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nashdude

The Song, Chora Trees, and Tarmon Gai'don

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I posted on this once before, and figured now would be a good time to bring it up again. In my opinion, the Song that the Tinkers are looking for will definitely be part of permanently sealing the Bore. RJ planted too many hints concerning the Song and its importance. Also, he placed great significance on the Chora tree. It seems---and has seemed, from the "singing" scene during Age of Legends to the Da'shain Aiel's commission to keep the Chora alive, and on down to today---to be very important, but RJ never expressed WHY it's important. I think, in some way, the Chora will play a vital role in sealing the Bore.

 

On a hunch, I did a little digging on the Chora tree, and this is what I found...

 

1) The Chora leaf is a trefoil, which also happens to be the symbol of the Godhead in Christianity---Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Given RJ's propensity for using religion and popular mythology in WoT, I think it would be perfectly in keeping with his style to use the trefoil symbol as a mark of Randland's salvation as well. Incidentally, other notable trefoils include the three-leaf clover and the trefoil knot (the simplest nontrivial knot in the branch of mathematics called Knot Theory)

 

2) Avendesora, the last Chora tree, seems to exude a calming and healing atmosphere, which would seem to lend to "healing" the Bore. At the time of the Bore's opening, the world apparently had many Choras. Some saplings survived with the Da'shain Aiel. Now, as the DO touches the world in greater and greater ways, Avendesora in Rhuidean is the only Chora left. Is there a connection?

 

Don't get me wrong. I believe that the OP will be critical in TG. But for some reason, I just can't shake the feeling that the Chora and the Song will as well.

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I think that this is a nice theory and i would very much love to see it happen but i dont think that it will. not in the way you are expecting. i guess it comes down to the singing itself. The Tinkers can never find the song in my opinion. They are looking for a song that does not exist. The so called Song was a Talent, an amalgamtion of the various races and the power inherent in them. Ogier, human and Nym working together singing a song. We see a glimpse of this Song in the Tree-singing of Lioal. It  think his song was described as sounding like the earth itself, or something to that affect. this leads me to believe that the Song does not have words, but is something that comes from deep inside, it is not a conscious thing. Its like Loial's song but 1000 times more potent.

 

There is also the theory of lews therin, as Lord of the Morning, would sing in each morning as the sun rose. This would lend itself to the theory that Rand will sing it shut, should influence of LTT be strong enough that he would remember the song. Possible during the eclipse that is supposed to happen and when he is singing the sun will come out again. thats meging many theories but it may be possible. i may think more on that. anyway thats my opinions.

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Just totally out of left field, with no proof or even hints to make me think this may be true...

 

The singing, with a cutting from Avendasora on the bore, the remaining Tinkers, Ogier and Aiel and Rand with some kind of modern day 100 Companions singing the Tree over the bore...I dont know why I thought of this...I certainly have no reason for it lol...just some random thoughts. I figure if it were up to me...obviously the seals don't last forever I would try something new  ;)

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Okay, I'll throw in a few ideas to this mix.

 

The first thing is the idea that the male choden Kal will be used in the sealing of the bore.  RJ was once asked why the female access key melted and the male one did not.  Instead of giving an answer he instead gave a RAFO.  Since it would have made sense for the male key to suffer a similar fate to the female key, I infer from this exchange that the male Choden Kal still has relevance to the story, and to my mind, the best place for its relevance to appear is within the context of the Last Battle.

 

The second thing that I'll add to this is an explaination, as I see it, of the role of the Voice.  According to the BWB,

sources are not clear concerning whether or not Da'shain Aiel could channel, but they do agree that the Aiel could often enhance channeling, as when adding their voices to the seed singing of the Ogier.
  This indicates that the role of the Voice, was to enhance the use of the OP.  This would explain why they were the traditional servants of the Aes Sedai, as every Aes Sedai would have their own coterie of living breathing angreal.

 

Now this might not be more than interesting trivia except that there are indications that Rand does possess the talent for the Voice.  This is evidenced by his reactions to Lioal's singing.  Both at the EotW and in the portal stone world, Rand witnesses tree singing, and feels a strange pull towards it.  Granted, treesinging is not the same thing as the voice, but given the apparent affinity between the Voice and Ogier singing evidenced in the Aiel history columns, Rand's reactions can be satisfactorily answered by Rand's possession of the Voice Talent.  Further I would suggest that there is an indication that at least a certain percentage of the modern Aiel also possess this talent.  I find it curious that RJ worked it into Aiel culture that grown aiel men do not sing at all, unless they are singing battle songs.  If you assume that the talent for the Voice is genetic, then it makes sense that the talent would only appear in those who's ancestors possessed those same genes.  Since the Aiel have been an entirely insular culture since the AOL, (with the exception of the break away tinkers,)  it would explain why the talent for the voice has not spread itself throughout Randland's genetics in the intervening 3,000 years.  As to why the Tinkers did not spread this trait, I can only guess, but perhaps the talent is rare enough that they did not end up taking any singers with them, or maybe they did, but the interchange between the tinkers and other societies had diluted the genetic pool for the Voice gene...

