her cake and eat it, too.  And, that's really what all DF are after.

 

Assuming, of course that she is Dark.  The circumstances don't provide any real proof yet, but they are suggestive that Faile is somebody who needs to be watched very skeptically.

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