 

 

There is another link between the Aiel and the Voice that should be explored as well.  And that is the Aiel Prophecies about TG.  in TGH CH. 28 the following Aiel prophecy is relayed to us,

"When the Trollocs come out of the Blight again, we will leave the Three-fold Land and take back our places of old."

Of course their places of old was to serve Aes Sedai, specifically the Dragon.  This seems to have been be true already to the extent that they already follow Rand, but if you look at is as meaning that their old places were as peaceful amplifiers of the OP, that has yet to occur, were they to recall their talent for the Voice however, they would.  This seems to be supported by a later Aiel prophecy.

Prophecy says when the Stone of Tear falls, we will leave the Three-fold Land at last. It says we will be changed, and find again what was ours, and was lost
  Of course the Aiel have lost so much of their identity over the last 3,000 years and to find their lost identity would almost of a necesity require them to rediscover their potential talent for the Voice.

 

Thes two lines of thought of course lead me to ask, what could be accomplished with the male choden kal if the remaining aiel were to band together and help to focus that power by means of the voice.  I found the scene where Rand first sees the actual choden kal statue to be illuminating in this regard.  When rand first sees the crystal globe, the void forms unbidden, and Saidin begins to "sing" to him.  There are numerous references to singing and the song of saidin in this small passage, and when it seems that he is irresistibly pulled towards channeling, it is his aiel heritage that is dredged up by his subconscious that saves him.  I think this scene is the foreshadowing of TG that we will be looking back to after we have all finished AMoL.

 

As for the chora trees, I've not found evidence that they will play a part in TG, but I will say that there are specific instances where a op construct was used in conjuntion with Aiel singing.  The nym are described in the BWB as contructs of the OP that use the OP to grow things.  If one were to define Avendelsora as a OP construct for the promotion of peace, then I think that the focusing and enhancement of this power by means of the Voice could be a powerful tool in the upcoming battle.  Personally, I think that the clues that RJ left us that the greenman might have survived in some limited capacity would also allow the use of the voice to interact with the nym characteristic of growing living things.  If you are inclined to view the pattern as a living thing, then you could see how several thousand aiel and ogier could use a variant of the Song to sing the Bore shut while Rand uses an enhanced choden kal to keep the DO from screwing up the choir.

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I like it.  ( of course I want to like it - it agrees with many of my own thoughts )

 

I've long thought that things that get mentioned in the Prologue to The Eye of the World but are never really explained further will demonstrate their importance during TG.  Singing and the Voice being but two.

 

I've also thought that Jordan had a greater purpose behind the survival of Avendesora than just to provide a shady place to sit while gazing at the square in Rhuidean.

 

The lions sing, and the hills take flight.

The moon by day, and the sun by night.

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I think Clog articulated my thoughts better than i did! Rand's "pull" towards loial's treesinging is a throwback to the Lord of the Morning theory i think. this makes a lot of sense and the possibilites of the choedan kal, which i hadnt considered at all, are huge. the amount of power that could be handled by rand with the choedan kal, some companions, all amplified by a thousand tree singers, is frankly astonishing. there is little that could not be achieved with that.

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I am quite certain the song the tinkers are looking for is just a symbol for everything they lost when thhe AOL ended, and not an actual song.

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Agreed Maj,  I think that the "finding" of the Song will manifest itself as a reappearance of the talent called the Voice on a massive scale.

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Agreed Maj,  I think that the "finding" of the Song will manifest itself as a reappearance of the talent called the Voice on a massive scale.

 

Well, that is not at all what I meant. When I said symbol for what they have lost, I meant more what they had and what they were in the AOL in general.

 

Rediscovering the Voice would make very little sense, especially with so little time left for introducing new elements to the story. And even if the talent reappeared, noone would know what to do with it.

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Rediscovering the Voice would make very little sense, especially with so little time left for introducing new elements to the story. And even if the talent reappeared, noone would know what to do with it.

 

That's the beauty of this idea, it is not introducing a new element, it has already been introduced.  The idea of singing to the land is in the very opening Prophecy, whenever we are about to forget about the Song another band of Tinkers comes along and reminds us of it.  It is already fully fleshed out, all it needs now if for an author to come in and make everything tie together.  I don't doubt for a second that RJ had that type of gotcha moment in him.

 

The bit about knowing to know what to do with the Voice has been answered as well.  From the POV's of Rand and the AoL Aiel it came naturally, and had no need for extensive training.  Young pubescent boys could do it with no training.  Even if the Aiel as a culture dust off their vocal chords and find themselves a little rusty, I'm sure they'll get the hang of it soon enough.

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It has been introduced as something strongly connected to channeling. Unfortunatly, the risk of channeling disappearing from humanity during the next Age is quite great. And the only example we have of singing actually doing something was when Ogier and Nyms where involved. Unfortunatly, the last Nym is dead, and the Ogier will pack their bags and leave after TG.

 

Of course, it would be quite ilarious to see Rand all of a sudden stand up, and start singing 'My Way' ;D

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I'm not talking about the prolonged ans sustained resurgence of the Voice, in fact considering the likelyhood of a near extermination of the Aiel as an ethnicity, I'm suggesting the opposite.  A brief and powerful revisiting of the Voice, to seal the bore, and then the talent and channeling and the ogier can all go away...

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I'm not talking about the prolonged ans sustained resurgence of the Voice, in fact considering the likelyhood of a near extermination of the Aiel as an ethnicity, I'm suggesting the opposite.  A brief and powerful revisiting of the Voice, to seal the bore, and then the talent and channeling and the ogier can all go away...

 

I was thinking that the finding of the Voice for one particular moment in time when it has been lost for three thousand years was a little too unlikely but then I realised that Rand, Mat and Perrin will all be in the immediate vicinity (probably) and that might be the deciding factor in this spontaneous manifestation. It seems like that might be something RJ would do as up until now I dont think we've really seen a manifestation of Ta'veren power that turned out well, at least not on the scale of things that have gone badly i.e. dark bubbles of evil.

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I'm not talking about the prolonged ans sustained resurgence of the Voice, in fact considering the likelyhood of a near extermination of the Aiel as an ethnicity, I'm suggesting the opposite.  A brief and powerful revisiting of the Voice, to seal the bore, and then the talent and channeling and the ogier can all go away...

 

That is about as likely as rand stumbling upon a sa'angreal more powerful than the CK (before the female melted).

 

I was thinking that the finding of the Voice for one particular moment in time when it has been lost for three thousand years was a little too unlikely but then I realised that Rand, Mat and Perrin will all be in the immediate vicinity (probably) and that might be the deciding factor in this spontaneous manifestation. It seems like that might be something RJ would do as up until now I dont think we've really seen a manifestation of Ta'veren power that turned out well, at least not on the scale of things that have gone badly i.e. dark bubbles of evil.

 

We see ta'veren influence being beneficial for the lads in pretty much every single book.

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yeah i know that, i meant on a larger scale. something really huge. everything i can think of has sort of been personal to them, this would be a global thing.

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eol -

 

You've gotta understand, Maj is unwontedly gloomy and negative because he's Swedish.  It's got something to do with too little sunshine during the year and Swede's being raised by reindeer, I think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

running far, far away now.

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If there's one thing Forrest Gump knows, it's how to run.

 

Maj really does have a sense of humor, when he can stop being Eeyore long enough to remember it.  Do a search.  He posted a broadcast of TG as a football (soccer) game by 'the Bruces'.

 

Pretty funny stuff.

 

 

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I'm not talking about the prolonged ans sustained resurgence of the Voice, in fact considering the likelyhood of a near extermination of the Aiel as an ethnicity, I'm suggesting the opposite.  A brief and powerful revisiting of the Voice, to seal the bore, and then the talent and channeling and the ogier can all go away...

 

Musing on the near extermination of the Aiel....if that remnant of a remnant prophecy comes the way we expect then the aiel really do get it the worst out of any people in the history of the pattern. First they get thousands upon thousands of em wiped out trying to turn a male channeler sane, then beyond how many died from the breaking itself they get their people raped, robbed, and massacred throughout the reforming years by anyone who so desires, only to then have their people split 3 ways (jenn aiel, the aiel we know, and tinkers) and now potentially be near exterminated all afresh.....doesn't seem right. Especially since they're hands down my favorite nation of people in the book

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It has been introduced as something strongly connected to channeling. Unfortunatly, the risk of channeling disappearing from humanity during the next Age is quite great. And the only example we have of singing actually doing something was when Ogier and Nyms where involved. Unfortunatly, the last Nym is dead, and the Ogier will pack their bags and leave after TG.

 

Of course, it would be quite ilarious to see Rand all of a sudden stand up, and start singing 'My Way' ;D

 

Not quite.  We have Loial, and through repeated reference other Ogier, as well.  Sung Wood ( remember the staff he made himself during the trek across the mirror world, and his reference to the beds at the Manor in KoD ).  Then there's the Song he sings to strengthen and preserve Someshta's monument tree.  ( which may have also resulted in the Blight receding by ~2 miles ) There's also repeated reference to the unparalleled work done by Ogier stonemasons, which involves Stone Singing.

 

All would have been done long after all of the Nym except Someshta were extinct.

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